Restore or refresh, whats your preference?
#26
Old Boy
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I wholeheartedly agree. A proper paint job with decals is quite expensive, and for good reason. Still, the bike would need to be special to its owner or financially feasible if meant for sale. I am glad powder coating exists as it can give a great look along with great durability, at 1/3 the cost of wet paint. Granted these powder coat endeavors are not on bespoke Colnagos or anything, but they have their place. Normally, I will completely disassemble a bike to the frame and fork, clean it, compound the paint, wax the paint, and then apply touch up. All my bikes are 'riders' even if they are really pretty. They were meant to ride!
And while I do enjoy a repaint (which I've done to a few of my bikes over the years) or re-decal'ing after a powder coat job, there is a certain...legitimacy...to having original paint and decals. That was how it was created. I may be putting the same decals on it, but I am not the (original) creator of the bike and of the name (yet I am naming it again!), and often my color and decal of choice aren't original. Therefore the 'authority' of the bike/frameset is somehow lessened in some way in my mind. It's weird, and perhaps hard to understand, but by and large, if I can keep it original then all the better. As for components? Anything. I am almost always going to upgrade/modernize the frameset, so I'm usually in the resto-mod club.
So to answer the OP's question, I prefer to refurbish and upgrade. Restoration takes more time and money, and if I don't need to or want to do it, all the better. Ultimately, the goal is to redeem the bike and get it back on the road, happy, quick, and safe!
And while I do enjoy a repaint (which I've done to a few of my bikes over the years) or re-decal'ing after a powder coat job, there is a certain...legitimacy...to having original paint and decals. That was how it was created. I may be putting the same decals on it, but I am not the (original) creator of the bike and of the name (yet I am naming it again!), and often my color and decal of choice aren't original. Therefore the 'authority' of the bike/frameset is somehow lessened in some way in my mind. It's weird, and perhaps hard to understand, but by and large, if I can keep it original then all the better. As for components? Anything. I am almost always going to upgrade/modernize the frameset, so I'm usually in the resto-mod club.
So to answer the OP's question, I prefer to refurbish and upgrade. Restoration takes more time and money, and if I don't need to or want to do it, all the better. Ultimately, the goal is to redeem the bike and get it back on the road, happy, quick, and safe!
Yeah, what he said!
This is a timely thread for me because I am building a bike right now that I always wanted, but I'm doing it in a very unconventional way.
Many of you have heard of "patina preservation", right? It's like enshrining the history of a significant bike under a protective, transparent coating - in this case rattle-can clear enamel.
Here is what I'm starting with - this photo was taken yesterday morning:
It's a `48 or `49 Raleigh Clubman. The serial number indicates `48, but the small "Raleigh" decal on the seat tube suggests `49. But honestly, who cares?
I am building it up with modern, alloy hardware, including sealed cartridge bearings and a modern 700c wheelset with Sturmey-Archer SRF-3 drivetrain - All in black.
Why? Black hardware will give visual priority to the abstract artwork of the bike's preserved patina. No shiny distractions.
Details like this will draw the eye to the wonderful hand-built craftsmanship, well-aged like a fine wine.
Or something...
What the heck, it was time to try something different. This is going to be fun!
.
__________________
Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
USMC 1981-1991 Semper Fi!
Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
USMC 1981-1991 Semper Fi!
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#27
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Personally I like keeping the original paint, but that may be more of a financial decision for me.
I have no issues swapping in non original components, so long as they are somewhat period correct and don’t change the entire look of the bike.
None of my bikes would justify a complete restoration, and I’m fine with that. Part of he asthetic appeal of vintage bikes to me is that they have some character.
Having said that, I definitely clean and polish everything I can. Even scratched up original paint can look good with some light polishing and wax.
I have no issues swapping in non original components, so long as they are somewhat period correct and don’t change the entire look of the bike.
None of my bikes would justify a complete restoration, and I’m fine with that. Part of he asthetic appeal of vintage bikes to me is that they have some character.
Having said that, I definitely clean and polish everything I can. Even scratched up original paint can look good with some light polishing and wax.
#28
Old Boy
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Location: Minnesota
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Personally I like keeping the original paint, but that may be more of a financial decision for me.
I have no issues swapping in non original components, so long as they are somewhat period correct and don’t change the entire look of the bike.
None of my bikes would justify a complete restoration, and I’m fine with that. Part of he asthetic appeal of vintage bikes to me is that they have some character.
Having said that, I definitely clean and polish everything I can. Even scratched up original paint can look good with some light polishing and wax.
I have no issues swapping in non original components, so long as they are somewhat period correct and don’t change the entire look of the bike.
None of my bikes would justify a complete restoration, and I’m fine with that. Part of he asthetic appeal of vintage bikes to me is that they have some character.
Having said that, I definitely clean and polish everything I can. Even scratched up original paint can look good with some light polishing and wax.
It gets back to the "Resto-Mod" method - if you can improve the performance of an old bike economically by installing reasonably priced modern hardware, why not do that?
Case in point: my 1981 Peugeot PFN-10.
A Deore 1 x 9-speed drivetrain (total cost $84, new) did wonders for the all-round rideability of this bike. And since I modified it for commuting, the original sleek racing design was always going to be compromised anyway.
Right now, this is my best-riding bike. Too bad I have to put it away until Spring...
.
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Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
USMC 1981-1991 Semper Fi!
Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
USMC 1981-1991 Semper Fi!
#29
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Refreshing is my preference... I am cheap and lazy, I just want to ride.
Aaron
Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#30
Senior Member
This is a timely thread. My project bike happens to be a bike I bought for myself in the late 80s. While the bike to me is nostalgic, I am not really looking to restore it to its original condition. The only reason I would restore to original was if it was going to be a "collectible" and hang on the wall somewhere never to be ridden.
When I bought the bike 30s years ago, back then I always dreamed of upgrading all the components to faster wheels with campy or dura ace parts. Always on the prowl to find things I could afford like bar tape to make it look better.
Now I will have the chamce to do that. I will do my best to keep the original paint on the frame, and if unhappy with the touch up would spend the time and money to repaint keeping it as close to original as I can. I will almost certainly be upgrading components to brifters and a 10spd drivetrain with new wheels.
Id love to ride this bike like it was meant to be ridden.
That being said, I still think it needs to have a "classy" look. Chrome components and sexy chainrings on a classic looking crankset. I think there is certainly a balance somewhere between art, form and function. Usually at the cost of dollars never to be recovered.
-Sean
When I bought the bike 30s years ago, back then I always dreamed of upgrading all the components to faster wheels with campy or dura ace parts. Always on the prowl to find things I could afford like bar tape to make it look better.
Now I will have the chamce to do that. I will do my best to keep the original paint on the frame, and if unhappy with the touch up would spend the time and money to repaint keeping it as close to original as I can. I will almost certainly be upgrading components to brifters and a 10spd drivetrain with new wheels.
Id love to ride this bike like it was meant to be ridden.
That being said, I still think it needs to have a "classy" look. Chrome components and sexy chainrings on a classic looking crankset. I think there is certainly a balance somewhere between art, form and function. Usually at the cost of dollars never to be recovered.
-Sean
#31
Senior Member
I no longer buy bikes that don't have nice paint. Just too much of a PIA, turns into a money pit.
#32
Mr. Anachronism
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Yeah, what he said!
This is a timely thread for me because I am building a bike right now that I always wanted, but I'm doing it in a very unconventional way.
Many of you have heard of "patina preservation", right? It's like enshrining the history of a significant bike under a protective, transparent coating - in this case rattle-can clear enamel.
Here is what I'm starting with - this photo was taken yesterday morning:
It's a `48 or `49 Raleigh Clubman. The serial number indicates `48, but the small "Raleigh" decal on the seat tube suggests `49. But honestly, who cares?
I am building it up with modern, alloy hardware, including sealed cartridge bearings and a modern 700c wheelset with Sturmey-Archer SRF-3 drivetrain - All in black.
Why? Black hardware will give visual priority to the abstract artwork of the bike's preserved patina. No shiny distractions.
Details like this will draw the eye to the wonderful hand-built craftsmanship, well-aged like a fine wine.
Or something...
What the heck, it was time to try something different. This is going to be fun!
.
This is a timely thread for me because I am building a bike right now that I always wanted, but I'm doing it in a very unconventional way.
Many of you have heard of "patina preservation", right? It's like enshrining the history of a significant bike under a protective, transparent coating - in this case rattle-can clear enamel.
Here is what I'm starting with - this photo was taken yesterday morning:
It's a `48 or `49 Raleigh Clubman. The serial number indicates `48, but the small "Raleigh" decal on the seat tube suggests `49. But honestly, who cares?
I am building it up with modern, alloy hardware, including sealed cartridge bearings and a modern 700c wheelset with Sturmey-Archer SRF-3 drivetrain - All in black.
Why? Black hardware will give visual priority to the abstract artwork of the bike's preserved patina. No shiny distractions.
Details like this will draw the eye to the wonderful hand-built craftsmanship, well-aged like a fine wine.
Or something...
What the heck, it was time to try something different. This is going to be fun!
.
I agree it's the perfect candidate for your take on a "Patina Restoration", as Luxlow likes to call it.
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#33
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Matching paint
If you have an old bike with chips in the paint would it make it more valuable to attempt to match the paint and fix the marks?
#34
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Probably not.
More presentable?
Probably yes, depending on how well the touch-ups match.
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#35
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Latest project, nos frame, did not like the original gold color. Paint and Graphics credit to Yellow Jersey, Arlington WI
To me the bike is the frame, if I like the color, and paint and graphics are in good shape, probably just a refresh. Not liking the color, or lots of blemishes, or damage, complete restoration. Components don’t count, we all have our favorites, and that’s what I use. Not really into cycling history, so If I somehow obtained a historically significant ride, I would sell it to someone who cared. Chances are though, I wouldn’t know, and do what would make me want to ride it. I’ll never own a bike I don’t ride. Tim
Last edited by tkamd73; 11-13-18 at 12:39 AM.
#36
Senior Member
Just looked up Yellow Jersey. They look like a great outfit to get some work done.
Yellow Jersey Website
Anyone know of a place similar in either the Portland or Seattle areas?
-Sean
Yellow Jersey Website
Anyone know of a place similar in either the Portland or Seattle areas?
-Sean
#37
Banned
I'm in agreement with almost every reply, also likely have committed sins in the eyes of others.
On topic, the depicted Witcomb was acquired as original but greatly neglected. I decided to resurrect it, not glorify but get it to excellent mechanical and cleaned condition.
Interestingly enough, I met Peter Weigle and where the conversation lead to his memories and apprenticeship at the old London shop during the time of the bikes build. He teased me of yet saving the original decals and spec sheet brochure on this model. Of course, now the idea of refinishing and having him do it is tempting. But then again, I kind of like the character scars and survivor story, 'it is what it is' bringing happy miles to this day.
On topic, the depicted Witcomb was acquired as original but greatly neglected. I decided to resurrect it, not glorify but get it to excellent mechanical and cleaned condition.
Interestingly enough, I met Peter Weigle and where the conversation lead to his memories and apprenticeship at the old London shop during the time of the bikes build. He teased me of yet saving the original decals and spec sheet brochure on this model. Of course, now the idea of refinishing and having him do it is tempting. But then again, I kind of like the character scars and survivor story, 'it is what it is' bringing happy miles to this day.
#38
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No you don't!
It depends on the bike. Anything truly collectible is more desirable in original condition, so refreshed it is. Cars suffer more wear and tear by nature and they're too big to hang on the wall so they need to be in sound working order to truly be desirable. They get restored.
Man, just yesterday I saw a pristine 70 Challenger convertible at Costco with the top down. This is November in Nova Scotia. Looked like all original olive green paint to boot.
Shades of 'Vanishing Point'.
It depends on the bike. Anything truly collectible is more desirable in original condition, so refreshed it is. Cars suffer more wear and tear by nature and they're too big to hang on the wall so they need to be in sound working order to truly be desirable. They get restored.
Man, just yesterday I saw a pristine 70 Challenger convertible at Costco with the top down. This is November in Nova Scotia. Looked like all original olive green paint to boot.
Shades of 'Vanishing Point'.
Seriously though, I often find myself spending way more on a "resto-mod" than if I were just going to refresh a bike. Its a serious affliction, one which my wallet suffers greatly.
#39
Senior Member
Amazing isn't it... We also have indoor plumbing and not all our Fathers are Fishermen or Lumberjacks...We are peaceful and friendly. That may be hard for you to understand.
#40
HarborBandS
People on this forum are probably the largest concentration of vintage bike lovers in the world today. But there is a vast, unloved supply of mass-market vintage steel bikes out there rotting away in peoples' garages, sheds, and basements. I think it's great that people are snatching these up and converting them to a modern use. Resto-mod's are popular on this forum, and I just completed one myself on a 1987 Schwinn Super Sport. It's truly the "best of both worlds", offering the look and ride of a vintage steel frame, but modern wheels and components. But while this was a nice bike in 1987, it was hardly rare or really that interesting. And I started with a bare frame (which was probably parted out by the previous owner to supply someone's "period correct" build out there with some nice Shimano 600 parts).
I have another Tenax Schwinn (1986 Prelude) that is a complete bike. Again, this is not the most sought after vintage bike out there, but it is in good shape with original parts, so I am hesitant to alter it at this point--even though I dislike the down tube friction shifting. So I am keeping it complete for the time being. Perhaps it will become a nice retro-mod sport touring bike at some point, or maybe I will sell it.
The next vast reservoir of unloved steel bike frames is the MTB and Hybrid market of the 1990's. I built of hundreds of these during my tenure in a bike shop, and now you can pick them up for very little money. Some of them may make nice touring, gravel, or adventure bikes. For the time being, they are largely overlooked by retro-grouch purists because this era of cycling is often considered a downward movement.
However, if a bike is truly rare, collectible or unique, then I personally would be uncomfortable altering it for any reason, other than safety and mechanical integrity.
I have another Tenax Schwinn (1986 Prelude) that is a complete bike. Again, this is not the most sought after vintage bike out there, but it is in good shape with original parts, so I am hesitant to alter it at this point--even though I dislike the down tube friction shifting. So I am keeping it complete for the time being. Perhaps it will become a nice retro-mod sport touring bike at some point, or maybe I will sell it.
The next vast reservoir of unloved steel bike frames is the MTB and Hybrid market of the 1990's. I built of hundreds of these during my tenure in a bike shop, and now you can pick them up for very little money. Some of them may make nice touring, gravel, or adventure bikes. For the time being, they are largely overlooked by retro-grouch purists because this era of cycling is often considered a downward movement.
However, if a bike is truly rare, collectible or unique, then I personally would be uncomfortable altering it for any reason, other than safety and mechanical integrity.
#41
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Here's a link to a resto-mod project I have on the backburner at the moment. I hope to get back to it soon.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...urrection.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...urrection.html
#42
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I've got a bunch of cosmetically challenged frames. I'm leaning towards a rust treatment, nail polish and clear coat regime. That way the bike can be a bike again and I can deside weather i.love it enough to splurge on a paint
#43
Member
I was on both sides of the fence. I bought some great shape originals and some not so great shape that I had refinished. My collection started getting too big and I decided that I would just stick to original paint and sell the one's refinished. Some bikes do need to be refinished. A lot of paint and rust it's better to strip the frame and restore is rather than let it rust away. The redone frames look amazing and beautiful but in the back of my head I know that it's not "real": It's not the original bike as it was made. So I sold off most of my refinished frames except for a couple that I ride a lot. On the originals I'll touch up paint chips and if the columbus decal is totally gone I'll put a new one on. But, I'm done with the project frames.
#44
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Rust Resistance
I can't stand rust. It's like cancer it grows and grows until it destroys the host. Folks speak about surface rust as enhancing the pantia of a frame. To me that's like insisting a lit cigarette makes a beautiful mouth more alluring.
You got to be ****ting me.
My next project is a 1906 Sunbeam that was ridden by a little old lady in Norwich for nearly a hundred years.
It obviously has no chrome so it's back to the metal and repaint. It has a two speed bottom bracket that I'm seriously thinking of highlighting with a glass cover plate to accentuate the planetary and sun gears of the cycoptic gearbox.
IMHO that is the best way to ensure the rust is dead and someone is riding it as a means of sustainable transport in 2118.
You got to be ****ting me.
My next project is a 1906 Sunbeam that was ridden by a little old lady in Norwich for nearly a hundred years.
It obviously has no chrome so it's back to the metal and repaint. It has a two speed bottom bracket that I'm seriously thinking of highlighting with a glass cover plate to accentuate the planetary and sun gears of the cycoptic gearbox.
IMHO that is the best way to ensure the rust is dead and someone is riding it as a means of sustainable transport in 2118.
Last edited by Johno59; 11-13-18 at 01:07 PM.
#45
Senior Member
I don't recall any mention of surface rust enhancing patina. Bare metal clear-coated over, yes, but not rust.
#46
Old Boy
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Yeah, that's where we bicycle folks differ from the car guys. They actually have processes that will take a normally aged panel and cover it in surface rust to enhance their "Rat Rod" street cred. They rust it, neutralize it, and then clear-coat over it. That's just weird...
.
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Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
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Roulez pour la joie, jamais pour la douleur.
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#47
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A full restoration as described in the OP? I can only think of one set of circumstances where that would be appropriate (for me): If I still owned my UO-8, or my Western Flyer, I would love to have them repainted by a master painter and make them look brand new as I remember them on the first day I rode them. If something happened to my Richard Sachs, I would send it to Joe Bell and get it restored. I think that the money it takes to restore a second hand bicycle is better spent in the hunt for a bike that looks nice as is. But if you end up with a used bicycle, there is a wide variety of artistry that lies between a restoration and spraying WD-40 in just the right places -- and it is all good.
#48
Full Member
I am very new to the vintage bike scene. I just finished fixing up a very nice Le Croco,Canadian bike. I was all set to paint it but had second thoughts after reading Randy Jawas MY TEN SPEEDS.I touched it up and put on new decals and i am glad i did not paint. Having said that my second bike is a blue Falcon from the early seventies which i stripped and just started painting yellow. I always wanted a yellow bike with red accents. To each his own i say,no rules.Will post pics of Le CRoco when new tires show up.
#49
Senior Member
I am very new to the vintage bike scene. I just finished fixing up a very nice Le Croco,Canadian bike. I was all set to paint it but had second thoughts after reading Randy Jawas MY TEN SPEEDS.I touched it up and put on new decals and i am glad i did not paint. Having said that my second bike is a blue Falcon from the early seventies which i stripped and just started painting yellow. I always wanted a yellow bike with red accents. To each his own i say,no rules.Will post pics of Le CRoco when new tires show up.
#50
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I've often been surprised at how many bikes I've seen that appear to have been hung-up in the garage or attic.... with having barely been ridden. There are plenty if great bikes out there for those who desire "original only".
For those who wish to repaint and rebuild to their own or original specs... IMHO, have at it and enjoy yourself.
I've always stayed as original as possible. But I've recently seen some pictures... of rebuilds, of bikes, like one I own. 1" carbon forks were often used, with modern stem parts, brifters, new light-weight (black) wheels, and compact handlebars. I liked the look! And seriously considered upgrading/up-dating my own vintage Cannondale. Or.... maybe hunting down a nice lugged steal bike to transform. I haven't yet. But I am still thinking about it.
There are enough beautiful old bikes out there to fill countless museum's. And maybe some day they will. But for now... I don't think we need worry about losing the "vintage bike resource".
For those who wish to repaint and rebuild to their own or original specs... IMHO, have at it and enjoy yourself.
I've always stayed as original as possible. But I've recently seen some pictures... of rebuilds, of bikes, like one I own. 1" carbon forks were often used, with modern stem parts, brifters, new light-weight (black) wheels, and compact handlebars. I liked the look! And seriously considered upgrading/up-dating my own vintage Cannondale. Or.... maybe hunting down a nice lugged steal bike to transform. I haven't yet. But I am still thinking about it.
There are enough beautiful old bikes out there to fill countless museum's. And maybe some day they will. But for now... I don't think we need worry about losing the "vintage bike resource".