Replacing rear dropout
09-20-18, 06:09 AM
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Replacing rear dropout
Hello
I have interesting frame (main tubes are titanium, forks - front and rear are steel).
drive side dropout is damaged, I can see that someone tried to weld something there...
So rear dropouts are in need of replace (both to keep symmetry).
I would like to fix that frame but have many questions.
Is there a sense to do it? how to start with it? where to get dropouts?
(I'm not allowed to post photo... I uploaded to some album here, can admin edit my post with image of my problem? thanks)
I have interesting frame (main tubes are titanium, forks - front and rear are steel).
drive side dropout is damaged, I can see that someone tried to weld something there...
So rear dropouts are in need of replace (both to keep symmetry).
I would like to fix that frame but have many questions.
Is there a sense to do it? how to start with it? where to get dropouts?
(I'm not allowed to post photo... I uploaded to some album here, can admin edit my post with image of my problem? thanks)
09-20-18, 08:09 AM
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Welcome to the forums. Wow! That has really been butchered! You're going to need new drive side stays too, which will be a job for a frame builder. However, there still may be an issue, depending on how the stays are attached to the titanium main triangle. I'd like pictures of the complete frame and the stay attachment points to the seat lug and bottom bracket shell, to help members determine if it can and is worth saving. If you post your locations, some members may be to suggest a local framebuilder. Picture assist....
Last edited by T-Mar; 09-20-18 at 08:13 AM.
09-20-18, 07:31 PM
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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09-20-18, 08:15 PM
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I agree with @T-Mar , some more photos would be nice. Perhaps a brand and model???
I am having a little bit of trouble orienting myself on your photo, but that looks like the rear drive side dropout that has been worked on, with the non-driveside dropout in the background.
I can't tell how much of the chainstay/seatstay has been damaged. As mentioned, you are likely needing to replace the entire driveside triangle, and perhaps even the non-driveside triangle.
An option might be to try some MTB rear dropouts. It would change the look of the entire rear-end of your bike, but could potentially save the chainstays & seatstays.
https://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle...r-or-26er.html
You could potentially carefully remove the disc bits (or keep and use them).
The MTB dropouts would change the original character of the bike, but could fit well with a rather eclectic look.
Find a better welder. Either oxy-acetylene brazing, or TIG welding.
Are you sure your bike is Titanium, and not a steel/aluminum composite frame? Several brands did that in the 80's or 90's.
I am having a little bit of trouble orienting myself on your photo, but that looks like the rear drive side dropout that has been worked on, with the non-driveside dropout in the background.
I can't tell how much of the chainstay/seatstay has been damaged. As mentioned, you are likely needing to replace the entire driveside triangle, and perhaps even the non-driveside triangle.
An option might be to try some MTB rear dropouts. It would change the look of the entire rear-end of your bike, but could potentially save the chainstays & seatstays.
https://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle...r-or-26er.html
You could potentially carefully remove the disc bits (or keep and use them).
The MTB dropouts would change the original character of the bike, but could fit well with a rather eclectic look.
Find a better welder. Either oxy-acetylene brazing, or TIG welding.
Are you sure your bike is Titanium, and not a steel/aluminum composite frame? Several brands did that in the 80's or 90's.
09-21-18, 03:00 AM
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Frame is raleigh Dynatech delta 525. it is a mixt of metals... main tubes are titanium, lugs are aluminium (main tubes are glued in), front fork and rear triangle is steel.
I was thinking of use part of rear triangles from other bike (if I could find ones with tubes large enough to fit original stays inside and braze it. - so dropout part effectively will be a lug with chain and seat stays brazed inside.
not sure if thats worth it...
I was thinking of use part of rear triangles from other bike (if I could find ones with tubes large enough to fit original stays inside and braze it. - so dropout part effectively will be a lug with chain and seat stays brazed inside.
not sure if thats worth it...
09-21-18, 04:15 AM
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Interesting concept of doing an overlap seam. You may be able to hide the joint with by feathering it out flat.
Preferably I'd do the same thing to both sides, although I don't know how important it is for both rear triangles to have exactly the same flex characteristics.
You could also match tubes, and cut an internal reinforcement insert, and braze it all together with butt joints.
If you inspect the NDS rear dropout, you may find a brand, and may be able to get an exact match if it is Campagnolo, or another big brand.
Preferably I'd do the same thing to both sides, although I don't know how important it is for both rear triangles to have exactly the same flex characteristics.
You could also match tubes, and cut an internal reinforcement insert, and braze it all together with butt joints.
If you inspect the NDS rear dropout, you may find a brand, and may be able to get an exact match if it is Campagnolo, or another big brand.
09-21-18, 06:02 AM
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For our USA members, Dyna-Tech was Raleigh UK's version of Technium. It was similar but not identical, using different lugs.
I see that Ebay UK currently has a Dyna-Tech 525 in a 23" frame for a £199 BIN. If it it fits, I strongly suspect that the OP would be financially ahead by buying it and selling off the Camapgnolo Mirage components, as opposed to repairing the current frame.
I see that Ebay UK currently has a Dyna-Tech 525 in a 23" frame for a £199 BIN. If it it fits, I strongly suspect that the OP would be financially ahead by buying it and selling off the Camapgnolo Mirage components, as opposed to repairing the current frame.
09-21-18, 01:06 PM
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There are a couple of different economics with bicycle repair, and bicycle frame repair.
If you hire out the work, then things get very expensive, very quickly. So, if you have a frame worth $500 to $1000, then it may be worthwhile to get the work done.
On the other hand, if the frame is worth $100 to $300, then getting the repair work done professionally is far more marginal.
And, if the frame is worth say $50, then might as well just have a farmer stick weld it together.
On the other hand, for a home project, or hobby project, it may be a fun project to salvage something that otherwise would be headed to the scrap bin.
And, you could end up with some rather unique results. There will be some expense if you purchase replacement droputs or a donor frame.
Raleigh apparently painted the dynatech, but you could have some very unique results polishing the titanium, and perhaps the aluminum, and painting the steel.
As with many, I groan when I see really bad repairs, but also know that if I was in the middle of a tour, for example, I might sacrifice just about anything to get back on the road.
If you hire out the work, then things get very expensive, very quickly. So, if you have a frame worth $500 to $1000, then it may be worthwhile to get the work done.
On the other hand, if the frame is worth $100 to $300, then getting the repair work done professionally is far more marginal.
And, if the frame is worth say $50, then might as well just have a farmer stick weld it together.
On the other hand, for a home project, or hobby project, it may be a fun project to salvage something that otherwise would be headed to the scrap bin.
And, you could end up with some rather unique results. There will be some expense if you purchase replacement droputs or a donor frame.
Raleigh apparently painted the dynatech, but you could have some very unique results polishing the titanium, and perhaps the aluminum, and painting the steel.
As with many, I groan when I see really bad repairs, but also know that if I was in the middle of a tour, for example, I might sacrifice just about anything to get back on the road.
09-21-18, 01:11 PM
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Looking at your first photo, it is possible the repair was brazed, and not welded. You might disassemble the repair before making a final determination of what to do with the frame.
It may not be as bad as it looks.
It may not be as bad as it looks.
09-21-18, 05:23 PM
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There are a couple of different economics with bicycle repair, and bicycle frame repair.
If you hire out the work, then things get very expensive, very quickly. So, if you have a frame worth $500 to $1000, then it may be worthwhile to get the work done.
On the other hand, if the frame is worth $100 to $300, then getting the repair work done professionally is far more marginal.
And, if the frame is worth say $50, then might as well just have a farmer stick weld it together.
On the other hand, for a home project, or hobby project, it may be a fun project to salvage something that otherwise would be headed to the scrap bin.
And, you could end up with some rather unique results. There will be some expense if you purchase replacement droputs or a donor frame.
Raleigh apparently painted the dynatech, but you could have some very unique results polishing the titanium, and perhaps the aluminum, and painting the steel.
As with many, I groan when I see really bad repairs, but also know that if I was in the middle of a tour, for example, I might sacrifice just about anything to get back on the road.
If you hire out the work, then things get very expensive, very quickly. So, if you have a frame worth $500 to $1000, then it may be worthwhile to get the work done.
On the other hand, if the frame is worth $100 to $300, then getting the repair work done professionally is far more marginal.
And, if the frame is worth say $50, then might as well just have a farmer stick weld it together.
On the other hand, for a home project, or hobby project, it may be a fun project to salvage something that otherwise would be headed to the scrap bin.
And, you could end up with some rather unique results. There will be some expense if you purchase replacement droputs or a donor frame.
Raleigh apparently painted the dynatech, but you could have some very unique results polishing the titanium, and perhaps the aluminum, and painting the steel.
As with many, I groan when I see really bad repairs, but also know that if I was in the middle of a tour, for example, I might sacrifice just about anything to get back on the road.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
09-22-18, 10:13 AM
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Dropouts are brazed into stays. That additional piece of metal is most probably welded. (I tried magnet on all parts - dropout, stay and that added piece is steel and magnet also holds into metal joining that piece to dropout. But. that weld barely touching stays so should be easy enough to cut it out.
question is how easy would be to un-braze dropout to remove it without damaging stays...
I always wanted to learn brazing so I'll try to do it on my own (not worth to hire professional frame builder even if by some miracle I could find one in Ireland...
I have steel bike that is not painted a beach cruiser - little rusty - just enough to be rat and protected by boiled linseed oil.
also racer frame - probably from 70's. previous owner stated it wasn't ever painted. no sign of rust on her... also wiped with linseed oil just in case...
question is how easy would be to un-braze dropout to remove it without damaging stays...
I always wanted to learn brazing so I'll try to do it on my own (not worth to hire professional frame builder even if by some miracle I could find one in Ireland...
I have steel bike that is not painted a beach cruiser - little rusty - just enough to be rat and protected by boiled linseed oil.
also racer frame - probably from 70's. previous owner stated it wasn't ever painted. no sign of rust on her... also wiped with linseed oil just in case...
09-22-18, 10:20 AM
#12
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Seems no one else wants to just come out and say it, so I will.
That frame is now scrap.
Get rid of it. Waste no more time or money on it.
That frame is now scrap.
Get rid of it. Waste no more time or money on it.
09-22-18, 01:33 PM
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I have that bike for free.. no money on it so far.
I'll scavenge dropouts from donor frame (scrap - free)
Only money will go to brazing rod (2.50 euro) and some gas for torch... all together 10 euro? max
Learn brazing - priceless.
on the other hand. thats my hobby so time - irrelevant - you cant waste time doing what you like to do. money - goes from hobby budget again, no waste... I could spend it on beer...
I'll scavenge dropouts from donor frame (scrap - free)
Only money will go to brazing rod (2.50 euro) and some gas for torch... all together 10 euro? max
Learn brazing - priceless.
on the other hand. thats my hobby so time - irrelevant - you cant waste time doing what you like to do. money - goes from hobby budget again, no waste... I could spend it on beer...
Last edited by fdx; 09-22-18 at 01:46 PM.
09-22-18, 02:19 PM
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I haven't been very successful with using those little propane torches for things like brazing. A good oxy-acetylene torch outfit would be an excellent investment for the future, but a bit more than 10 Euros. There are mini oxy/mapp torches, but I'd get real refillable bottles (small portable ones may be OK). At least here in the USA, there are welding places that exchange/refill the cylinders at a reasonable cost.
I suppose you could try silver solder, but it still may be tough with those portable propane torches.
You can buy new dropouts for < $10 or so for the pair, as long as you're not buying vintage campagnolo or similar. You may even be able to get a close match to your NDS dropout.
You might ask around if there is a local public community technical college. It is possible they would help you out with the project.
Oh, congrats on hitting 10 posts... Have fun with the uploads.
I suppose you could try silver solder, but it still may be tough with those portable propane torches.
You can buy new dropouts for < $10 or so for the pair, as long as you're not buying vintage campagnolo or similar. You may even be able to get a close match to your NDS dropout.
You might ask around if there is a local public community technical college. It is possible they would help you out with the project.
Oh, congrats on hitting 10 posts... Have fun with the uploads.
