This is hard
07-03-18, 05:57 PM
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This is hard
Road cyclist here who finally went and bought a mtb so I can start riding wth my friends. I ended up with a Salsa Timberjack hard tail 27.5 plus, WTB Ranger 2.8 tires (tubeless), almost all SRAM NX1, Rockshox Judy fork (the new one).
First off, this stuff is much harder than I thought. I thought all the endurance from road cycling would transfer over nicely but I'm a high cadence rider and I get SUPER tired in trail climbs. I have my fork set up to my weight (90-100 psi) but I feel like so much of my power is being sucked into that thing. Especially out of the saddle, it seems tough to really put power down... when get out of the saddle on my road bike it's so fun to take off like a rocket. With this the fat tires and fork suck it all up. How do you guys traverse super steep climbs then? Especially with roots and rocks.
Sometimes I lock out the fork which helps somewhat. I can't imagine a full suspension bike in this regard.
Things are much nicer when I'm set back on my saddle and it starts to feel like i'm really putting power down but some stuff seems so technical or the climb is so steep I need to get up....how much time do you guys spend in saddle vs out on technical stuff?
Otherwise having a great time with mtb but it seems it's either a slog or extremely fun. No middle, haha. Maybe I need to stick to fire roads and do squats for a bit or something...but rolling single track is so fun.
First off, this stuff is much harder than I thought. I thought all the endurance from road cycling would transfer over nicely but I'm a high cadence rider and I get SUPER tired in trail climbs. I have my fork set up to my weight (90-100 psi) but I feel like so much of my power is being sucked into that thing. Especially out of the saddle, it seems tough to really put power down... when get out of the saddle on my road bike it's so fun to take off like a rocket. With this the fat tires and fork suck it all up. How do you guys traverse super steep climbs then? Especially with roots and rocks.
Sometimes I lock out the fork which helps somewhat. I can't imagine a full suspension bike in this regard.
Things are much nicer when I'm set back on my saddle and it starts to feel like i'm really putting power down but some stuff seems so technical or the climb is so steep I need to get up....how much time do you guys spend in saddle vs out on technical stuff?
Otherwise having a great time with mtb but it seems it's either a slog or extremely fun. No middle, haha. Maybe I need to stick to fire roads and do squats for a bit or something...but rolling single track is so fun.
07-03-18, 09:53 PM
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Mountain Biker makes you a better road biker and road biker makes you a better mountain biker.
Hang in there and it will all come together.
I'm a masher...so I shift to a higher gear and power up the hills. Others grind up in low gears.
Hang in there and it will all come together.
I'm a masher...so I shift to a higher gear and power up the hills. Others grind up in low gears.
07-04-18, 07:14 AM
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Maybe a silly question but are you using a dedicated shock/fork pump to fill and check pressure? The reason for asking is that if not you will leak most of the pressure with a regular pump.
I have a dual suspension but can lock out both fork and rear shock and get little bob at either so getting power to the ground fro climbs. Even with yours being a hard tail it sounds like the fork still doesn't have enough pressure especially if lock out is not helping. Did you buy from a LBS that can look at the fork for you? I really believe the fork setup is not right.
I took time off from MTB for over ten years. Glad I waited a bought a modern bike as I would have given up on my old 26 tire machine. Keep pushing though as it will get better as you've got a nice bike.
I have a dual suspension but can lock out both fork and rear shock and get little bob at either so getting power to the ground fro climbs. Even with yours being a hard tail it sounds like the fork still doesn't have enough pressure especially if lock out is not helping. Did you buy from a LBS that can look at the fork for you? I really believe the fork setup is not right.
I took time off from MTB for over ten years. Glad I waited a bought a modern bike as I would have given up on my old 26 tire machine. Keep pushing though as it will get better as you've got a nice bike.
07-04-18, 07:31 AM
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If you have the ability to lock out your fork, then get in the habit of doing it on climbs. I have that option too. It would be nice if I had it on an automatic switch though because I simply just forget a lot out of lack of convenience by trigger fingers over it. More often than not, I forget to "unlock" it on the descend and it might be a couple of hours before I realize it again if I am not on something too terribly bumpy.
07-04-18, 10:16 AM
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Yeah I do have a dedicated shock pump and it is pressurized to spec but maybe i'll stiffen it up a bit. The lock out is great but it still does have a little bob to it like you guys know. I think I just need to get stronger... and also i'm thinking once I KNOW my trails I'll be able to keep that momentum up. It also takes a lot of energy paying attention to the path.
This morning I did 16 miles on a mostly flat dirt bridle trail to get some miles in and that was really fun in its own right. I appreciate the advice!
07-04-18, 03:52 PM
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Up short punchy climbs standing is fine, yeah you waste some energy but if it is only for a couple seconds no big deal. Longer climbs sit down. If you are one of those people that wants to stand then the lock out is going to be your friend. The rear suspension these days on a quality full suspension bike won't bob much if at all when standing while climbing, mine doesn't but the fork sure does. Of coarse you can always just swap on a rigid fork 
.
.
07-04-18, 04:07 PM
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Don't use a weight chart to set up your forks, use the static sag method. Hopefully there should be an O-ring on one of the legs. There's a pretty comprehensive set of instructions here https://www.sram.com/sites/default/f...sh_rev_a_2.pdf I'd be aiming for the lower end of the sag range initially. Also, if you haven't got it, get a remote fork lockout, makes the lock out a lot more useful.
07-04-18, 04:14 PM
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LOL...never thought about that, but true. The real problem lies when you are addicted to both, want to go do both, and can't find the sweet spot yet. I was building a hybrid for this reason, but it it is still lacking some things on geometry on the road, and 700x38c in the dirt sucks. Next bike will be a Surly Disk Trucker customized without drops and 26" tires or a Troll and hope this overcomes some things for me and still gives me the ability to conquer the best of both worlds at the same time. But even one of those bikes is nothing like having a true gravity bike or full suspension if you are going to that kind of technical. That's where you are going to really appreciate those high gears and cadence rather than pushing the hybrid up
If you have the ability to lock out your fork, then get in the habit of doing it on climbs. I have that option too. It would be nice if I had it on an automatic switch though because I simply just forget a lot out of lack of convenience by trigger fingers over it. More often than not, I forget to "unlock" it on the descend and it might be a couple of hours before I realize it again if I am not on something too terribly bumpy.
If you have the ability to lock out your fork, then get in the habit of doing it on climbs. I have that option too. It would be nice if I had it on an automatic switch though because I simply just forget a lot out of lack of convenience by trigger fingers over it. More often than not, I forget to "unlock" it on the descend and it might be a couple of hours before I realize it again if I am not on something too terribly bumpy.
Last edited by Trevtassie; 07-04-18 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Grammar
07-05-18, 10:54 AM
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I find staying sitting, at the very front of the seat where it is most uncomfortable, is where I get the best climbing potential and least amount of bob. I also run my fork at 20% sag instead of the 30% most recommend.
07-06-18, 08:01 AM
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Although I am not super experienced with road cycling, I think it is fair to say that an hour riding singletrack takes more effort than an hour on the road. And your average speed will be much lower. It's a different experience. Even if your bike is setup perfectly.
07-06-18, 08:39 AM
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Not sure it takes more effort, but it is different. Road cycling is sustained effort, trail riding is more like interval training, hard effort, ease off, hard effort ease off, OMG why did I try to climb this, walk.
07-06-18, 12:57 PM
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Before you start stiffening the fork up, give it some time and work on technique. Climbing and hammering on a suspended MTB is not the same technique as road riding.
It takes a while to learn to ride like a mountain bike like a mountain biker rather than a road rider.
The good news is that you probably already have a lot of the engine built... just needs some tuning.
It takes a while to learn to ride like a mountain bike like a mountain biker rather than a road rider.
The good news is that you probably already have a lot of the engine built... just needs some tuning.
07-07-18, 11:47 AM
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I got the same bike. It’s not speedy! That’s not the point. There are MTB’s, even full suspension ones, that are better at that. They are for XC racing. The Timberjack is a friendly oafish trail bike. Stop trying to go fast and work on your wheelies instead.
07-07-18, 05:43 PM
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haha oh no my bike is oafish! i'll focus on plugging along. Went for another trail ride with a couple people and it was way more fun with friends... learned a few things too.
07-07-18, 06:40 PM
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I'm maybe a year or two ahead you on this. Road biker for 5 years then I bought a (Cheap) mountain bike. First impressions were, there's never any recovery time on the mountain bike. The descents are short and over quickly, it seemed like I was always climbing. Never got a rest. This year did a mountain bike clinic trying to learn some more advanced skills and man was I under-biked and out of my depth. It's different and super challenging but that's what I like about it. I just hope I'm able to learn to learn some of the things that are hanging me up now and build confidence on the trails over all.
07-07-18, 10:34 PM
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The big difference in effort between road riding and mountain biking is the bear.
On the road you ride at your pace, hard or easy as you choose.
Mountain biking is more like wresting a bear. You don't rest when you get tired, you rest when the bear gets tired.
On the road you ride at your pace, hard or easy as you choose.
Mountain biking is more like wresting a bear. You don't rest when you get tired, you rest when the bear gets tired.
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Still stupid and seriously neglected..
07-08-18, 07:04 AM
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Personally, on a plus bike, I don’t feel that suspension is entirely necessary. I ride a rigid bike on plus tires (29x3.0 Rangers on the Scraper 45 rims) and I’ve never missed a suspension fork. I guess it partly depends on what kind of terrain you’re riding too.
07-08-18, 10:33 AM
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True enough, but as I said, depending on what kind of terrain you’re riding, a plus tire like the OP is using can make suspension superfluous. His main concern is his original post was the climbing, and I don’t think anyone can argue that a rigid bike doesn’t climb better with all other factors being equal.
07-13-18, 06:25 PM
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I brought the fork up to about 108 PSI. Not as plush but way more peppy. Also I've been riding and learning the same trail and I'm getting stronger and keeping momentum. Next stop dropper post... where I like my seat... well on steeper drops my setting seems a bit dangerous. I can see why so many people run these.
