TimMK

Hello,

I'm currently working on a Gitane Tandem from 1973. It's generally in a good state, except foor the paint. I have no idea, what the former owners (they bought it as a their wedding present) did to it, but the paint work is covered in scratches.

I would like to know, which color this typical Gitane green is. I've been to three shops specialized in car paint, have tried a lot of shade cards, but I haven't found a color fitting this typical metallic green. After 44 years, it could of course be a problem of fading aswell.

Does anybody know, which RAL (or whatever) color this typical Gitane green is?

Regards,
Tim

randyjawa 

Perhaps none of my business, but you would be wise to take the time to answer this question...

Should I Paint My Bicycle? There are many things to consider before taking the painting plunge. Taking the time to understand the issues could well save you money, time, effort and financial frustration. And...

To me, that old tandem does not look like it needs to be painted.

xiaoman1 

Op, Post some close-up photos please...too hard to make an educated guess without them.
Ben

TimMK

I know about these discussions about painting or not, however, although you cannot see it on the photo, the frame is covered with scratches, the drop outs are completely uncoated as well as other areas, where the chain seems to have rubbed when coming of. If I cannot find the correct paint, I will stick to the shabby look of the bike, however, I have achieved very satisfying results with covering scratches so far (2 bikes). But in these cases, I was able to get the exact same color tone.

plonz 

I have an Olmo I couldn't match to anything and had good luck taking the fork to an automotive paint shop. They had an "old timer" who matched the color amazingly well just looking at the part.

Smaller job than normal so I'd call ahead to see if they're willing to help you. My shop didn't even charge me so I gave them a tip and thanked them profusely.

TimMK

First, I've been to a hardware store, which is quite good for car paints. I got lucky there with two previous bikes.

Since they could not help me, they advised me to go to a paint shop. They had tons of tone cards, however, they were sorted by car brand, which doesn't really help, when you are looking for a color which is not used by any car brand.

They advised me to go to a wholesaler for car paint, who had tone cards sorted by color, but again, no luck. Interestingly, he looked up "Gitane" in his data base, just for fun, and it was there, however, just with a blueish color, which I've also seen for Gitane bikes. No green though...

So honestly speaking: This forum is my last resort. Here where I live (Germany), I did not have any luck.

Regards,
Tim

duane041

That green looks to be more than just a basic color; could be a tri-coat color, which is similar to the British "flamboyant" colors. Silver base, tinted mid coat, then clear coat (in the old days of lacquer, it was just a silver base and a tinted top coat). Replicating these types of colors is damn near impossible with single-stage paint.

Mazda had a color about 4 years ago (I think it was called 'Spirited Green') which could be close, and Chevy had a green for the Camaro ('Synergy Green'). But matching it exactly could prove to be tough.

plonz 

It sounds like you and the shops are trying to match to an existing color code. My suggestion was to find a paint shop that would do a custom blend to match. That's what the paint shop did for me. I left the fork with them and their guy blended a color that matched. There was no card with the exact color they ended up blending for me.

Good luck!

arex

Might consider a powdercoat, if you don't need an absolute show-quality finish...even though paint will probably look better in the end, powdercoating does produce a very nice finish. Lots of color options, more durable, and probably cheaper. There's a LOT of color effects they can do with PC, and I bet you can find something that comes pretty close to that color.

TimMK

The bike is currently completely disassembled, so while cleaning the frame (43 year old grease stains...) I had a closer look and it seems like you are right: You can even see it on the head tube, it starts in steel, then comes a layer of silver and then green. This explains, why the color seems to have a certain "depth".

Okay, now I understand. But with this special paint job it seems like there is no possibility to achieve a good look.

After I have seen a few old bikes which were powdercoated, I'm not a big fan of it. You are right, it gives a great protection, but I didn't like how the thickness of the coating rounded of details, expecially like the sockets.

So I guess, I'll go for the shabby look after all. I can live with that, since the bike has a real story to tell and with the newly gained knowledge about the three layer coating it's gotten a bit more exiting.

Thanks! I will post an image of the finished bike!

Regards,
Tim

due ruote 

Not exactly the same green, but check out the touch-up work in this thread (post #145). I think you will be impressed. I am anyway. I don't think you could get these results without an airbrush, but it suggests that a high quality touch-up is possible.

repechage

Germany... Too bad, pretty close to a '67 Pontiac Firebird green metallic.
DuPont and PPG both made matches way back but different paint systems back then for sure!
GM back then used a lot of Acrylic Lacquer.
RAL is a system I thought most often used with powdercoat systems, I doubt you will find anything.
The Gitane colors of this type were under coated in silver then top coated in a semi translucent tone, it is what provided depth, and yes I would expect some color change over time from UV exposure, the original color might be hiding under a tube band clamp.

Renngrrl

Thank you. You just answered about 4 questions I had on painting, decals, and whether I'll be burnt at the stake for ever considering changing either.

Velocivixen

The powder coaster I go to does "flamboyant" looking powders in a 2-stage process. Chrome or bright silver base coat, then a vivid somewhat transparent powder over that. Not sure about the exact staging but the paint comes out looking almost like those vivid anodized parts you can buy.

den1967

Nice bike!

duane041

This is why I have been doing more "in place" restorations lately. I work with the original finish as much as possible, and match and blend in new paint (usually around areas that are prone to rust and chipping). It's very hard to tell the new areas from the old. And decals can also be repaired with a keen eye and a steady hand at the brush. I find it relaxing and enjoyable, if you can believe it!

TimMK

We've cleaned the frame with petroleum yesterday, degreased it, carefully improved the paint survace with a very fine polish and finally waxed it. Now the "depth" of the paint job really does it's magic, looks great and the scratches... well, they show, the bike is 44 years old.

All other parts are already cleaned and polished, so now the fun part of putting it all together starts. I hope, I will not end op with a single loose screw, although I've already come across a part which I'm not really sure where to use.

Pompiere

I love the staging for your bike photo, ready for re-assembly.

Post a picture of the unknown part. Someone here will have an answer.

TimMK

The beauty/beast is finished! Yeah, I know, it's to small for me, but that's the usual problem I have with old bikes. It's a beauty to look at, but riding is a different story. The handle bar is quite narrow which is okay when you are on your own, but with a stoker, it get's a bit challenging. And then there are these brakes... They are not that great on single old bikes, so you can guess, how they work for two persons on a tandem... There is a third drum brake in the rear wheel, but it's also not that efficient.

But all in all, it's a beauty, so we'll ride it on special occasions and have fun (and some fear) with it.

As I suspected, a few parts are left over (shown below) and I'm not really sure, where they came from. I guess, I just saved some weight.

Regards,
Tim

qcpmsame 

Its a quite nice looking tandem, Gitane always have a great appearance to my way of thinking. Perhaps [MENTION=190941]jimmuller[/MENTION] will happen along and he can offer up some ideas as to what your parts above are. He and (his lovely stoker,) Sharon ride a great restored tandem regularly. The braking is a major point on tandems, I remember that theirs has a drum rear brake as well as those cantilever type that your Gitane is equipped with, so his experience with this item may prove helpful.

Oh, a Belated Welcome to the C&V Forum as well.

Bill

Kevindale

I'm glad you didn't repaint it -- it looks beautiful, at least from a few feet away. Nice job!

I'm a little concerned for you with the left over bolts and bits. I wonder if something might be prone to failure. Perhaps you might start a new thread, calling on vintage tandem owners to help ID where those extra pieces belong.

jimmuller 

Hi Bill, and thanks for the vote of confidence.

That tandem does look nice and to my eyes very distinctively Gitane. Now about those parts, Hmm, you took all these off the bike or did you receive them in a box and need to figure out where or even if they came from that bike?

The bolt and wide nut on the upper left looks like a typical 70's bolt that holds the RD claw to the DO. The flat spot visible on the top would be on the inside and face the axle. It is not essential but it keeps the RD in place whenever you remove the rear wheel.

The object in the middle top row looks like a wheel bearing cone but that may be deceptive in the pic. Did you repack any of the bearings and forget to put one back together? What size is it, or what threaded shaft does it fit?

The upper right looks like it might be part of a fender mount.

The nut far left middle row could be for anything. Is it the same threads as the top row center? The screw with small nut, second from left middle row, could be anything. The small screw with nut, each with knurled surfaces, is a Simplex shift cable adjuster that would go on the stem shifters. It would screw into the shift lever mount from the bottom. They also make good brake adjusters for some brake levers because the barrel is small enough to fit into the hole on top of the lever mount. So don't throw it away! (Send it to me.)

I can only guess what the five washers are for. The smallest looks like it might be for fender or rack mount. The big one and the flat-edge one next to it might be for the rear axle, to go between the DOs and the final axle nuts. The flat edge might go toward the axle.

As for performance, the handlebar might be narrow by today's standards, not uncommon on older French bikes.

The brakes work well enough with new Kool Stop pads. The geometry of those cantilever brake cables (MAFAC, right?) will give better braking if the yoke cables are fairly long, which yours appear to be. (Some people in BF argue that shorter cables give better braking but a complete analysis shows it depends on the geometry of the arms. For those MAFACs longer is better.) The rear drum was intended to provide long mountain-descent braking without overheating the rim but they do provide enough extra braking to be worthwhile as a general-use brake.

In fact you have options for how to rig the brakes. On some of those tandems the factory rigged them with a dual-cable MAFAC lever (two holes, two brake anchors inside) on the right that operated both front and rear cantilevers, and a regular single-cable lever on the left that operated the drum. A tandem is so long that balancing F and R brakes is never an issue so you just adjust the cables so that both brakes make contact more or less at the same time. With this arrangement the captain operates both brakes as if it were a solo bike - just squeeze both levers as you wish. There should be plenty of stopping power from the dual-cable cantilevers but the limiting factor may be your hand strength. That's why using both hands for general braking is good.

The other way to rig them is the way you did, single cables for the cantilevers, and the stoker operates the drum. The advantage is you have three hands instead of two to provide strength. The disadvantage is that the stoker doesn't know when the captain intends to brake. And if the stoker is a small woman with weaker hands the extra hand strength may not be much benefit anyway. I know that for us (our combined weight is only 275 lbs, 125kg) it wouldn't help much if I gave my stoker the drum brake lever.

No matter how you rig them a tandem takes more effort and distance to stop. Even with a solo bike you can't stop in zero distance; with a tandem it's the same way but a bit worse, so you just have to anticipate a bit further ahead. The safety levers on those brake levers will not give great braking. Some people in BF like them but for demanding situations you would be better off avoiding them. If you remove them your levers will have more movement capacity.

Welcome to tandem biking and BF!

TimMK

Thanks for the answers! Just to make it clear: My wife and I are used to cycling tandems, so it's generally not a new experience. Although... our "common" tandem is a Trek T1000, so this old Gitane is something different.

We made a quick tour yesterday evening (26 km, 16 mi). We were not going fast and experimented a bit with everything, but we ended up with a mean of 14,3 mi/h. It's a SPEED MACHINE! Our conclusion so far:

1) Something is always rubbing against something. The tires are just a bit to wide, so it's quite hard to adjust and bend the mudgards accordingly. You also should not watch the spinning chain rings, since you'll get really sick. They wobble quite a bit.

2) Shifting is annoying, since the whole configuration is very unprecise. Maybe it's due to the long shifting cable combined with the old derailleur. You get quite lazy changing gears, since coordinating both riders doesn't really help. Maybe we just need more experience.

3) The brakes remain an adventure and real team work. I already knew the story behind the drum brake operated by the stoker and I guess, that experience will help do the job in the future. When I start braking for a longer duration, my wife just joins me and since the drum brake is not very strong, this works without problems. When I stop braking, she stops too, which works fine. It keeps her sharp. No more day dreaming when we cycle this machine!

4) The narrow handle bar does not seem to pose such a problem after all. It's just its position which annoys me. Due to my size, the saddle is approximately 8" above the handle bar, so I am bent over quite a bit. A higher stem would help, but it would also look stupid. I will have to decide if I go for looks or comfort.

About the remaining parts: I disassembled the complete bike, so I also disassembled all of these parts. I

"The bolt and wide nut on the upper left looks like a typical 70's bolt that holds the RD claw to the DO."

Yes, I thought so too, but how is it mounted? Will the nut be placed in the dropout slit? I saw pictures where the bolt was screwed into a hole in the dropout, but there is none.

"The object in the middle top row looks like a wheel bearing cone"

No, it's just a specially formed nut, I guess it was used as a counter nut for e.g. the saddle stem.

"The upper right looks like it might be part of a fender mount."

Yes, I thought so too, it's for mounting something in some sort of plate, but there is no hole. That's the part, where I really have no clue what it might be for.

"The small screw with nut, each with knurled surfaces, is a Simplex shift cable adjuster"

Yeah, I thought so too, but there is no thread there... I really have no clue where to put it.

Regards,
Tim

jimmuller 

Hmm. If they came off the bike they must have come from somewhere. Everything's gotta' be somewhere.

Those things go through the DO slot itself and the hole at the upper back end of the claw. There would be no hole in the DO for it. The small bolt head is to the outside of the claw. The inside nut has a shoulder to hold it in place and to let it slip into the DO without protruding much into the space for the chain. The flat edge of the nut faces where the axle will go in front of it to let the axle slide as far back as possible. I suppose one can mount it after the wheel is in place but generally you mount the claw with RD attached before putting the wheel in. Does this explanation help?


That is very definitely a Simplex cable-housing adjuster. The shift cables emerge from the levers downward through small holes in the mounting bracket, right? Those holes should be threaded. Now, I see those levers are longer than the typical Simplex levers from back then. Possibly were replaced by a previous owner, so maybe those don't have threads. I suppose it is possible whoever swapped the levers used that adjuster for some other cable, perhaps a brake.

As for the stuff you'll just have to look around and see what seems to be missing a washer or to need a special nut. Figuring out a old bike can sometimes be a challenge! About the shifting, you just have to do all the usual stuff you'd do to improve shifting. Use new Teflon-lined cables like Jagwire, keep the RD clean, etc. We still run a long-cage Simplex RD on our Peugeot and the rear shifts quite well. You have the disadvantage of stem shifters though. They require one more housing section and the accompanying stops, all of which add friction. Downtube levers would work better.

due ruote 

If I am seeing it right, the top right piece looks like a daruma for the front fender.