This thing is a rocket.
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 10,367
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
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I don't know about faster, but i have felt bikes that just feel super alive and responsive, and just feeling like they are saying..."dude get in shape, lose weight and push me hard, let's have some fun" notably my 84 Team Miyata (this is double butted, with mostly dura ace, mavic 330 and tubies) Enough so that I got an 85 (possible 86...serial numbers to t mar soon) to see if I can duplicate or get close to this with modern gear. hoping lightening strikes twice
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Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can.
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can.
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,753
Bikes: 1986 KHS Fiero, 1989 Trek 950, 1990 Trek 7000, 1991 Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo, 1992 Trek 1400, 1997 Cannondale CAD2 R300, 1998 Cannondale CAD2 R200, 2002 Marin San Rafael, 2006 Cannondale CAAD8 R1000, 2010 Performance Access XCL9R
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After some cleanup and tuning, it just BEGGED me to go... I couldn't afford these in 92, and I couldn't catch guys that rode them. But it is a size smaller than I like, and I gave it to my son in law. So I can still visit it...
I saw an ad for a never ridden 2006 CAAD8 R1000 frame. Bike was bought new and the Ultegra stuff stripped for a carbon bike build. The bare frame passed through a few hands, till I snagged it for an obscene low price. I am cheap... I spent more for the wheels, used... At a tick over 18 pounds, this is the lightest hike I have ridden, much less owned. As a Clydesdale, I never seriously worried about weight... But this is 7 pounds lighter than my old steel KHS, and I can hit 25 mph a lot quicker on the R1000 than the KHS. A lot... THIS rocket is my personal reward to myself, for losing 130 pounds, so far...
I also have a 98 Cannondale R200, but I can't really feel it is any quicker than my old KHS...
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#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
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Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
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I've been impressed with how responsive my 1985 Cannondale ST 400 is. It is a long wheelbase bike (42 inches with 18 inch stays). My 1982 Trek 720 with the same geometry but built of Reynolds 531 tubing feels noodly compared to the 'dale. I'd take the Trek over the Cannondale for fully loaded touring trip; I used the Trek on a cross country. It was comfy and handled the weight well thanks to that long wheel base and stays. But for multi day events (like the ride I just did, Bike Ride Around Minnesota 2019), I like the ST 400 better. The 1985 catalog says that the bike has touring bike geometry and the stiffness of a race bike which is pretty much true.
#54
Senior Member
I definitely believe in faster and slower bikes. They are mostly faster when I am not on them and someone else is and mostly slower when I am supplying the motive force.
No really, whatever, some bikes just feel fast and the mental cues given I think improve the engines performance resulting in an actually faster bike. My sub-18 pound aluminum GT triple triangle is most decidedly faster than my Raleigh 3-speed "English" Racer and I do not care what you say. My Guerc SLX is most decidedly faster than my Bridegestone MB4 MTB. So there.
No really, whatever, some bikes just feel fast and the mental cues given I think improve the engines performance resulting in an actually faster bike. My sub-18 pound aluminum GT triple triangle is most decidedly faster than my Raleigh 3-speed "English" Racer and I do not care what you say. My Guerc SLX is most decidedly faster than my Bridegestone MB4 MTB. So there.
#56
Senior Member
When I climb into the cockpit of my Mercier I'm strapping myself in for an exceptionally fast ride. Tires are melting, twine is shreading, leather is tearing. I'm dialed up, dialed in and dialing for dollars. The glue on my sew-ups starts to sizzle. My bell chimes 29 times for each man on the Edmond Fitzgerald. The red, white and blue bands on my Mercier look like a waving French flag as I take the checkered flag darting past a big yellow taxi. I slow down to take in the hissing of summer lawns, and a bug filled smile forms on my face. Strength + Endurance = SPEED!
#57
Junior Member
#58
Senior Member
I have some data on this topic, having used a power meter for a few years, and tracking things carefully up until about 3 years ago. At the same power, speed difference #1 is aero. Not just an aero bike/position vs upright, but also clothing, helmet, jacket, they all add up to slow you down. Difference #2 is wheel/tire/pressure. Aero is part of that equation, but just as big is quality of tire (casing) and pressure. Most people ride with too much pressure for the road conditions. Next time you notice the speed difference as you transition from a chip seal road to a smooth one you get an enhanced example of what difference tire quality and pressure can make. That speed difference I can prove by going from cheap tubulars to high quality tubeless clincher at low pressure. Difference #3 is body position and comfort. A coach at an indoor class I took a few years ago pointed out that when racers switched from a road bike to a tt/tri bike (indoors) he would typically see a 5-10% average power drop off because they had not adapted to the tt bike well. He looked at my data and noted that I did not happen to have that dropoff. But he also mentioned that switching bikes could amount to the same difference. I have no idea how much stiffness matters because any bike I had a power meter on was modern.
#59
Hump, what hump?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SC midlands
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Well, I wouldn't call her a rocket, but Ugly Betty proved pretty responsive tonight during my weekly speed drills. It was reminiscent of my first Basso Gap: easy to accelerate to 19-20 mph on the flats and stay there for 1-2 minutes. The handling will take some getting used to, as the steering is quite "twitchy," but I was feeling more at ease by the end of the ride. The AL fork telegraphed every road imperfection to the handlebars!
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2010 AB T1X ** 2010 Cannondale SIX-5 ** 1993 Cannondale RS900 ** 1988 Bottecchia Team Record ** 1989 Bianchi Brava ** 1988 Nishiki Olympic ** 1987 Centurion Ironman Expert(2) ** 1985 DeRosa Professional SLX ** 1982 Colnago Super ** 1982 Basso Gap ** 198? Ciocc Competition SL ** 19?? Roberts Audax ** 198? Brian Rourke ** 1982 Mercian Olympic ** 1970 Raleigh Professional MK I ** 1952 Raleigh Sports
2010 AB T1X ** 2010 Cannondale SIX-5 ** 1993 Cannondale RS900 ** 1988 Bottecchia Team Record ** 1989 Bianchi Brava ** 1988 Nishiki Olympic ** 1987 Centurion Ironman Expert(2) ** 1985 DeRosa Professional SLX ** 1982 Colnago Super ** 1982 Basso Gap ** 198? Ciocc Competition SL ** 19?? Roberts Audax ** 198? Brian Rourke ** 1982 Mercian Olympic ** 1970 Raleigh Professional MK I ** 1952 Raleigh Sports
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#60
low end rider
That taper on that down tube.. that thing gets yuge.
#61
Hump, what hump?
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Yup. The top tube has the opposite taper. Weird, huh? I think the older straight downtubes, even though quite large, look better. I bought this bike to be a parts donor, but may leave it as-is. I need a rain bike.
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2010 AB T1X ** 2010 Cannondale SIX-5 ** 1993 Cannondale RS900 ** 1988 Bottecchia Team Record ** 1989 Bianchi Brava ** 1988 Nishiki Olympic ** 1987 Centurion Ironman Expert(2) ** 1985 DeRosa Professional SLX ** 1982 Colnago Super ** 1982 Basso Gap ** 198? Ciocc Competition SL ** 19?? Roberts Audax ** 198? Brian Rourke ** 1982 Mercian Olympic ** 1970 Raleigh Professional MK I ** 1952 Raleigh Sports
2010 AB T1X ** 2010 Cannondale SIX-5 ** 1993 Cannondale RS900 ** 1988 Bottecchia Team Record ** 1989 Bianchi Brava ** 1988 Nishiki Olympic ** 1987 Centurion Ironman Expert(2) ** 1985 DeRosa Professional SLX ** 1982 Colnago Super ** 1982 Basso Gap ** 198? Ciocc Competition SL ** 19?? Roberts Audax ** 198? Brian Rourke ** 1982 Mercian Olympic ** 1970 Raleigh Professional MK I ** 1952 Raleigh Sports
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#62
Junior Member
#63
#64
low end rider
They must have done the tapers for a good reason. Couldn't have been easy to produce those tubes.
As far as the "fast" thing, my guess is a perfect storm of 12 other variables are matching up better with the given cdale frame stiffness here than other bikes with less or more stiffness. And it does match for the way some folks ride and what setup they like to run. And for some folks not so much. Anyway enough of an effect for a second or two on a ride from what we're reading here.
As far as the "fast" thing, my guess is a perfect storm of 12 other variables are matching up better with the given cdale frame stiffness here than other bikes with less or more stiffness. And it does match for the way some folks ride and what setup they like to run. And for some folks not so much. Anyway enough of an effect for a second or two on a ride from what we're reading here.
#65
Junior Member
They must have done the tapers for a good reason. Couldn't have been easy to produce those tubes.
As far as the "fast" thing, my guess is a perfect storm of 12 other variables are matching up better with the given cdale frame stiffness here than other bikes with less or more stiffness. And it does match for the way some folks ride and what setup they like to run. And for some folks not so much. Anyway enough of an effect for a second or two on a ride from what we're reading here.
As far as the "fast" thing, my guess is a perfect storm of 12 other variables are matching up better with the given cdale frame stiffness here than other bikes with less or more stiffness. And it does match for the way some folks ride and what setup they like to run. And for some folks not so much. Anyway enough of an effect for a second or two on a ride from what we're reading here.
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#66
Hump, what hump?
Join Date: Dec 2003
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As far as the "fast" thing, my guess is a perfect storm of 12 other variables are matching up better with the given cdale frame stiffness here than other bikes with less or more stiffness. And it does match for the way some folks ride and what setup they like to run. And for some folks not so much. Anyway enough of an effect for a second or two on a ride from what we're reading here.
__________________
2010 AB T1X ** 2010 Cannondale SIX-5 ** 1993 Cannondale RS900 ** 1988 Bottecchia Team Record ** 1989 Bianchi Brava ** 1988 Nishiki Olympic ** 1987 Centurion Ironman Expert(2) ** 1985 DeRosa Professional SLX ** 1982 Colnago Super ** 1982 Basso Gap ** 198? Ciocc Competition SL ** 19?? Roberts Audax ** 198? Brian Rourke ** 1982 Mercian Olympic ** 1970 Raleigh Professional MK I ** 1952 Raleigh Sports
2010 AB T1X ** 2010 Cannondale SIX-5 ** 1993 Cannondale RS900 ** 1988 Bottecchia Team Record ** 1989 Bianchi Brava ** 1988 Nishiki Olympic ** 1987 Centurion Ironman Expert(2) ** 1985 DeRosa Professional SLX ** 1982 Colnago Super ** 1982 Basso Gap ** 198? Ciocc Competition SL ** 19?? Roberts Audax ** 198? Brian Rourke ** 1982 Mercian Olympic ** 1970 Raleigh Professional MK I ** 1952 Raleigh Sports
#67
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 41,027
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
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I definitely have fast bikes and slow bikes, but I don't understand why, either. My Lemond is my fastest. So here's a theory. When it has the 700c wheels, they are light, and the tires are narrow and light. I pull away from a stop, and the lightweight wheels make the bike seem light. Then when I get up to cruising speed, I happen to be in an aero position because the bars are lower than on my other bikes. At that point, it's the aero advantage that makes it fast. I get seriously better times on it than on my other bikes. But another factor is probably weighing in. Because it's fast, it's comfortable to ride at a higher level of effort. So it's not that it gives me more speed for a given effort. Rather, it encourages me to put in more effort. And the increased effort makes me go faster.
Does this make sense? It's all conjecture.
Does this make sense? It's all conjecture.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
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#68
Junior Member
I definitely have fast bikes and slow bikes, but I don't understand why, either. My Lemond is my fastest. So here's a theory. When it has the 700c wheels, they are light, and the tires are narrow and light. I pull away from a stop, and the lightweight wheels make the bike seem light. Then when I get up to cruising speed, I happen to be in an aero position because the bars are lower than on my other bikes. At that point, it's the aero advantage that makes it fast. I get seriously better times on it than on my other bikes. But another factor is probably weighing in. Because it's fast, it's comfortable to ride at a higher level of effort. So it's not that it gives me more speed for a given effort. Rather, it encourages me to put in more effort. And the increased effort makes me go faster.
Does this make sense? It's all conjecture.
Does this make sense? It's all conjecture.
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#69
Semper Fi
On my CAAD 10, you can actually press the down and top tubes with your thumb and see it flex in the larger diameter sections, away from the butting at the ends. Alloys and manucturing techniques have come a really long ways since the first Klein and Cannondale big tubed, stiff feeling types. But, I agree about how the large tubed bikes were appealing to look at, I drooled over a test of a prototype Klein in 1978 Bicycling magazine for several months.
Bill
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Semper Fi, USMC, 1975-1977
I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
Semper Fi, USMC, 1975-1977
I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
#70
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 41,027
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
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Oh here's another theory. On my go-fast bike, I tend to wear tight-fitting cycling clothes. Not only do they cause less air drag, but because of the fit, they feel more comfortable while pedaling hard. I wouldn't call street clothes uncomfortable, but I suspect the little tugging on my body here and there is a very slight discouragement from pedaling my best.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
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#72
Senior Member
"Some is wasted flexing the frame"
coughcoughbull****coughcough
coughcoughbull****coughcough
#73
Senior Member
Oh here's another theory. On my go-fast bike, I tend to wear tight-fitting cycling clothes. Not only do they cause less air drag, but because of the fit, they feel more comfortable while pedaling hard. I wouldn't call street clothes uncomfortable, but I suspect the little tugging on my body here and there is a very slight discouragement from pedaling my best.
For many, a bike can trigger that drive. For me, it depends on who I'm riding with. One day I can be plooting along with some folks and the next I'm with a bunch of hammerheads doing a pr with the same bike.
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#75
Barred @ Velocipedesalon
Certainly my best times/speed come on any bike that I've got set up for my body to be in a good aerodynamic racing posture, and staying in the drops as much as my back and wrists can handle; it doesn't seem to matter much on the weight (20-22 pounders) since I tend to turn at the same crank rpm's on any race bike I have given the same gear ratio(s). I don't usually ride with a cycling shirt so I'm sure that the clothing fit would help or hinder depending on what I wear. When doing my interval or TT type rides I'll always wear the body hugging attire.
Hard to go slow!