Bostic

The new Super looks promising as it now has 5 different screens that you can page through with 4 rows of metrics displayed. I would have preferred more as I use 7 metrics on the main screen of my Edge 500. Their main page lists grade as something that can be displayed however that is not mentioned in the manual. I also don't see how multiple bikes are supported.

I really want to get away from Garmin as it's ridiculous that something from 2010 (Edge 500) has better guts in it than their newer devices. I bought an Edge 520 to replace an aging 500 that had issues with the lower left button and decreasing battery life. Previously before I tried replacing it with a 510 when it was fairly new. Whatever hardware that is in the 500 should have been carried over to newer devices. The grade reading has so much lag, it's useless and the temperature reading is a good 8 to 10 degrees lower than what it actually is. At first I thought it was just me, but glancing over the Garmin forums and DC Rainmakers site, others have the same complaints about it. It appears the new 820 also has the grade reading issue. When you're going max effort for a few minutes up a 14% grade, you want to see that, not 7% and then when you coasting down the other side see the grade jump to 12% then back down.

As a long distance and double century rider, my perfect computer would be the Edge 500 with more battery life and better GPS. Lezyne is pretty close to that now with the Enhanced Super.

Steve B.

If you want it too, which I don't have a use for.

OTOH, Connect does a very good and reliable job keeping track of both my rides as well as swim workouts. It may well be the best program for swimming, Endomondo sucked and I've not found anything as good as Connect, especially as I use the Garmin swim watch which works very well. Plus my Edge 810 has been very reliable, with the ability to create courses in Connect as easy and good as RideWithGPS.


I could see some improvements to Connct, but overall I've been very happy with the system.

dr_lha

Correct, and the same for these devices. They only allow breadcrumb trail type mapping. The Lezynes do support turn-by-turn, which the Bryton's I'm pretty sure don't.

Seattle Forrest

Yeah, this.

I just recently got the HRM-Swim chest strap.

BigPoser

Bryton does have turn by turn in the new 530 and 330 units.

dr_lha

OK, I hadn't spotted this.

Anyone know how Bryton and Lezyne actually implement this?

For example, the ELEMNT right now has turn-by-turn, but it only works if you make the route in RideWithGPS.

deepakvrao

Can you load a map, and see alternative routes etc? Or, is it only a breadcrumb trail like the older Edge 500?

BigPoser

From their website on the 530:

You can plan your trips from Bryton app, follow previous rides from your device history or download .gpx tracks shared from other users. With built in electronic compass, you are always on top of where you are and to which direction you are heading.

Looks promising.

dr_lha

We'll see. The ELEMNT an import GPX and TCX tracks too, but those don't give you turn by turn. RideWithGPS has cue sheet support, I don't think Strava or MapMyRide do, so importing GPX from the latter two sights won't give you TBT, just a breadcrumb trail to follow.

Seattle Forrest

The problem is that GPX files can contain routes, but they can't contain course points, the actual turns that turn-by-turn works off. TCX and FIT files are needed for this; RideWithGPS can make TCX files, I suspect that's what's going on with the Element.

dr_lha

Yep, although right now the ELEMNT can't import a TCX file with course points and use them for TBT, it can only sync with RideWithGPS directly. It's not really clear why this is the case right now, but the ELEMNT's software is being improved literally weekly.

Seattle Forrest

If it's any consolation, my Garmin watch can only parse routes out of FIT and GPX files, but not TCX. Even though (as I understand it) TCX is their format.

(I can do turn by turn from a GPX file, but that creates waypoints instead of course points, so the map gets cluttered with a bunch of left/right points that are meaningless most of the time.)

Drew Eckhardt 

I want maps and Garmin Edge 800 level intelligence (circa August 2010, 6 years ago).

With "turn guidance" enabled, navigation capable Garmins switch to the map screen 0.1 miles before your course changes roads with a big white arrow showing the shape of the turn. It counts down to zero and changes back.

This avoids a number of problems with bread-crumb navigation from .tcx files with embedded <CoursePoint> entries which are just text messages displayed when you reach certain GPS coordinates

• Turn indications after the turn, not before. Although ridewithgps can generate <CoursePoint> entries a configurable distance before turns, it's not reliable unless you push it back far enough things become ambiguous.
• Turns onto the wrong road because there were multiple options (like at 45 and 90 degrees) with poor signs and nothing matching on the screen.
• Turns onto the wrong road because ridewithgps decided a road wiggle was a turn. With no arrow you can assume that's the case.
• Turns with no <CoursePoint> generated and no alert until you stray far enough to trigger an off-course warning. With arrows any time your course transitions to a different road this isn't a problem.

I also need courses with user-specified entries for food and water stops.

Unfortunately, Garmin is the only company doing those things together, and their computers have software problems.

The Wahoo ELEMNT should get there - they have turn by turn and maps, but no navigation yet. Their screen is also easier to see than color Garmins due to better contrast.

When I moved on from my Edge 500 (the lap button only survived 20,000 miles and I wanted maps after making too many wrong turns) I bought an ELEMNT which I returned because it didn't accurately display power, recorded incorrect data, and didn't get turn-by-turn as scheduled before my 30 day return period lapsed. Then I bought an 810 which I returned because it crashed twice in the week I owned it running navigation on my daily 26 mile ride. Finally I ended up with a refurbished 800 which crashes on long rides with navigation, although I can work around that splitting them up into smaller rides joined after the fact.


Good:


Bad. On the display you only get "Left on Big Basin" which is confusing when you're unfamiliar with the area, street signs aren't visible (like after dark), or the street signs don't match the map names (Big Basin is also highway 9).

Seattle Forrest

A "virtual power" phone app has analogous numbers to a power meter, but most people would rather have the PM than the estimate. Similarly, when the performance management chart says I need a specific amount of training stress on a ride I'm about to go on in order to get ready for an event coming up, Strava's goofy math doesn't help me.

dr_lha

I think on-the-fly navigation with the ELEMNT is going to be a stretch. We'll see, the best I see happening is maybe their iPhone app doing it, and pushing it to the ELEMNT when you're riding. They just employed the guy who wrote "EasyRoute" app for the iPhone, so fingers crossed.

Thats said, even what the ELEMNT has now, i.e. actual Maps + breadcrumb trail is better than what the Lezyne GPS have, because being able to see the roads on a map make the TBT and GPX trails much less ambigious.

That said, with the Garmins and Wahoo devices, we're talking about units that are double the price or more than the Lezyne and Bryton GPS units.

memebag

Maybe less training stress would help.

Seattle Forrest

You know what's funny? I have an 800, and a watch that does breadcrumb and turn-by-turn; whenever I want to plan a course and then follow it on the bike, I send it to the watch but not the Edge. The watch vibrates and shows a left arrow and the name of the road (shortly before I get to the turn, then again at the turn), while the 800 shows where I am on the map. Together, they're fantastic.

Here's one of the nav screens on the watch. Shows elevation gained and what's still to come, and the red arrow is the direction I need to go. In this pic it's pretty much pointing ahead on the road.

dr_lha

Strava uses real power when you have a power meter. Virtual power is only when you don't have one. If we're talking about "most people", most people don't have a power meter.

If you're reliant on the numbers produced by TrainingPeaks, Stravas versions of them probably don't help you.

Drew Eckhardt 

Factory refurbished Garmin 800s with new battery and case are $170, and crash less than the newer 810.

dr_lha

Yeah fair enough. Used prices aren't really relevant for feature comparisons though, the companies manufacturing them have to meet a price point, and lower price means less features.

Steve B.

Drew, you do realize you've been bashing the 810 for, months, years ?, based on a weeks usage ?. And some comments of other riders you know who's 810's crash/crashed regularly and how long and how many updates ago was that.

I keep trying to find the endless posts of 810's crashing, and other then the Garmin site, where you expect to find it (but the 800 section doesn't exist, it's that old) I'm not seeing the issues. As well, outside of 2 crashes in the first 4 rides, whose problems I discovered (once with Garmins help) I'm 3 mos. and 50 some odd rides with a rock solid unit.

Would I recommend an ancient 800 refurbished for $190, which is the cheapest I can find it on the web, versus a new 810 for $250 ?. Nope.

GARMIN Bike / Cycling Computer GPS Navigator

Learn me as I'm not getting it.

And I would not be buying a Lezyne for $200 with a B&W screen, or an Elemnt with the same, when you can get a color 810, 520 or 820. Color makes a world of difference, IMO.

deepakvrao

Oh yes, I had said that the 520 is worth it over these units for the ability to load maps, alone. Had forgotten about the colour. Very nice to have colour.

zastolj

I've used the old Mini gps for a year or so. I like it as a simple small thing with no unnecessary bells and whistles. The new mini gps is even cheaper than the old one with more features. Only thing I hate about it is the relatively short battery life, 8 hours. That means I have to remember to recharge it every few days. Next computer will have at least 14 hours, like the new Micro.

Someone asked about the mounts. Lezyne uses its own mounts. They are really secure, durable and easy to use. I've only used the standard mount though.

king_solom0n

Does anyone know when they are going to be released?

chaadster

For Lezyne, it relies on your phone to do TBT nav. They have an app called Lezyne Ally, which is necessary for TBT, and I'm not sure if it is the link/translator between a nav app on your phone (e.g. Apple Maps, Waze, etc.) or if it is, itself, a nav app which runs on your phone and spits out to the head unit.

Either way, this is what I'm liking best about these new Lezyne units, because just about any phone nav app is so much easier to use than having to go to a third party site like RidewithGps or whatever, and export a route to the head unit, or, if the head unit has native TBT nav, rely on that. Garmin's UI is just awkward to me, whereas most phone apps (at least for iPhone) seem very straightforward. If that's because the chips and other hardware in phones are so much more powerful than cycling computers, I don't know, but it seems to be the case in my experience, so streamlining the process for getting TBT on the head unit display would be great, and I always have the phone with me anyway.