loopless

My ride is a Cdate T2 2016 which comes with 105 and FSA Gosammer timing and chain rings. Cogs are Tiagra.

What sort of improvement can I expect from upgrading the parts to Ultegra/Dace? I'd likely not go for triple rings so a standard dual ring setup will do.

Cogs, Chainring, Timing Chain rings, Shifters, crank arms (both captain and stoker) ?

thanks

Paul J

The biggest difference you would experience in my opinion would be the difference between double and triple. 105 is a good option and would be very similar to Ultegra from a functioning perspective. In the upper options of Shimano the difference in function is less and it is more finish and durability. Durace is only available in double so no comparison to be made there. Shifting in general is a challenge with a tandem because of two people adding power and sometimes that is not coordinated. The double would help with less complexity of three rings vs two rings. We need a full range of gear options because of our hills, if I lives in an area where a double would work that would be pretty tempting. Not sure how long you've had your tandem but if it is for a shorter period of time I'd say ride it for a while with what you have and see what things are not up to your expectations. then see if it is technique or equipment changes needed.

kingston 

Perhaps your stoker is a lot stronger than mine, but I use the little ring all the time and would never consider going from a triple to a double. Aside from that, you won't notice any difference going from 105 to ultegra or dura ace.

oldacura

I think the "conventional wisdom" is that Dura-Ace is mostly status over Ultegra. Also, if you are dependent on a wide range, you probably want to stay with triple chainrings.

qspencer

Is it 10-speed or 11-speed 105 group? I would say it may be a worthwhile upgrade if you're on 10 speed 105, but if you're already on 11 speed the primary benefit may be weight savings. I have 11 speed 105 on 2 bikes and am very impressed with its performance.

sch

Unless your current stuff is worn out, which seems unlikely on a 12-18 month old bike, IMO
you will notice no difference in performance with the possible exception of improved FD
shifting secondary to double CW versus triple. If you are upgrading to 11 spd from 10
(and I hope your rear hub is 11 spd compatible), you can make the jump to 11-36 or larger
cassettes more easily with 11 spd RD and especially with an R 8000 Ultegra RD, but this
could be done with your present setup with minor adjustments (eg b screw/Wolf tooth RD
hanger) if you are already 11 spd.

You may see a 1/2 -1 lb weight drop with the change outs, but this is the difference
between a pre and post ride dump.

mtseymour

It depends on your type of riding and budget.

If you're doing recreational rides with moderate mileage, then 105 is perfectly fine. If you like doing century rides and a lot of miles, then it's more worthwhile to consider an Ultegra 11sp upgrade. The components are lighter, more durable, and more precise. It's perfectly fine to mix-and-match. For instance, you can use the new Ultegra R8000 34T cassette if you want lower gearing with your 105 drivetrain.

Dura Ace is lighter than Ultegra but the shifting and riding performance is minor. If it fits your budget, Dura Ace offers some features that are not available on Ultegra (eg. Powermeter, Freeza disc rotors). There are also some Dura Ace components that are personal favorites (eg. BR-R9100 caliper brake, R9100-C24 wheels).

It should be noted that Shimano has occasionally introduced new ideas at the Ultegra and XT level before moving them up to Dura Ace and XTR.

loopless

@GSPencer - it is a 10speed 105. (TANDEM ROAD 2 Cannondale)
@mtseymour- i do 40km 3 x weekdays and around 100km on a weekend day. routes are primarily flats with the occasional 10-20% climbs (mainly over viaducts/flyters).
@kingston - you know what? I've never tried riding on the smallest chainring, never felt a need to and thus far, have manage my climbs abeilt raising my HR to 170 after the climb !!. I might just try out the smallest chain ring to see if that helps? This is also an interesting point, going to the smaller cogs (to maintain speed) and smallest chain ring for power - would this not cause some sort of cross chain situation ?
@Paul J - I've never used the smallest chainring but may just try for the sake of getting the experience. my main aim so far is to reduce weight and also get somewhere between the 52t - 39T. I've tried speeding with the 52t felt a little smaller will go a long way.

appreciate all your responses...

kingston 

If I ever pushed my stoker's HR anywhere near 170 that would be the last time she ever sat on the back of that tandem .

Artmo 

my main aim so far is to reduce weight ...[/QUOTE]

If weight reduction is your main aim, change wheels. We have a 2015 T2 which is a heavy beast, but putting Spinergy Tx2s on it have made quite a difference. The 105 on ours works flawlessly and the weight difference between that and Ultegra is about 100g or 3 oz.

OneIsAllYouNeed

Groupsets are just about the most expensive place to try to save weight. You could switch to a Gates timing belt for some weight reduction, but otherwise the differences are pretty tiny. When parts wear out, replacing them with nicer ones is a healthy habit. Seatposts, stems, handlebars, and tubes are cheap places to save weight. Tires are a great upgrade for most bikes.

Matching your gear range to your geography and ability makes sense. Figure out the highest and lowest gear you'd ever think you'll need (we like 22 to 129 gear inches (6 to 35mph) on the tandem). Keeping rear shifts close together limits cassette choices to (10-speed) 11-28, 12-30 or (11-speed) 11-32. Wider spaced options are available, but less desirable. Can you get your gear range with 46/30, 48/32, 50/34, 52/36, or 53/39 chainrings?
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

Nick & Chris

We currently have 3 tandems--one with Dura Ace, one with Ultegra and one with 105. They are all oldish triple cranks with 9 speed cassettes. The one that has always shifted the best is the 105--it's a co-motion primera with couplers and even after taking it apart and taking it to Europe twice, when I put it back together (with my limited mechanical skills) it always shifts just right without any adjustment. So I don't think I would "upgrade" to Ultegra or Dura Ace if the 105 is working right. To be fair, one reason that the other 2 might not be as smooth is that I have installed smaller small rings (26) on them but kept the stock 30 that goes with the 105.

mtseymour

Your main decision is to stay 10sp or switch to 11sp drivetrain. The 11sp components are more widely available, lighter, and work better. To make the conversion, you'll need a minimum of new shifters, double cranket (50/34 or 52/36), and new cassette. You'll need a rear wheel with spacing with 11sp cassette. New derailleurs are desirable but not essential.

It's a good time to shop for components because many 11sp Ultegra and 105 components are on sale. Mix-and-match Ultegra and 105 to get the best value. I love Dura Ace but not everyone can get pro deals.

Don't bother with the granny. It's rare to find triple cranks on new road bikes (and most mtn bikes) because the shifting is poor. Triples are also heavier. A 50/34 crank with 32T or 40T casssette is low enough for steep terrain. We were happy to ditch the triple on our tandem and now get flawless shifting from our 2x11 drivetrain.

loopless

i've just stuck in a request for a quote .

will see how much the guys at my LBS will offer me.

diabloridr

For better or worse, triples are an endangered species, being supplanted by wide range 11-speed doubles on mountain bikes, which dictate component availability for tandems (a sizable portion of the mountain bike market has already moved to single ring drivetrains)

Something to consider in your component decisions.

Paul J

I've not worried about weight too much an didn't think the small ring was a first place to go. We've found a happy median with the triple which as given up nice spacing in gearing and when we are grinding up a mile ling hill being able to sit and spin is a plus. It is funny with our 9 speed bike we have one spot where I always say I wish I has a cog in the middle of two. I've wondered what it's like having a double and then widely spaced cog set going from 11 or 12 to say 40? I ride a compact on one of my singles which I've gotten use but it is a close-ratio cog-set. One other thing I'd like to mention, we have been more prone to breaking the chain on our 10 speed then our 9 speed so durability may be a consideration on the 11 speed.

loopless

If weight reduction is your main aim, change wheels. We have a 2015 T2 which is a heavy beast, but putting Spinergy Tx2s on it have made quite a difference. The 105 on ours works flawlessly and the weight difference between that and Ultegra is about 100g or 3 oz.[/QUOTE]

that's part of my purchase list but currently, am deliberating on whether to get the TX2 Stealth or normal ones. I'm leaning more to the Stealth (for its looks pretty much).

as to gearing, It is dead set that I'll be going for a 2x11 Ultegra... retaining the FSA Gossamer crank arms.

TCW2

I switched our 2007 Trek T2000 drivetrain from Ultegra 3x9 (11-28, 52/39/30) to 11 speed Ultegra (11-32 cassette, 52/39). We upgraded the wheels early on to the Spinergys which supported the 11 speed cassette. We dropped some weight in the process. The main weight drop was in the shifters, however, 10 speed Ultegra is about the same as 11 speed Ultegra. 105 10 speed is heavier by about 75 grams.

The 11 speed Ultegra rear shifting is amazing. The feel is consistent up and down the cassette, even while cross-chained. My single bike has 10 speed Ultegra and the feel of it is nowhere near as good. We did run into issues with the front der as the new 11-speed stuff can't reach out far enough due to wide cranks/145 hub spacing. We overcame the issue with an XTR front der that works well with the new Ultegra shifter.

If we ever need more gearing we could always go with an XT rear der/cassette and use Wolftooth items for compatibility. So far the 39 front ring with 32 rear cog has been sufficient for us.

loopless

My dealer, an official service center for Asia Cdale mentioned he has problems sourcing for the ultegra... may I ask, how did you manage to switch to 2x11 ? Did you replace just the chain rings ? if not, how were you able to change the crank arms for all 4 cranks? did you use a Heli coil of sorts for the LHS drive?

loopless

Folks,

so I’m a little lost here, the request I’ve put up to my LBS is to perform includes the following:

(change all to Ultegra)
1. change brakes/Shifters levers
2. change RD, FD
3. Change Cassette to 11 speed
4. Change triple chaining to double
5. change all 4 crank arms and rings to Ultegra (this to ensure consistency)

The mech mentioned that it will be challenging to do as it is hard to locate any Ultegra full tandem groups now and that my best bet will be a really old discontinued Ultegra Tandem set. Even so, it will be 3x10 which kind of defeats the purpose of the upgrade.

Question I have for you guys is, what did you exactly change when you made the swop to 2x11 Ultegra? Did you:

1. simply change the right side crank from triple to double + Cassette from 10 to 11 spd, leaving everything else in place ? For example, if you came from a FSA setup, all crank arms except 1 will remain as FSA ?
2. If now, please can you guide me on how exactly to go about this?
3. I know some have suggested the use of Heli coil in order to reverse thread the crossover drive side – is this what majority of you are doing ?
4. I've also read that it may be possible to swop out just the rings leaving the crank farms as original, again to retain consistency but not sure if it is recommended or even possible?

Apologies but I’m really new to all this so could really do with some guidance.

mtseymour

Out of your 5 steps, the conversion from triple to double chainring is the only difficult step. My experience is limited to Shimano but it probably applies to FSA. To convert to double chainrings, the simplest method is remove the granny, and just use the 39/52 rings. The gear ratio and chainline won't be optimal, but it can work with some adjustments to the front derailleur.

On my Shimano R603 stoker crankset (3 x 10), I tried to replace the right side with the Ultegra FC-6800 crankset (34/50 ratio). Unfortunately, the 11sp Ultegra uses a difference spindle interface and won't fit the left side of the triple crankset.

Since Ultegra 2x11 is not available, most 2x11 conversions use Lightning or DaVanci 2x11 cranksets. I'm not sure if Middleburn is still in business. I've seen a tandem with Cannondale Hollowgram SI cranks (using heli coils to attach the crossover arm) but this is not a practical option. We ended up upgrading to the Lightning cranks and are happy with the results.

loopless

The R603 was exactly the model which my mech referred to as "old discontinued" crankset. For me, i run a dale RT2 fitted with FSA Gossamer cranks/MegaExo BB (think its BB30). I'm not sure what sort of spindle the Gossamer uses though. Short of taking them apart to check, there isnt much information out there online.

Really keen to get to 2x11 but the restrictions of tandems is making things a little challenging!

EDIT:

I was also thinking, say I upgraded my cranks, all of them (4) to SLK Carbon, + replacing the triple to double, wouldnt that actually be possible given that the spindles will now be the same?

if that works, then all I need to take care off next is the 2x11 speed shifters which can go ultegra FC6800

TCW2

Simple, I removed the 30 tooth granny from the crankset. I was left with a 52 and 39 ring. The rings are SRAM. The crankset is a Bontrager Race Lite which was made by SRAM. It's basically an X0 crankset with a road, triple spider. Someday I'll probably check to see if a SRAM Force Spider will fit properly so I can run a 52 - 36 rind set up. SRAM makes these type of changes easy with their removable spiders.

TCW2

https://www.bikeforums.net/tandem-cy...discovery.html

OneIsAllYouNeed

I think you're in luck with bottom brackets. FSA MegaExo (used on Gossamer and SLK tandem cranks) and Shimano Hollowtech II (used on R603) both use 24mm spindles with ~86.5mm width (outside-to-outside).

FSA MegaEVO uses a 30mm spindle, like BB30. I'm not aware of any aftermarket BB30 tandem cranksets. Santana's newest modular carbon crankset likely uses a 30mm spindle for the 386EVO standard (30mm spindle x 86.5mm width). My tandem has a custom 386EVO crankset made from an assortment of single bike parts.