Is car-free becoming mainstream?
#26
Sophomoric Member
Around here they just drive without them...
Seriously, nearly a third of the vehicles on the roads in NC on any given day are being operated illegally. No insurance, no drivers' license, improper registration (expired or not on the vehicle it was issued for), no current inspection.
The US is headed for a point where something is going to have to give. Baby Boomers are getting older and living longer, they grew up driving and will drive until they either kill themselves or the keys get taken away. Unfortunately in many states it is all but impossible to stop someone from driving.
There is some movement towards more self contained neighborhoods in some parts of the country. But around here they are still building suburgatory, lollipop neighborhoods with unsustainable density. The county I live in is one of the fastest growing micropolitan areas in the country. Population has nearly doubled since 1995, and is expected to continue to grow. Average commute for people in our county is 17.6 miles. Population density is 215. No county wide mass transit, minimal to no cycling or walking infrastructure.
Aaron
Seriously, nearly a third of the vehicles on the roads in NC on any given day are being operated illegally. No insurance, no drivers' license, improper registration (expired or not on the vehicle it was issued for), no current inspection.
The US is headed for a point where something is going to have to give. Baby Boomers are getting older and living longer, they grew up driving and will drive until they either kill themselves or the keys get taken away. Unfortunately in many states it is all but impossible to stop someone from driving.
There is some movement towards more self contained neighborhoods in some parts of the country. But around here they are still building suburgatory, lollipop neighborhoods with unsustainable density. The county I live in is one of the fastest growing micropolitan areas in the country. Population has nearly doubled since 1995, and is expected to continue to grow. Average commute for people in our county is 17.6 miles. Population density is 215. No county wide mass transit, minimal to no cycling or walking infrastructure.
Aaron
Around here we're seeing some infill development, but strong pushback against a BRT system that would help to tie all that development together. The next couple years is going to be very interesting!
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#27
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,719
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Liked 2,496 Times
in
1,287 Posts
My 18 year old grandson, who lives with me, says he's in no hurry to get a DL. His two friends who hang out at the house are also DL-free. They say it's too much of a hassle to get a DL, which sounds a lot like the most common reason from the survey I mentioned above--"too busy or not enough time to get a driver’s license (37%)."
Here in Canada a drivers license is a very important piece of ID. It also makes getting a job a lot easier...Then again, I also realize that some people are in no hurry to get a job because they are "too busy" to get a job and it's too much of a hassle to write a resume and apply for a job...The truth is that, there are no disadvantages to having a drivers license, it makes life easier.
#28
Standard Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,350
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Liked 1,055 Times
in
524 Posts
Look at all the "trends" that were once fringe activities and are now main-stream; yoga, organic foods and natural, preventive medicine. Love takes time.
__________________
"Chim-chiminey, chim-chiminey, chim-chim cheroo"
"Chim-chiminey, chim-chiminey, chim-chim cheroo"
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
What a cool word! It had me scurrying for my online dictionary:
Suburgatory: Life in the suburbs that is very layed [sic] back and boring.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/sub...37/Suburgatory
Suburgatory: Life in the suburbs that is very layed [sic] back and boring.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/sub...37/Suburgatory
#31
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
15 Posts
What a cool word! It had me scurrying for my online dictionary:
Suburgatory: Life in the suburbs that is very layed [sic] back and boring.
Definition of Suburgatory | New Word Suggestion | Collins Dictionary
Suburgatory: Life in the suburbs that is very layed [sic] back and boring.
Definition of Suburgatory | New Word Suggestion | Collins Dictionary
FWIW there was a US television show by that name that ran for 3 seasons.
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Hmmm... not MY definition! I consider the definition to be more of a paved purgatory with limited or no allowance for pedestrians or bicycles, not to mention lack of mass transit. Places where the front door of the store is 1/4 mile from the road across a parking lot. Stores are so far apart that walking is unpleasant, parking lots are isolated with no cut through for pedestrian or cyclists... and the list goes on.
FWIW there was a US television show by that name that ran for 3 seasons.
Aaron
FWIW there was a US television show by that name that ran for 3 seasons.
Aaron
#33
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
15 Posts
One bus stop shy of...
Aaron
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#34
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,118
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Liked 1,648 Times
in
1,110 Posts
Voluntary Car Free Living and eschewing a Driver's License Free may be considered "mainstream" by people who consider themselves Ethical Dirtbags.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 11-20-16 at 10:23 AM.
#35
In the right lane
Thread Starter
My 18 year old grandson, who lives with me, says he's in no hurry to get a DL. His two friends who hang out at the house are also DL-free. They say it's too much of a hassle to get a DL, which sounds a lot like the most common reason from the survey I mentioned above--"too busy or not enough time to get a driver’s license (37%)."
These boys aren't really carfree, since they get a lot of rides from parents and even teachers. The one boy is moving in with us and he likes to walk a lot. He says my grandson will get a lot more walking when he moves in! I used to ride a lot with my grandson, but he almost never uses his bike any more, even though my son and I have made the effort to always keep a running bike there for him.
These boys aren't really carfree, since they get a lot of rides from parents and even teachers. The one boy is moving in with us and he likes to walk a lot. He says my grandson will get a lot more walking when he moves in! I used to ride a lot with my grandson, but he almost never uses his bike any more, even though my son and I have made the effort to always keep a running bike there for him.
This morning I was at the grocery store and recall how 10 years ago I would be the only bike parked... this morning I couldn't get a place to lock up... I'm not sure who owns all the bikes. But it tells me there are a lot of people riding on this cold Sunday morning..
At work, we have the same problem... there is an issue with *some* of the bike being abandoned (I think one at my favorite lock-up spot...) but there are quite a few more just ordinary commuters who make the trip every day...
#36
Senior Member
Cool. Most of the time my bike is the only one in the rack at the stores I ride to and it makes me kind of sad. I take solace in the fact that there are always bikes in the racks at the stores I walk to. I walk to the ones that are closer to my house, so I live among people who ride, or at least ride more than is typical hereabouts.
#37
Senior Member
The US is headed for a point where something is going to have to give. Baby Boomers are getting older and living longer, they grew up driving and will drive until they either kill themselves or the keys get taken away. Unfortunately in many states it is all but impossible to stop someone from driving.
These people are all older than us Boomers, but not by much. I fear this is only going to get worse. My fear is tempered only a small amount by my belief that we Boomers are better people than the generation that preceded us (but much, much worse than the ones that have followed us, imo).
#38
Sophomoric Member
Here in Canada a drivers license is a very important piece of ID. It also makes getting a job a lot easier...Then again, I also realize that some people are in no hurry to get a job because they are "too busy" to get a job and it's too much of a hassle to write a resume and apply for a job...The truth is that, there are no disadvantages to having a drivers license, it makes life easier.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#40
Sophomoric Member
A couple of days back, the local newspaper's web page had three stories about roadway incidents. An 80-year-old who killed someone while driving the wrong way on the freeway four years ago had just died in prison (very difficult to do where he did it). A 77-year-old who went for a drive was found dead in a ditch he had driven into. Finally, a 76-year-old put a moped driver in the hospital when she violated his right-of-way and turned right into him.
These people are all older than us Boomers, but not by much. I fear this is only going to get worse. My fear is tempered only a small amount by my belief that we Boomers are better people than the generation that preceded us (but much, much worse than the ones that have followed us, imo).
These people are all older than us Boomers, but not by much. I fear this is only going to get worse. My fear is tempered only a small amount by my belief that we Boomers are better people than the generation that preceded us (but much, much worse than the ones that have followed us, imo).
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#41
Sophomoric Member
#42
Newbie
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Israel
Posts: 56
Bikes: 2016 Marin mount vision 7. 2010 Marin San Rafael.
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Here in Israel the prices (of cars and gas) are much higher than in the US and still the car sellings are just increasing every year (and so the traffic jams and accidents..).
On the other hand I see more people riding to work/school and much more people riding on weekends for fun.
On the other hand I see more people riding to work/school and much more people riding on weekends for fun.
#43
Sophomoric Member
Here in Israel the prices (of cars and gas) are much higher than in the US and still the car sellings are just increasing every year (and so the traffic jams and accidents..).
On the other hand I see more people riding to work/school and much more people riding on weekends for fun.
On the other hand I see more people riding to work/school and much more people riding on weekends for fun.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#44
Newbie
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Israel
Posts: 56
Bikes: 2016 Marin mount vision 7. 2010 Marin San Rafael.
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
The public transit is not much attractive here but in the last years there are a huge investments in this area.
I live in Jerusalem so my commute is hilly and not much people commuting here on bikes but in Tel Aviv (on the shore) about 15% of the transition is by bike.
#45
Lucille
I don't think elderly people keep driving because they're bad people. I think they often don't realize that they've lost their skills, or they're pretty much in denial about this sad state of affairs. They don't want to lose their independence--which wouldn't be an issue if we had better accommodations for non-auto travel in our communities.
Part of maintaining independence comes from an ability to make my own decisions- the number of people using cycles at the local grocery store is very small, but I do not let that stop me from doing it. And my grocery shopping bike is a Schwinn Meridian, bought at Walmart, and there is considerable anti Walmart bike sentiment here.
I do think that if smaller towns such as the one I live in had public transportation available there might be far fewer vehicles, but many small towns and large cities as well find themselves in financial crunches these days, and I'm thinking that might affect the initiation of public transportation services.
#46
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
15 Posts
I don't think elderly people keep driving because they're bad people. I think they often don't realize that they've lost their skills, or they're pretty much in denial about this sad state of affairs. They don't want to lose their independence--which wouldn't be an issue if we had better accommodations for non-auto travel in our communities.
My dad quit driving when his vision started going bad, mom quit after she was involved in a wreck. We kind of let her come to her own conclusion on that one, but the rest of the family had already decided she WASN'T going to be driving anymore.
Unfortunately options are limited. In the case of my parents, cycling is a no go, mom has never ridden a bicycle and dad can't see well enough to do so safely. Currently they are using GoGoGrandparent, which leverages Lyft and Uber for people without smart phones. Dad rides the city buses to get groceries and go to the Y to work out. For doctor appointments they use the para-transit, which unfortunately has been a bit hit or miss. There isn't a whole lot within walking distance of where they live anymore. When they moved to that area back in the mid 70's there was everything you could need within 3-4 blocks, dry grocer, butcher shop, bank, drug store, etc. Now it has all moved several miles out.
Mom walks, but can't do it for long distances due to a previous back injury. We borrowed a Segway for her to try, the jury is still out on that...
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#47
Sophomoric Member
I think the average work commute is about 45 minutes. Most of the work places are in the center of the country (Tel Aviv and around) but the apartments are very expensive so a lot of people have to drive from the suburbs.
The public transit is not much attractive here but in the last years there are a huge investments in this area.
I live in Jerusalem so my commute is hilly and not much people commuting here on bikes but in Tel Aviv (on the shore) about 15% of the transition is by bike.
The public transit is not much attractive here but in the last years there are a huge investments in this area.
I live in Jerusalem so my commute is hilly and not much people commuting here on bikes but in Tel Aviv (on the shore) about 15% of the transition is by bike.
You know, the US is kind of the opposite. Housing is usually cheaper near the city centers, but a lot of people prefer living in the more expensive suburbs. Either way, you end up with people doing a lot more driving than they really need to or want to. It was such a mistake to place work sites so far from home sites--although it seemed like a good idea at the time.
(And yes, I do know that in some American cities the situation is more like Israel with expensive housing nearer the city centers.)
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#48
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
15 Posts
I gave up my car because my hearing is poor and that led to a couple of near accident driving incidents. I am fortunate to have one of my sons who is very knowledgeable about biking so he helps with bike questions and issues. I have 3 cycles including the trike I use to get groceries.
Part of maintaining independence comes from an ability to make my own decisions- the number of people using cycles at the local grocery store is very small, but I do not let that stop me from doing it. And my grocery shopping bike is a Schwinn Meridian, bought at Walmart, and there is considerable anti Walmart bike sentiment here.
I do think that if smaller towns such as the one I live in had public transportation available there might be far fewer vehicles, but many small towns and large cities as well find themselves in financial crunches these days, and I'm thinking that might affect the initiation of public transportation services.
Part of maintaining independence comes from an ability to make my own decisions- the number of people using cycles at the local grocery store is very small, but I do not let that stop me from doing it. And my grocery shopping bike is a Schwinn Meridian, bought at Walmart, and there is considerable anti Walmart bike sentiment here.
I do think that if smaller towns such as the one I live in had public transportation available there might be far fewer vehicles, but many small towns and large cities as well find themselves in financial crunches these days, and I'm thinking that might affect the initiation of public transportation services.
We had a bridal, pageant and formal wear shop in a small town of ~10,000. There was no mass transit, the town was only about 6 square miles and for the most part laid out on a grid, so getting around by bike is fairly easy. There were exactly 3 of us that rode bikes regularly to get places. They did a huge down town revitalization plan, and spent nearly $1.2 million... to add parking lots and make main street easier for cars to get down. Because people won't come downtown if they can't find parking. In addition they gave WM huge tax breaks to build a massive strip mall on the outskirts of town. Seven years later the tax breaks expired, WM wanted them extended, the city said no, so they closed up and moved 2 more miles down the road to a different town that gave them more tax breaks. We no longer have that shop, I was in the downtown area of that town the other day and there are fewer businesses there than when we were there, but they have added 4 new turn lanes out on the edge of town where the big box stores are.
Until people wake up, and zoning laws are put in place to stop "free parking", it will continue.
Nothing wrong with some of the WM bikes, just have to go over them with a fine tooth comb to make sure they are assembled correctly and have grease in the proper places. Some are better than others.
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Except that buying them helps to encourage this type of behavior :
They gave WM huge tax breaks to build a massive strip mall on the outskirts of town. Seven years later the tax breaks expired, WM wanted them extended, the city said no, so they closed up and moved 2 more miles down the road to a different town that gave them more tax breaks. We no longer have that shop, I was in the downtown area of that town the other day and there are fewer businesses there than when we were there, but they have added 4 new turn lanes out on the edge of town where the big box stores are.
#50
Lucille