indyfabz

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MRT2

I agree. These are the silver colored cleats. I use them on all my cycling shoes and they have just the right about of foot retention with an easy release.

pvillemasher

As with just about anything 'round here, there is little consensus.
I've ridden clipless for years. Whenever I ride one of my bikes with platform pedals it just feels weird, less secure, I dunno. Like driving a car without a seat belt, just not quite right. I don't think there's a big advantage for power or efficiency for me at the level I ride at.

I ride and absolutely recommend Speedplay pedals. So easy to clip out of, and you don't really clip in at all, you just pedal and it locks in.

PaulRivers

Started off using clipless. Shimano mountain spd's, speedplay (road), crank brothers, time atac's. 2 bike fittings. 2 or 3 different pairs of shoes. Several different sole inserts.

I read about Five Ten shoes being regular flat shoes with a specific rubber compound that grips flat pedals with pins strongly and gave them a try. They've made biking so much more enjoyable I've stopped using clipless completely.

General Convenience

With clipless I had to change shoes before a ride, bring an extra pair or shoes with me if I was riding to a destination to change into, then change back at the end of the ride, and remember to bring the shoes (an extra thing to remember) with me. Slick floors were an issue, walking around a significant distance was an issue, etc.

With five tens all that goes away. I change into shoes once and don't think about it again.

Comfort/Fatigue

Hotspots and numb feet were both problems I had with clipless, despite as I mentioned numerous fittings, shoes, pedal systems, etc.

With five tens my feet just stopped having hotspots and numbness.

Grip

Clipless gripped the pedal well.
So do five tens.
I used chrome shoes before the five tens and they did not grip the pedal as well. But five tens grip the pedal as strongly as clipless did for me except for pulling straight up.

I can see how clipless could be a more secure attachment system for racing when you're exhausted but all out sprinting for the finish line trying to work every last ounce of power out of your legs. But it's not an issue for the riding I'm doing.

Stability

With practice and double sided clipless pedals, it become almost automatic to clip in and out.
But it's still just more natural feeling with five ten flats. I dunno, it just makes riding more relaxing for me.

Power

There is a claim that racers are "pulling up" with clipless and producing more power, but studies that measured muscle activation using medical tools have debunked this. Pro racers unweight the pedal but they don't pull up. You can choose to pull up, but you're not using the most optimal movement pattern pro racers are using.

There is a claim that clipless is faster but that has also been mostly debunked by studies. Those studies are not perfect and often involve measuring the rider on an indoor bike, or on the flats. But there's no proof clipless is faster just conjecture.

Even if it was, most of my riding is for fun or as transportation. I know I'd lose time changing shoes with clipless.

Overall

I think clipless is way oversold, and most people who aren't racing would be happier with flats.There's so much less hassle after I stopped using clipless, and riding is just less work and more enjoyable for me.

surak

OP has same issue I had when I got tired of platforms: hunting for the right spot on the pedals. It's even worse and more annoying with platform pedals that have pins. I switched to SPD with Shimano M530s and use SH-56 cleats. Tipped over a couple times the first week of commuting but never all the way down and never accidentally unclipped even at the lowest tension. It's true clipless pedals probably aren't more efficient, but because pulling up activates different muscles while resting the normal pedaling ones, having clipless means you can make difficult climbs easier and get some recovery to boot. The only downside is extra hassle of having specific equipment, so the decision to go clipless is going to be personally weighing whether the benefits are worth the hassle. For me it's a no-brainer because the pedals are the primary engagement point for me when biking, so even a short couple blocks of not feeling like my foot is in the right place is enough to drive me mad.

Gurge

Ok. So there seems to be pros and cons to both. I use cages on my bike. But what is the advantage of clipless over clips? (It's really annoying to me the the clipless pefals are the ones with clips)

You ever say a word too many times and it sorta looses it's meaning to you for a moment?

caloso

Toe clips:

A) they'll scuff up your nice shoes
B) to really work, clips need to be used with straps, to cinch your foot in good and tight
C) but to get your foot out at a light, you have to reach down, loosen the strap and wriggle your foot out, which is a pretty big PITA

That's why anyone old enough or retro enough to have ridden with actual clips and straps can't believe how easy clipless pedals are: Wow, all I have to do is kick my heel out a few degrees? What could be simpler?

bcpriess

Pinned pedals are the bomb. I completely hated clipless, in particular the feeling of confinement and inability to walk normally with the shoes. VP VP-01's or Wellgo MG-1's are both fantastic options that I ride, and you get plenty of strength pulling on the back stroke. Feet are very securely planted on them.

NomarsGirl

Taking the plunge. Ordered Shimano A530 pedals and some SPD sandals. My local bike co-op will install them for me for $5 - I don't have the right tools. If nothing else, I'll work different muscles. I'm also hoping to get just a little faster since I should produce a bit more power.

pdlamb

2. If you're a male and have ever landed on the top tube of a bike, you can appreciate this reason.

3. Some people argue with this point, but I think they're mistaken. Lifting part or all of the weight of the leg coming up means more-to-all the power you put into the downward pedal stroke goes into propelling you forward. If you're into isometrics, you can push down on the upward-moving leg to keep your foot securely anchored, but that's not going to move you forward. It may not seem like much, but that little bit of relief on every pedal stroke over a long ride adds up.

You can get rigid mountain bike shoes, if sole rigidity is the only problem. I wore out a pair of Pearl Izumis that had a stiff shank, and I'm working on wearing out pairs #2 and #3 of Sidis. All of those are/were stiff enough to alleviate hot spots, and make walking easy. "Walking" includes into/out of work, the house, convenience stores, snack shops, rest stops, etc.

MRT2

Toe clips are way more dangerous than clipless. First, they are designed to be worn with straps, and old fashioned cleated shoes, which are basically obsolete and hard if not impossible to find. So you have people riding using toe clips with tennis or running shoes, which is less than optimal. And, a lot easier to release with clipless than it is with toe clips.

dksix

I've never tried the Egg Beaters. I use the cheapest Candies, Candy 1's which have the plastic body around what I assume is an Egg Beater spindle. In my mind they would be a little easier to clip in to because of the platform. I'm able to just place the toe of my shoes on the platform and slide it forward. The clip rotates when the front of the cleat hits the clip and it rotates until it's locked in ( I hope I'm explaining that adequately).

I've used several different SPD pedals from a 2 or 3 manufacturers and I had no issues getting clipped in or out of SPD's I do feel that the Crank Brothers is just easier. I used SPD-SL on my road bike for a season, I think I fumbled getting clipped into those every single time. My road shoes are vented in the soles and sides so when cold weather started I switched to my mountain shoes and Crank Brothers pedals. When spring came around I just couldn't go back to the SPD-SL's and now use the Candies both the bikes I ride clippless on.

I have a big wide set of flats on my MTB and wear a pair of 510 Freeriders with them. It's unreal how planted that combo feels but it was a pricey combination.

JohnDThompson 

There are situations where "pulling up" is important, e.g. sprints and jamming up hills. I have literally torn the soles completely off my shoes pulling up in situations like that. That's why you can still find track riders strapping their shoes onto their clipless pedals.

N.B. that can't happen with toeclips, as the strap takes the load from pulling up, rather than the shoe.

LesterOfPuppets

I like SPDs. 520s are nice. Shoes with recessed cleat mounts are easy to walk in. I do desk jobs wearing SPDs all day. Walking/standing jobs, I'll change shoes when I get to work.

sw20

I currently use these on my road bike while I decide whether or not to go full clipless.
Wiggle Zefal Half Toe-Clips 45 Flat Pedals
There were a few times my foot had slipped off the pedals when using flats so bought these as they were cheap and have to say I can't fault them! Holds my feet in position and are easy to get in and out of, making it a little harder for me to justify clipless.....

MePoocho

surak, I've been using 'INTEY' flats with the hex pins on the leading and trailing edges. My issue is the same as you state. I never seem to place my feet on the pedals the same way twice. And trying to re-position is difficult due to the aggressiveness of the hex pins. At least with the clipless pedals I'll always hit the spot I like on the pedals. I'm not looking for more power or better speed just ease of foot placement.

I guess that I'm to anal about where my feet are....... Thanks for the support.

Gurge

I never thought anyone would try to use the toeclips without straps. The it's just a flimsy piece of plastic or metal with no purpose. But I have mine fairly tight and can easily kick my foot in and out if them and don't get any lift off the pedal on my upstrokes climbing. I mean I can see jammng your shoes into them may not be great for fancy/expensive shoes but I dont have anything fancy/expensive. And unless they were dress shoes I don't really see the issue either way.

cyccommute 

Those "cages" you use on your bike have traditionally be called "toe clips". They may, or may not, have been used with shoes with cleats on the bottom of them. When shoes that engage the cleat on the shoes via a spring mechanism on the pedals, it would have been extremely confusing to talk about them as "clips" since that term was already being used. And, since the new pedals were made without "toe clips", they were deemed to be "clipless".

On the other hand, why "toe clips" were so named, I have no idea. They really should have been called "toe cages" but I suspect that people would have been afraid of the implications of that term.

As for advantages, the cleat on the shoe engages the pedal without all that fussiness of trying to flip over a toe clip. This is probably more of an advantage in mountain biking then in road riding since mountain bike pedals tend to be double sided. If you've ever tried to flip up a toe clip on steep trail, you can see this advantage immediately.

There is a bit of an advantage to using toe clips and cleats as well as clipless and cleats when pedaling as well. You can pull up pedals with both to toe clips and clipless to get more power for climbing hills or for acceleration. Most of the "flat pedals are all you need" folks will even admit that. When you need to pull up on the pedals, it's nice to have something that is readily available rather so toe clips and clipless have that advantage.

And, finally, there is something to be said for having a solid attachment (but not too solid) to the bike when riding at speed or over rough terrain. Bouncing off the pedals in the middle of a rock garden is probably going to hurt your dangly bits, your stickiouty bits (arms and legs) and your pride, in that order. Even if you do crash, you are less likely to break something important if you don't stick out the stickiouty in a vain effort "catch yourself". "Catching yourself" is about as useless as "bracing for impact". Neither is the correct approach to a crash.

ptempel

Most clipless systems come with some degree of float. So you can tailor it to your liking by playing with that. Also, a good fitter will be able to use cleat wedges to both angle the shoe and raise the shoe to take foot pronation, knee tracking and leg length discrepancies into account. Having said all that, your body is fairly remarkable at adapting to less than ideal positions. I recall watching a recent video of Emma Pooley getting a bike fit on the GCN channel. The fitter discovered that she has a leg length discrepancy of about 4mm. She rode professonally with that for years without knowing about it before she joined GCN. She won the TT world champs in the past, so I would assume that she wasn't "affected" that much by the less than ideal position.

Edit: Found the video.

79pmooney

Do you have a source for that? Pedals with more restraint (toeclips, straps pulled tight and traditional slotted cleats have been used since 1895, often for the full cycling life of the rider with no apparent issues. (45 years and 150,000 miles to date for me plus another 20k on no-float clipless.)

Ben

79pmooney

Yes, all true. But there is one place where toeclips reign supreme. On fix gears ridden down serious hills. (Also on the velodrome for the really strong sprinters and kilo types) Times and places where you REALLY don't want to have your foot pull out. (A pull-out at 40 RPM on a 42-17 gear is a pullout oat 200 RPM where the pedal never stops. Ain't going to end well. And the longest lasting damage will probably be from that pedal with all of your weight and inertia behind it slamming into the back of your ankle, not the ensuing crash. And yes, periodically you will forget to release the buckle. But ... falling over at 0-3 mph pales compared to the above!

Ben

WNCGoater

^^This^^ Same here on both accounts.

CliffordK

I must disagree.

A) steel clips do scuff the shoes. Plastic clips are less damaging to shoes. Probably a bit, but minimal.

B) Yep, cinch them up to feel right. Although, if one just wants the feet positioned on the pedals, half clips might be ok.

C) Nope... Without cleats, pretty much one pushes the feet down and they come out. With cleats, one twists the foot very much like with clipless, and they come out.

The big reason for pre-loosening the straps is it is slightly easier to get the feet out, but MUCH easier to get them back in with the straps loosened.

CliffordK

I've gone with SPD. I haven't tried Crank brothers, or other recessed clip brands, but do like the walkable shoes.

With SPD, both Shimano and Wellgo make good pedals.

I think the Wellgo pedals are slightly easier to adjust than Shimano. Shimano, however, are the easiest to disassemble and rebuild. Either work well.

XPEDO makes the lightest of the SPD compatable pedals, with the M-Force 8 pedals being a good double sided pedal, and the R-Force being a good single sided pedal. They do seem to be grippy, and sometimes I think they've grabbed the shoe in the wrong spot.

MKS EZY makes removable SPD pedals. It might be an option for some riders, and I think they've now migrated to full SPD compatible, although I haven't tried them myself. Wellgo may also have detachable pedals. In theory, with the MKS EZY, one could rapidly swap between pedal types, or even toeclips.

LesterOfPuppets

Any toeclips leave marks on shoes, IME.