Are Japanese made bikes better quality?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Are Japanese made bikes better quality?
Seems like the best cars and fishing reels are made in Japan. How about bicycles?
#2
Banned
You willing to go hand made frames , and pay the price to do so?
Shimano makes fishing reels , But, their bike component manufacturing is spread far and wide across SE Asia.
Depending on price ...
...
Shimano makes fishing reels , But, their bike component manufacturing is spread far and wide across SE Asia.
Depending on price ...
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 06-19-18 at 12:13 PM.
#4
No longer active
Exactly: in comparison to ... what?
And during which era? And custom or mass-produced?
They've had really great periods as an industry, with some brilliant designers; and they have their share of the highest quality custom builders as well.
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And during which era? And custom or mass-produced?
They've had really great periods as an industry, with some brilliant designers; and they have their share of the highest quality custom builders as well.
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#5
Senior Member
I think it's just a general question rather than specifics. The OP's only just joined the forum with a total of 5 posts, I'd imagine he's relatively new to cycling or just starting and isn't familiar with the main manufacturers and what their origins are and wisely is doing some background research to steer him in the right direction.
If that is the case I think it's a very logical question as they generally have a reputation for providing higher quality goods than a lot of what comes out of say China, you can also throw motorcycles, cameras, electrical goods / tvs' / calculators and lawn mowers in there as well ... shame they don't make more widely available bikes.
If that is the case I think it's a very logical question as they generally have a reputation for providing higher quality goods than a lot of what comes out of say China, you can also throw motorcycles, cameras, electrical goods / tvs' / calculators and lawn mowers in there as well ... shame they don't make more widely available bikes.
#6
No longer active
And I think [MENTION=462589]Jon T[/MENTION]'s reply was also quite logical. Here's why...
For the sake of discussion, let's compare two Japanese bikes with two Italian bikes...
First up, let's compare a student-grade Atami cruiser to a custom-ordered De Rosa Professional. The Atami, while a reasonably fun neighborhood ride, is sort of a nothing with regard to the De Rosa; it's not even in the same league in almost every possible way you could compare them. If you were to take the Atami as representative of all Japanese bikes, it would come up lacking relative to classic Italian racing bikes, as well as do a disservice to many great Japanese frame-makers. On the other hand...
Let's now compare a Kalavinka Super Exhibition to... I dunno, say- an an early 1970s Colnago condorino (yes, Colnago actually made a few city bikes, once upon a time). The situation with the Atami becomes reversed, and you'd never have an inkling of the glories of a high-end Colnago racing frame.
So: in comparison to what, and when? Regardless of its intention, the OP's question is too broad for any less general answer.
I'd suggest maybe looking up Sheldon Brown's article on 'Japanese bikes in the U.S. market' for starters, then looking up some of the brands & builders mentioned therein via posts about them in the C&V forum.
_
For the sake of discussion, let's compare two Japanese bikes with two Italian bikes...
First up, let's compare a student-grade Atami cruiser to a custom-ordered De Rosa Professional. The Atami, while a reasonably fun neighborhood ride, is sort of a nothing with regard to the De Rosa; it's not even in the same league in almost every possible way you could compare them. If you were to take the Atami as representative of all Japanese bikes, it would come up lacking relative to classic Italian racing bikes, as well as do a disservice to many great Japanese frame-makers. On the other hand...
Let's now compare a Kalavinka Super Exhibition to... I dunno, say- an an early 1970s Colnago condorino (yes, Colnago actually made a few city bikes, once upon a time). The situation with the Atami becomes reversed, and you'd never have an inkling of the glories of a high-end Colnago racing frame.
So: in comparison to what, and when? Regardless of its intention, the OP's question is too broad for any less general answer.
I'd suggest maybe looking up Sheldon Brown's article on 'Japanese bikes in the U.S. market' for starters, then looking up some of the brands & builders mentioned therein via posts about them in the C&V forum.
_
Last edited by DIMcyclist; 06-19-18 at 08:10 AM.
#7
Senior Member
Can’t generalize. Every market has its own high-end, low-end products. And some manufacturers try and get by based on nationality even though they farm out the manufacturing to more economical countries.
#8
Banned
But now the big OEM multi brand companies most come from are on Taiwan , the UJB was in the 80s,
then Yen-dollar costs rose, and Giant and Merida beat their costs and vastly grew,
by being who made bikes for others.
...
then Yen-dollar costs rose, and Giant and Merida beat their costs and vastly grew,
by being who made bikes for others.
...
#10
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I can't begin to compare the best because I've never ridden or been exposed to the best. Likewise for the worst. However I know that there are bad and good bikes made everywhere. Doesn't matter what country it is.
Japan had been making fine examples of bikes even in the 70's, maybe before. As well they also made some pretty lousy bikes too. Just like every other country.
Japan had been making fine examples of bikes even in the 70's, maybe before. As well they also made some pretty lousy bikes too. Just like every other country.
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In terms of quantity presumably most of the Japanese bikes are produced for domestic market and sold at their supermarkets. Those bikes are clunky like bikes sold anywhere else at supermarkets, though presumably are a tad more practical. There is a spread in type and quality of bikes produced in practically any country active in the area.
#12
Senior Member
Yes, Japan produced some of the finest mass produced bikes ever made for a brief period in the mid 1980's. Then, it was off to Taiwan & the robots in the 90's. Look for a mid 80's Shogun Samurai or Centurion Ironman. Built with Tange 1 tubing these bikes were in a class of their own. They compared with the finest offerings from Italy at about 1/2 the price.
#13
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Thread Starter
In terms of quantity presumably most of the Japanese bikes are produced for domestic market and sold at their supermarkets. Those bikes are clunky like bikes sold anywhere else at supermarkets, though presumably are a tad more practical. There is a spread in type and quality of bikes produced in practically any country active in the area.
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#15
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Most "Japanese" brands are made by subcontractors in Taiwan or China these days, just like everyone else. The quality is likely comparable to any other maker.
1980-1990 Japanese-made steel frames were excellent value for money. Miyata, Fuji, Univega, Bridgestone, Centurion etc all sold excellent quality steel frames back then. My first racing bike was a 1988 Miyata 914 that had a beautifully made lugged and triple butted frame. Admittedly, I think it was a $700 bike which was not cheap back then.
1980-1990 Japanese-made steel frames were excellent value for money. Miyata, Fuji, Univega, Bridgestone, Centurion etc all sold excellent quality steel frames back then. My first racing bike was a 1988 Miyata 914 that had a beautifully made lugged and triple butted frame. Admittedly, I think it was a $700 bike which was not cheap back then.
#16
Senior Member
Poke around here for a few days and then report back....
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Yes, Japan produced some of the finest mass produced bikes ever made for a brief period in the mid 1980's. Then, it was off to Taiwan & the robots in the 90's. Look for a mid 80's Shogun Samurai or Centurion Ironman. Built with Tange 1 tubing these bikes were in a class of their own. They compared with the finest offerings from Italy at about 1/2 the price.
and still are but at a much higher price point. Most of the Japanese reel companies contract out to other countries.
#18
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Depends on the reel. For spin casters (aka "bait dunkers"), maybe. I wouldn't know because I don't dunk bait. But for fly reels you won't find many better than those made here in the US.
That would depend too. Back in the 80s and 90s, Japanese bikes ranged from good stuff to bad stuff. None of it was really exceptional, however. Italian bikes were where it was at but they were kind of quirky. And when it came to mountain bikes, it was American all the way! In some respects, depending on the manufacturer, American bikes are still damned nice. I have 4 US built frames (2 Deans, a Moots and a Cannondale) that are of far better quality than any Japanese bike I've ever owned.
That would depend too. Back in the 80s and 90s, Japanese bikes ranged from good stuff to bad stuff. None of it was really exceptional, however. Italian bikes were where it was at but they were kind of quirky. And when it came to mountain bikes, it was American all the way! In some respects, depending on the manufacturer, American bikes are still damned nice. I have 4 US built frames (2 Deans, a Moots and a Cannondale) that are of far better quality than any Japanese bike I've ever owned.
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#19
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Be interesting to know where say Nikon / Cannon cameras or any of their other well know products are actually made.
#20
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#21
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Japanese Bikes
Most "Japanese" brands are made by subcontractors in Taiwan or China these days, just like everyone else. The quality is likely comparable to any other maker.
1980-1990 Japanese-made steel frames were excellent value for money. Miyata, Fuji, Univega, Bridgestone, Centurion etc all sold excellent quality steel frames back then. My first racing bike was a 1988 Miyata 914 that had a beautifully made lugged and triple butted frame. Admittedly, I think it was a $700 bike which was not cheap back then.
1980-1990 Japanese-made steel frames were excellent value for money. Miyata, Fuji, Univega, Bridgestone, Centurion etc all sold excellent quality steel frames back then. My first racing bike was a 1988 Miyata 914 that had a beautifully made lugged and triple butted frame. Admittedly, I think it was a $700 bike which was not cheap back then.
#22
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Depends on the reel. For spin casters (aka "bait dunkers"), maybe. I wouldn't know because I don't dunk bait. But for fly reels you won't find many better than those made here in the US.
That would depend too. Back in the 80s and 90s, Japanese bikes ranged from good stuff to bad stuff. None of it was really exceptional, however. Italian bikes were where it was at but they were kind of quirky. And when it came to mountain bikes, it was American all the way! In some respects, depending on the manufacturer, American bikes are still damned nice. I have 4 US built frames (2 Deans, a Moots and a Cannondale) that are of far better quality than any Japanese bike I've ever owned.
That would depend too. Back in the 80s and 90s, Japanese bikes ranged from good stuff to bad stuff. None of it was really exceptional, however. Italian bikes were where it was at but they were kind of quirky. And when it came to mountain bikes, it was American all the way! In some respects, depending on the manufacturer, American bikes are still damned nice. I have 4 US built frames (2 Deans, a Moots and a Cannondale) that are of far better quality than any Japanese bike I've ever owned.
#23
Senior Member
Japan makes some cool bikes you can't buy here. Most don't know that Bridgestone still makes bikes.
#24
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And as far as vintage bikes go, let's not forget the Lotus (Tsunoda) frames designed by Cinelli back in the mid-1980s.
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#25
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Exceptional compared to what? Custom builders and small shops? Really? The Japenese made excellent mass produced bikes that can stand up against any other large scale manufacturer. If you want to compare apples to apples, it is tough--if not impossible--to beat what the Japanese bike industry was doing during its heyday.
And not a insignificant number of those "Japanese" bikes were made by Giant in Taiwan. Many Schwinns came from there too.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!