Will pedal assist bikes ever be C&V?
#51
Senior Member
I mean, come on. They're 250 watt vehicles that are mechanically and structurally identical to an ordinary bicycle, except they have a capped maximum speed of 25kph. In other words they are bicycles but slower. Why would you hold them to any other standard than what they are - a slowly ridden bicycle?
Now, you do have illegal homebuilt ebikes that tear arse, and are completely invisible to cops. Effectively a dodge of motorbike regulation and licencing, and have no real change of getting caught... and that's cool as hell. I never intentionally followed a law in my life, and I can slip under the radar on a completely silent five+ horsepower bike that weighs almost nothing? Cops are a pain in the ass confiscating everyone's dirt bikes where I'm from so sign me the hell up.
#52
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32 kph (20 mph) motor-alone max in most of US, though some states allow up to 30 mph. Pedal-assisted can be faster than motor-alone max mph.
Last edited by davester; 09-12-17 at 08:39 PM.
#53
Occam's Rotor
Let me play devil's advocate for a minute. My wife has arthritic hips (meaning it will probably get worse, and might involve hip replacement some day) and is simply not as fast and strong a rider as I am. Basically, I can either go slow, wait, or ride separately from her. This puts a bit of stress on our relationship. If I could put that Vivax motor on her bike, it would make our rides more enjoyable, and from what I can tell, she still would get a reasonable work-out. She has no interest in anything but very casual recreational riding and commuting, so the idea of it being a form of cheating is irrelevant.
What would be wrong with this?
What would be wrong with this?
#54
FBoD Member at Large
#55
FBoD Member at Large
This is really simple:
If it has a motor it isn't a bicycle (as currently defined). It's a motorcycle/moped/something else.
Whether or not such a vehicle will be "C&V" isn't related to current or future bicycles.
Either there will be an interest in these vehicles in later years or there won't.
If it has a motor it isn't a bicycle (as currently defined). It's a motorcycle/moped/something else.
Whether or not such a vehicle will be "C&V" isn't related to current or future bicycles.
Either there will be an interest in these vehicles in later years or there won't.
#56
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#57
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edit: Just looked up your state's DMV summary, and unlike most states, they do define electric pedal assist bikes as mopeds requiring registration and (if you are not already a licensed driver) an operators permit.
How's that working out? Enforced/obeyed? Or largely ignored? Don
Last edited by ollo_ollo; 09-14-17 at 01:38 PM.
#63
FBoD Member at Large
Sorry, but most states don't agree with you and have already legislatively defined such as bicycles. Restrictions vary by state, but they are considered bicycles by many https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Forms/DMV/6619.pdf
Hence the lack of logic and reason.
#64
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To be fair, the states are somewhat handicapped by the 2001 Federal trade legislation defining e-bikes with below 750 watt motors and unable to exceed 20 mph as bicycles, not motor vehicles. States can add restrictions and call it a moped requiring a license etc. People will comply, or not depending on resources committed. Eventually, it will sort itself out. Don
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Now, you do have illegal homebuilt ebikes that tear arse, and are completely invisible to cops. Effectively a dodge of motorbike regulation and licencing, and have no real change of getting caught... and that's cool as hell. I never intentionally followed a law in my life, and I can slip under the radar on a completely silent five+ horsepower bike that weighs almost nothing? Cops are a pain in the ass confiscating everyone's dirt bikes where I'm from so sign me the hell up.
Around here you have roving gangs of morons stunting around on dirt bikes and quads, popping wheelies in the middle of traffic and crowded streets. No helmets, no insurance, and half the bikes/quads don't even belong to them. There are always some schmucks ruining it for the rest of us, but that's the society we live in.
E-bikes need to be regulated for the same reason. Pedal assist and governed at 20mph? I'm fine with considering them like regular bikes and no imposing restrictions. Anything beyond that, just call it a scooter and let the laws apply as such.
#66
Senior Member
Here in Holland people buy hilarious "S-Pedalec" ebikes that can go 28MPH and need a Moped AM licence, vehicle registration and insurance. It's dumb of them because you can get the same thing by buying a regular ebike and swapping the controller, and there's no consequence to doing so.
Back in England I had a 66CC two stroke on a Raleigh, in legal terms I was on a motorbike that wasn't type approved, had no registration, no licence, no insurance, and so the cops could have taken and crushed it at any time along with slapping a huge fine and driving ban on me. Police just drove past and didn't give a damn, some of them even waved. Being in trouble is a fake idea.
#67
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I know what you mean. Enforcement will always be a struggle/issue, but it can be done. When they first imposed helmet laws in Italy for 50cc scooters, it was pretty interesting to see the reaction in various parts of the country. Eventually the police cracked down where needed, and now you really only see people ignoring it in Naples (among the big cities), but then Naples is like the wild f--in west.
#68
Senior Member
I know what you mean. Enforcement will always be a struggle/issue, but it can be done. When they first imposed helmet laws in Italy for 50cc scooters, it was pretty interesting to see the reaction in various parts of the country. Eventually the police cracked down where needed, and now you really only see people ignoring it in Naples (among the big cities), but then Naples is like the wild f--in west.
It's absurd because in Holland bikes and blue plated vehicles are forbidden from using the road if a bike path is also there, so all the dutch omas and schoolkids are pedalling along and getting buzzed by 30mph Vespas constantly. Meanwhile it would be a terrible sin here to ride my ten speed in the car lane even though I can match the sedate dutch auto driver's pace with little effort.
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Let me play devil's advocate for a minute. My wife has arthritic hips (meaning it will probably get worse, and might involve hip replacement some day) and is simply not as fast and strong a rider as I am. Basically, I can either go slow, wait, or ride separately from her. This puts a bit of stress on our relationship. If I could put that Vivax motor on her bike, it would make our rides more enjoyable, and from what I can tell, she still would get a reasonable work-out. She has no interest in anything but very casual recreational riding and commuting, so the idea of it being a form of cheating is irrelevant.
What would be wrong with this?
What would be wrong with this?
Brent
#70
Senior Member
Motorized or not, will the soulless bikes of today ever become classic? Or will they follow automobiles in having limited classic appeal. Few wax nostalgic over the cars of the 80s and 90s. The last classic vehicles come out of the 70s. C & V bikes go a bit longer, but I'm not sure mere age will be enough to turn more recent designs into classics.
#71
Senior Member
I can see them being C&V ultimately, once enough time has passed. However, I don't see them ever venturing into the same rarefied romantic territory that we tend to assign to the bikes we lusted over in our youth. I imagine they'll be looked at rather more like the way we look back on generic house-brand department store town bikes. (If, of course, we can still find functional battery packs for them when the time comes.)
#72
Senior Member
Once everybody is riding their hover-bike powered by a personal antimatter reactor.... they'll look back at these primitive lithium ion based E-Bikes as true collectors items.
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