Shimano Alfine 11 SHIFTER
03-14-17, 01:17 PM
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Shimano Alfine 11 SHIFTER
First post! (well, second, but first got lost in broken connection)
I have a problem with my shimano alfine 11 shifters. Can't find anyone else who have written about this, so wanted to hear of anyone has similar experiences. I have a Cuba Editor 2016, which I use for winter commuting in Norway. So a lot of sleet, snow, salt, and all the **** that accumulates in the road when no rain is washing it for months. All of this led me to get a bike with Shimano Alfine 11 IHG, Alfine 11 rapidfire shifters, and gates carbon drive. The hub itself has been fine, though of course I also struggle to find, and stay in, the sweet spot of cable tension. It seems like temperature has an effect, at least the belt tension drops when it's very cold (-5 celsius and colder).
My main problem is with the shifter. The last few months no fewer than three springs that push the pawl into the notch on the ligther-shift (operated by thumb) have broken. The first time I opened it up to clean, as per Internet advice. However, it was as clean as ever. Then I found the broken little spring. The guarantee was still valid, so I got a new one. Then it broke again the same day, and I got yet another one (and some head shaking and evil eyes from the shop for free). Then it lasted 3-4 months before breaking again today. I don't abuse the shifter, but since it's hilly here I change gears all the time. It might be because I use thick gloves, which means I do occasionally slip the shifter, or inadvertely push the up and down shifters at the same time. However, once the pawl engage in the notch there should be no tension on the spring, even if the cable had become stuck or I slip the shifter. Anyone else having experienced this? Should I get yet another alfine shifter? Or are there better alternatives that would work?
Thanks!
I have a problem with my shimano alfine 11 shifters. Can't find anyone else who have written about this, so wanted to hear of anyone has similar experiences. I have a Cuba Editor 2016, which I use for winter commuting in Norway. So a lot of sleet, snow, salt, and all the **** that accumulates in the road when no rain is washing it for months. All of this led me to get a bike with Shimano Alfine 11 IHG, Alfine 11 rapidfire shifters, and gates carbon drive. The hub itself has been fine, though of course I also struggle to find, and stay in, the sweet spot of cable tension. It seems like temperature has an effect, at least the belt tension drops when it's very cold (-5 celsius and colder).
My main problem is with the shifter. The last few months no fewer than three springs that push the pawl into the notch on the ligther-shift (operated by thumb) have broken. The first time I opened it up to clean, as per Internet advice. However, it was as clean as ever. Then I found the broken little spring. The guarantee was still valid, so I got a new one. Then it broke again the same day, and I got yet another one (and some head shaking and evil eyes from the shop for free). Then it lasted 3-4 months before breaking again today. I don't abuse the shifter, but since it's hilly here I change gears all the time. It might be because I use thick gloves, which means I do occasionally slip the shifter, or inadvertely push the up and down shifters at the same time. However, once the pawl engage in the notch there should be no tension on the spring, even if the cable had become stuck or I slip the shifter. Anyone else having experienced this? Should I get yet another alfine shifter? Or are there better alternatives that would work?
Thanks!
03-14-17, 03:07 PM
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I can offer no insight as to why you might be breaking a pawl spring that is under very little load, but whatever is going on, it's clearly related to the product that you are using. Just to clarify, it is the paddle that controls shifting to an easier gear? (that particular shifter allows you to shift up or down with your thumb)
The only alternative I would recommend (albeit expensive) is JTek's bar-end/thumb shifter. It will not solve the issue with touchy cable tension, but I find it is easier to use with big gloves. You will need to get an in-line cable tension adjuster if you go that route.
The only alternative I would recommend (albeit expensive) is JTek's bar-end/thumb shifter. It will not solve the issue with touchy cable tension, but I find it is easier to use with big gloves. You will need to get an in-line cable tension adjuster if you go that route.
03-14-17, 03:33 PM
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Sounds like a manufacturing defect. Considering how much money you spent on that alfine hub equipped bike, I'd get it replaced by the people who sold it to you. Those springs should not break, especially multiple times. Hell, that type of shifting mechanism hasn't really changed for a decade or so, and I still get decades old bikes that shift just fine.
(I say the above in confidence considering I ride have ridden a nexus hub in Montana winters for a few seasons now with no problems with the shifting. With that said, there are no thumb shifters for Nexus 8 speeds, so I'm using a grip shifter. Yes I know the alfine 8 speed shifters exist, but I've heard various reports of the alfine shifter working and not working with nexus hubs.)
Alfine shifters are special. Normal shifters will not work. There are a few non shimano alternatives (mainly microshift) that work just as well. If the shop doesn't replace it, I'd just replace the whole shifter.
It's interesting that you're having trouble finding the adjustment sweet spot. Do you simply not line up the lines on the shifting mechanism on the hub? I've found my nexus bike to be the easiest to adjust in terms of gears (compared to my other bikes). And I've only had to adjust it once over the last... 6 months or so? Yes, initially a cable will stretch and bindings will slip, but eventually the bike should settle into a good adjustment and stay there for a long time.
(I say the above in confidence considering I ride have ridden a nexus hub in Montana winters for a few seasons now with no problems with the shifting. With that said, there are no thumb shifters for Nexus 8 speeds, so I'm using a grip shifter. Yes I know the alfine 8 speed shifters exist, but I've heard various reports of the alfine shifter working and not working with nexus hubs.)
Alfine shifters are special. Normal shifters will not work. There are a few non shimano alternatives (mainly microshift) that work just as well. If the shop doesn't replace it, I'd just replace the whole shifter.
It's interesting that you're having trouble finding the adjustment sweet spot. Do you simply not line up the lines on the shifting mechanism on the hub? I've found my nexus bike to be the easiest to adjust in terms of gears (compared to my other bikes). And I've only had to adjust it once over the last... 6 months or so? Yes, initially a cable will stretch and bindings will slip, but eventually the bike should settle into a good adjustment and stay there for a long time.
Last edited by corrado33; 03-14-17 at 03:38 PM.
03-14-17, 09:02 PM
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I just now went looking for a Shimano brand grip shifter for the Alfine 11-speed hub. I cannot find any reference to one on the (American) Shimano website. It seems that, from what I can determine, Shimano does not make an eleven speed grip shifter. – I hope I am wrong.
I have used the 8-speed grip shifter for going-on six years with no complaints, problems or irritations; works just fine ;o)
Joe
I have used the 8-speed grip shifter for going-on six years with no complaints, problems or irritations; works just fine ;o)
Joe
Last edited by Joe Minton; 03-14-17 at 09:14 PM.
03-14-17, 10:54 PM
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I just now went looking for a Shimano brand grip shifter for the Alfine 11-speed hub. I cannot find any reference to one on the (American) Shimano website. It seems that, from what I can determine, Shimano does not make an eleven speed grip shifter. – I hope I am wrong.
Last edited by wschruba; 03-15-17 at 08:12 AM.
03-15-17, 03:30 AM
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Thanks for the replies.
To clarify; I have the shimano alfine sl-s700 rapidfire-plus 11-speed shifter, which has two paddles; shifting to lighter gears with thumb, shifting to heavier gears with index finger. It's the thumb paddle that has failed. There's no dirt in there at all, just that little broken pawl spring. I'd be happy to buy a 5-pack of those springs, but shimano doesn't provide that. Seems like I have to go back to the shop again.
Regarding the sweet spot, I do align the yellow spots on the hub, although they have to be a bit misaligned. My experience is that there is so little room in there that the slightest disturbance will give at least one gear that doesn't work. So cable stretch over time, frame shrinking in cold weather, a bit of grit somewhere, will eventually put you out of the sweet spot. I've repeatedly have to take off the wheel this winter to clean and lube (silicone) the calipers, and if I'm not careful enough to clean the sockets for the wheel or make sure it's absolutely in perfect position, this will also impact the shifting. It worked well all summer, the trouble started when it got colder and there was more dirt around, and I started messing with wheel, calipers, and all that. All in all I don't have a problem with this, as long as I put in some work. I commute 20 miles per day, and expect to do some weekly cleaning and maintenance (even if the bike was sold as "maintenance free"). My main problem is that the shifter paddle fails, for no particular reason.
To clarify; I have the shimano alfine sl-s700 rapidfire-plus 11-speed shifter, which has two paddles; shifting to lighter gears with thumb, shifting to heavier gears with index finger. It's the thumb paddle that has failed. There's no dirt in there at all, just that little broken pawl spring. I'd be happy to buy a 5-pack of those springs, but shimano doesn't provide that. Seems like I have to go back to the shop again.
Regarding the sweet spot, I do align the yellow spots on the hub, although they have to be a bit misaligned. My experience is that there is so little room in there that the slightest disturbance will give at least one gear that doesn't work. So cable stretch over time, frame shrinking in cold weather, a bit of grit somewhere, will eventually put you out of the sweet spot. I've repeatedly have to take off the wheel this winter to clean and lube (silicone) the calipers, and if I'm not careful enough to clean the sockets for the wheel or make sure it's absolutely in perfect position, this will also impact the shifting. It worked well all summer, the trouble started when it got colder and there was more dirt around, and I started messing with wheel, calipers, and all that. All in all I don't have a problem with this, as long as I put in some work. I commute 20 miles per day, and expect to do some weekly cleaning and maintenance (even if the bike was sold as "maintenance free"). My main problem is that the shifter paddle fails, for no particular reason.
03-15-17, 08:16 AM
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[MENTION=456936]johansa[/MENTION] I've used/sold the Alfine 11 for around 4 years, well after the big kinks were worked out of it, but I've never heard of that particular problem (which, to be honest, seems more related to the shifter, than the hub). Shimano's shifters are, if not legendary, well-known for their superb longevity/tolerance to abuse. The climate swings quite far where I live, and I've used the rapidfire shifter anywhere from -12C to 43C without any issues.
With your particular case, I would cut out the shop, and personally send the shifter back to Shimano, yourself. From personal experience, they would be very interested to look at something that has been consistently failing through no fault of the user. They may even be able to offer some insight into your issue.
The only reason I say to send it back to Shimano yourself, is the issue you are having may never get resolved, since most shops simply send back damaged goods for reimbursement, without any kind of explanation of the damage. Since you are commuting on it, and it is unlikely you want to go without a shifter for several weeks (which is the turn-around for sending something back to Shimano as a consumer) it may be better to call them and leave a message to be delivered to whomever the appropriate person is in Shimano Europe. My experience is that they will almost certainly send you to complete the warranty through a shop, but at least this way, you may get some additional information as to why it broke. I'm not sure where Shimano Europe is based, but call when they open in the morning of whatever time zone they are in--you won't spend 20-30 minutes waiting on the phone.
With your particular case, I would cut out the shop, and personally send the shifter back to Shimano, yourself. From personal experience, they would be very interested to look at something that has been consistently failing through no fault of the user. They may even be able to offer some insight into your issue.
The only reason I say to send it back to Shimano yourself, is the issue you are having may never get resolved, since most shops simply send back damaged goods for reimbursement, without any kind of explanation of the damage. Since you are commuting on it, and it is unlikely you want to go without a shifter for several weeks (which is the turn-around for sending something back to Shimano as a consumer) it may be better to call them and leave a message to be delivered to whomever the appropriate person is in Shimano Europe. My experience is that they will almost certainly send you to complete the warranty through a shop, but at least this way, you may get some additional information as to why it broke. I'm not sure where Shimano Europe is based, but call when they open in the morning of whatever time zone they are in--you won't spend 20-30 minutes waiting on the phone.
03-15-17, 08:40 AM
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[MENTION=421412]wschruba[/MENTION] Thanks! I agree it's probably something with the shifter, though it's strange that only I seem to have this problem. If I can't ride with gloves or mittens because the shifter is too delicate, shimano (and Cube!) should be aware. Spring (no pun intended) is here anyway, so I can ride my external gears summer bike while waiting.
