Heathpack 

Haha I was thinking that this thread is exactly what my Intro to Track experience was like.

carleton

I apologize for being rude.

I felt like instead of focusing on my questions, he wanted to call me out as a “Track outsider”, (which I felt I was not) and therefore my questions aren’t worth answering.

gsteinb

hmm I actually thought it was a comment on a 2000k watt sprint.

Doge

In case you missed it above:
USAC rules 1E4(c) - With the approval of USA Cycling Staff, riders who are Pro or category 1 on the road may be upgraded to category 2 on the track...

furiousferret

Hey we're fit brothers...or siblings!

Doge

Distinct differences in attitude between Carson and San Diego.

carleton

I highlighted the operative phrase. This is a subjective, fast tracked upgrade.

Basically, officials don’t think your son is ready for P/1/2 races. If he were, he’d be granted the upgrade.

If you want to avoid the subjective part, your son should get to a track, get on his bike, kick ass until people complain that he should be upgraded. Rinse. Repeat. Until Category = 1

rubiksoval

All about the politicking.

Doge

I doubt that is the issue, I just brought it up my kid as a example of a number of racers that don't bother, and the upgrades are important to kids. The certification process at the track is also too cumbersome. I am an irritant to many in this forum as well, but most know I track the juniors (now adults) from being a house parent, to trip manager to having house guests. So I get their views.

For upgrades I left it to my kid and I think he did it wrong. I expect if I contacted them it would be done. He doesn't want that. Generally we sit on upgrades about a year or so. It was going into a new discipline that didn't seem made sense to start from the bottom - and that irritates people too "sandbagging juniors" - while no longer juniors, it still holds.

ancker

I am 2+ hours from the two velodromes near me.
If it wasn't such a drive, I'd probably only race track.

Ttoc6

I raced track a few times when I lived in Seattle. Due to the outdoor track and the unpredictable nature of weather, it was hard to be consistent. I loved racing on the track, and now that I'm not near one I regret not doing it more. The community was always so great and welcoming.

carleton

It's actually all about racing.

Asking for an upgrade is secondary.

It simply is not. Period. Stop saying that.

This is like saying that having to pass a written test then a driving test to receive a driver's license is "too cumbersome". It's just silly.

If your son is interested in racing on the track, he'd do it. Period. Like every other person who has a certification. If 50, 60, and 70 year old people can do it, your son can do it. It sounds like you and/or your son simply think that you are better than the prescribed system and think that the rules simply don't apply to you. Cool. You can enjoy watching us race

If he were as good as you say he is, he'd have the upgrade. You can make your case here until your fingers are blue (you did this in the Track forum, too). It simply won't help.

It seems like you are very proud of your son and he seems like a fine, accomplished young man. But, not having time to complete an intro course is not everyone else's problem. It's not even your problem. t's your son's problem. If it were a big deal to him, he'd get it done. If he is in COS like you say he's been for over a year, then he could have easily gone to the OTC velodrome and to get certified.

Ygduf

Seems like you have your answer as to why people don't race track.

carleton

Further, Doge, what you haven't experienced is a few veteran racers coming off the track and saying to the director, "You gotta pull that guy. He's gonna take us all out. If he lines up on the boards for the next race, I'm going home."

With all due respect, I don't think you've ever ridden a track. Just because you think your son would be good at it isn't enough to get him into P/1 races.

The nicest thing I can say is you simply have no effing clue what you are talking about.

There is a reason that only a CAT4 is needed for Time Trials at Elites yet a CAT2 is needed for mass start races. Your son has only done one junior team sprint. He simply isn't qualified.

You can be "that parent" all you want. And the upgrade will simply stay "pending"...until your son proves he can do it.

carleton

You haven't answered. What's your reason? Or are you here just to comment on the comments

Heathpack 

I think he did answer.

Read the replies.

carleton

Doh. My bad.

Unfortunately, no one can bring a velodrome to people.

This is like saying, "I'd swim if an Olympic pool were closer." Cool. But what about the people who live near the pool. That's the first step. Get them in.

mattm

You would be a 3 at worst, since you’re a 1 on the road. (after a written quiz - it depends on the track)

That said, in my experience racing the 3’s in the track is more similar to 4’s on the road. It was scary, but maybe that’s just me.

mattm

I was thinking about this, and I found the (my?) answer.

Pros like Cav & Viviani mainly do track during the winter - when it’s cold. They aren’t racing on outdoor tracks - that’s a huge factor.

Marymoor is practically unusable in the winter (due to rain), and we Californians are so spoiled/weak that riding Hellyer (also uncovered) is less than ideal.

Every track should have a roof and heating. I’d race a ton at Hellyer if it was warm!! There’s your solution!

therhodeo

Like telling water it can be wet.

carleton

Then how do we explain Florida's dilemma? National teams from other countries (FRA, RUS) go there to train in the winter.

I'm willing to accept that the sport simply isn't interesting to many (any?) of you. But, I also want to ask before I assume.

I had gripes about TTown's race programs. As a fat boy (read: sprinter), I suffered every Saturday in "long" mass start races where a 10 lap scratch was the shortest of the day. I'm sort of a one-trick pony when it comes to Track talent. They didn't even offer any sprints at any time except for the Pros during their pro race series in the summer. I'm grateful to DLV and Alpenrose for their sprinter-friendly programs which are somewhat popular. Those programs listen.

Again, I'm not necessarily recruiting people over to the track. I was just wondering if there were some things (small or medium) that would make the addition (not transition) easier.

I've heard:

- Longer races.
- More friendly and inviting intro classes

as things that are pretty easy for directors to implement.


Moving a velodrome closer to everyone's home isn't so easy.

Doge

His license is pending because he hasn't signed his racing wavier. I'm at venues all the time without my kid, before I had kids, before I was married. I've always been "that guy" which is why I get piles of free stuff, but that has little to do with your question. Forget my kid and re-read what I posted above. It is not worth the hassle.

If you could show me the U23 Cat 1 road riders coming in at track Cat 5,4 and moving up, I'll say my info is just a regional one from spoiled SoCal kids. I tried to give you data points from the many low 20/teen elite racers I know and speak to. Seems getting new talent into track (from top road talent) is not working out, but maybe I'm wrong.

I've had a houseful of Cat 1 kids who think the track is cool, track riders - not-so-much. They don't want to deal with the process. That should, if you are listening, be data for exactly to what you asked. It was not distance, they love to get into cars and drive 4 hours. Going through a track cert class - nope.

As another example kid's collegiate club is/was 46 members with bike lockers and bike at the COS velodrome. If just 3 cadets would go to the Velodrome - they get to take the government van, paid for by you (there is also an endowment, the you part just sounded cool). But...none of them want to go through the process of getting on that track. We discussed this. So they take vans and trailers and piles of racers other places - but don't touch the COS Velodrome, 20 min away.
Boulder is closing too most likely (real estate) - right near CU. CU has a great team, they don't do track. Why? I talk to their coach a lot, not their riders, so I can't say. I just have not seen that Elite road riders think the barriers are worth it. Even Cat 1 track kids and national champs are leaving. I think (my guess, not told), they want to go where the competition is. The track is pretty closed to youth that want to transfer in, and you have validated that. So the new ones don't come, younger national champions leave, masters track guys stay and have their friends, and it slowly dies.
If you could show me different, I think you would not have posted here.


The track venues need to make it easier to welcome others in. So far, they seem the most closed and the most elite, but I don't know who buys it is all so difficult. Maybe open the doors and prove it is.

carleton

I haven't validated a god-danged thing you've ever written, doge.

You KEEP fussing about how the certification process is suuuuch a bother. OK. Fine. Move on then. JESUS CHRIST.

Here is some crazy math for you. You've been participating in this thread for 10 hours (check the time stamp on your first post). The normal weekend cert class at DLV is two 4-hour sessions. Some lecture, mostly riding.

You and your son LITERALLY could have finished the certification process with two hours to spare. But, nope. You'd rather fuss about it for 10 hrs...and counting.

Andy STi

Love the track and miss it dearly. Grew up racing Northbrook, Kenosha and Indy. All had great programs in the late '80s and '90s. Big fields and a nice variety of races. I lived between Northbrook and Kenosha in Northern IL. Took about 30ish min to get to either. Tuesday Kenosha, Thursday Northbrook and sometime Friday Indy. Best weeks were two nights of track and an MTB race on Sunday - now that screws with your body! Now the closest track is 3 hours away and it's program pales in comparison.

aaronmcd

For me at Hellyer, the 4 Saturday sessions required was a bit tough. I tend to do real rides or races on Saturdays, so spending 4 weeks of saturdays getting very little training or fun long rides in was a PITA. I get that getting comfortable on track is a good thing to do before racing of course. But regardless, its a pain.