Anything new from Shimano in the making?
11-04-17, 09:12 AM
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Anything new from Shimano in the making?
Isn't it about time for Shimano to come out with some more major changes to it's line up of road groupsets?
I thought they sort of went every three years. Or do you think they've pretty much topped out the value added features for Dura Ace down to Claris and we are only going to see very minor things till an entirely revolutionary tech is announced?
I thought they sort of went every three years. Or do you think they've pretty much topped out the value added features for Dura Ace down to Claris and we are only going to see very minor things till an entirely revolutionary tech is announced?
11-04-17, 10:07 AM
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In the past 10 years...ergonomics changes (and an extra gear or two) aside how much better do road groupsets work mechanically?
11-04-17, 10:24 AM
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I personally wouldn't mind if they (and the whole industry) slowed down the treadmill of more cogs and new standards, and just allowed things to be stable for a while...
11-04-17, 11:02 AM
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I expect "the next big thing" will be a wireless version of Di2, as usual starting at the Dura Ace level and working it's way down to Ultegra over the next few years.
Has anyone else noticed the current wired Di2 has not gotten below Ultegra? Perhaps the technology is too inherently expensive to go down any more levels to 105 or below.
Has anyone else noticed the current wired Di2 has not gotten below Ultegra? Perhaps the technology is too inherently expensive to go down any more levels to 105 or below.
11-04-17, 12:09 PM
#6
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I expect "the next big thing" will be a wireless version of Di2, as usual starting at the Dura Ace level and working it's way down to Ultegra over the next few years.
Has anyone else noticed the current wired Di2 has not gotten below Ultegra? Perhaps the technology is too inherently expensive to go down any more levels to 105 or below.
Has anyone else noticed the current wired Di2 has not gotten below Ultegra? Perhaps the technology is too inherently expensive to go down any more levels to 105 or below.
I would like to see shift buttons that can go anywhere rather than brifters.
11-04-17, 12:12 PM
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Shimano Ultegra Di2 R600 Climbing Shifter Switch | Chain Reaction Cycles
I've seen people mod the hoods of these guys to accommodate the above switches:
TRP RRL Drop Bar Lever | Chain Reaction Cycles
11-04-17, 12:26 PM
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Like this?
Shimano Ultegra Di2 R600 Climbing Shifter Switch | Chain Reaction Cycles
I've seen people mod the hoods of these guys to accommodate the above switches:
TRP RRL Drop Bar Lever | Chain Reaction Cycles
Shimano Ultegra Di2 R600 Climbing Shifter Switch | Chain Reaction Cycles
I've seen people mod the hoods of these guys to accommodate the above switches:
TRP RRL Drop Bar Lever | Chain Reaction Cycles
11-04-17, 01:14 PM
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I expect "the next big thing" will be a wireless version of Di2, as usual starting at the Dura Ace level and working it's way down to Ultegra over the next few years.
Has anyone else noticed the current wired Di2 has not gotten below Ultegra? Perhaps the technology is too inherently expensive to go down any more levels to 105 or below.
Has anyone else noticed the current wired Di2 has not gotten below Ultegra? Perhaps the technology is too inherently expensive to go down any more levels to 105 or below.
I wouldn't be surprised to see wireless Di2 in the next couple years. No technical reasons it couldn't be done right now.
11-04-17, 01:23 PM
#10
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They upgrade the high end groups, then they upgrade the low end groups a couple of years later. The new Sora R3000 and Claris R2000 are updated with hidden shift cables like all the other groups now. They're actually pretty nice groups, good enough for 95% of cyclists.
11-04-17, 01:39 PM
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I highly doubt that. Computer-controlled servo motors are hardly ground-breaking technology, and their job on derailleurs is pretty simple. I'm thinking that Shimano just wants to milk it at the higher levels before trickling it down further.
I wouldn't be surprised to see wireless Di2 in the next couple years. No technical reasons it couldn't be done right now.
I wouldn't be surprised to see wireless Di2 in the next couple years. No technical reasons it couldn't be done right now.
How do they make a 105 or Tiagra level set of shifters without making the Ultegra or D/A suddenly look like a rip-off for what they mechanically are (4 mouse buttons and a brake lever)? Even the FD/RD face a similar problem.
11-04-17, 02:02 PM
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Quite easily if you look at them, 105 have alu levers, where as Ultegra has carbon, and Tiagra is 10 speed, where as everything above is 11 (at the moment), with Sora being 9 and Claris being 8. Having the ergonomics of as many as possible makes a lot of sense, as many riders will have multiple bikes, so the feel will be the same is using Shimano over different ones, and you have less SKU's with the hood covers.
11-04-17, 02:12 PM
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Quite easily if you look at them, 105 have alu levers, where as Ultegra has carbon, and Tiagra is 10 speed, where as everything above is 11 (at the moment), with Sora being 9 and Claris being 8. Having the ergonomics of as many as possible makes a lot of sense, as many riders will have multiple bikes, so the feel will be the same is using Shimano over different ones, and you have less SKU's with the hood covers.
Do you make the shifters agnostic WRT number of gears? In which case you devalue the upper-tier group parts. They're mouse buttons after all, and it really shouldn't matter. I honestly forgot Ultegra even used carbon levers and not alloy. It matters little to all but weight weenies, certainly if ergonomics are equivalent for what the upcharge is.
Or.
Do you make the shifters speed specific? And piss off anyone and everyone wanting to upgrade down the line piecemeal where necessary (think of the people boned by the ETube firmware update breaking 6770 and 6870 compatibility)...requiring them to buy an entirely new group, when they shouldn't have to?
Either way, you annoy your consumers...and meanwhile Shimano is probably happy with Di2 sales volume and the margin.
11-04-17, 03:06 PM
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Do you make the shifters speed specific? And piss off anyone and everyone wanting to upgrade down the line piecemeal where necessary (think of the people boned by the ETube firmware update breaking 6770 and 6870 compatibility)...requiring them to buy an entirely new group, when they shouldn't have to?
11-04-17, 06:11 PM
#18
Not sure where they can go. There is only so many ways to build a bike and at this point is all about iterating the iterations to make it look fresh. However my wishlist include 105 DI2, cheaper hydro discs, better selection of smaller chainrings/bigger cassettes and comparability between mtb derailleurs and road shifters.
11-04-17, 06:58 PM
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hydraulic over mechanical designed cvt cassettes? To increase + finite gear ratio while also smoothing mechanical adjustment errors. Would possibly eliminate the purpose for multi crank gears on a bicycle... hybrid "fixie" & dual sport? HFDS
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11-04-17, 08:07 PM
#21
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The question was for us to guess (or tell) what Shimano will bring next. 1x12 is my guess. I didn't say it was cool or uncool.
Reason I think that is they won't let SRAM take over the high-end MTB market. Not sure how serious that threat is to road bikes, but i recently saw a GCN show about 1x road bikes with SRAM group. Shimano won't let them win without a fight.
It would be good for everyone since two players in 1x12 will mean lower prices. it also will mean more gears going into lower component groups. If the price is right, 1x12 also would be good to displace the 2x9, or even 2x10 bikes.
If you don't think 1x12 is beneficial, you don't need to buy it. It will be along time before it would run into the lower more affordable groups. They still make 8-speed, so whatever you prefer will be available for a long time.
Reason I think that is they won't let SRAM take over the high-end MTB market. Not sure how serious that threat is to road bikes, but i recently saw a GCN show about 1x road bikes with SRAM group. Shimano won't let them win without a fight.
It would be good for everyone since two players in 1x12 will mean lower prices. it also will mean more gears going into lower component groups. If the price is right, 1x12 also would be good to displace the 2x9, or even 2x10 bikes.
If you don't think 1x12 is beneficial, you don't need to buy it. It will be along time before it would run into the lower more affordable groups. They still make 8-speed, so whatever you prefer will be available for a long time.
11-04-17, 08:28 PM
#22
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I hope so and believe we might be seeing a hint of that with official support for 34 tooth sprockets with the Ultegra 8050 GS derailleur.
Gravel and older recreational riders are looking for sub-compact cranks down to 46/30 and cassettes with 36 tooth sprockets. There is a thread with >250 posts about ultra compact cranks in the 50+ forum. Praxis, FSA and Sugino have responded to demand.I'm considering spending a considerable sum for the Sugino, money that Shimano would likely get if the had something to offer and will be purchasing a 8050 GS derailleur as soon as they become available because it supports a larger cassette.
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Last edited by TimothyH; 11-04-17 at 08:31 PM.
11-05-17, 10:42 AM
#24
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Presumably that will be the 95% of cyclists that can afford such frippery and buy Shimano. Just saying.
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