Should I buy the Wahoo Roam or the Garmin Edge 830?
#26
Senior Member
It actually still worked, but the elevation numbers got all wonky. Wahoo gave me a code for a 40% crash replacement discount.
So there are replacement scenarios that don't involve a faulty unit. I too, am curious about why he needed to replace it 3x, but he said don't ask so I guess we'll never know
#27
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The second one survived 10 minutes in the washing machine a few times, but couldn't survive my wifes extra soak, double spin, super duper wash cycle she likes to use on bike clothes.
I searched and read DC Rainmaker until my eyes turned blue, and I still went back to the Wahoo Elmnt Bolt about a month ago.
Originally Posted by ksryder
Can't speak for Reynolds but I replaced a Bolt after sending it through the wash when I forget it was in my jersey pocket.
It actually still worked, but the elevation numbers got all wonky. Wahoo gave me a code for a 40% crash replacement discount.
It actually still worked, but the elevation numbers got all wonky. Wahoo gave me a code for a 40% crash replacement discount.
Last edited by Reynolds 531; 09-10-19 at 11:36 AM.
#28
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I once accidentally threw away a check for $1000 so I've really no right to laugh, but still...
Man, must have sucked at the moment you realized.
-Tim-
#29
Senior Member
It was in my pocket because I had driven to another town for a ride on a tandem with a blind friend.
Then we crashed, which was pretty much my fault, as the person who could see, but in fairness it was a gravel road and sometimes those ruts are pretty well camouflaged to look like the rest of the road and you don't see them until you're right on top of them, and you can't just bunny hop a tandem like you can a solo bike.
But still, it was my fault and I felt really bad because in addition to some pretty nasty road rash, my stoker separated his shoulder.
By the time we got hauled off the course, back in our vehicle, and made the hour-long drive to get back home, I'd forgotten about putting the computer in my pocket.
It's OK to laugh about now because everyone is in one piece and recovered so if the loss of a bike computer is the worst thing out of the deal then I'm OK with it.
I just emailed Wahoo and said "hey I'm a dumbass and here's what I did" and they said no problem and gave me a crash replacement discount code.
In conclusion, Wahoo's customer support continues to be top notch.
#32
Senior Member
For what it's worth I use non-Garmin chest straps without issue.
#33
Senior Member
On the other hand I use Garmin ANT+ sensors with my Wahoo without issue.
What are we talking about again? I got lost.
What are we talking about again? I got lost.
#34
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Bluetooth Low Energy and ant+ are data transmission protocols...Meaning that they are not proprietary. I'm no expert, but I think this means that, if you list a device as BTLE or as ant+ (and most HRMs and such are one, the other, or both), then it has to work with other devices which use the same protocol.
In other words, brands don't matter.
In other words, brands don't matter.
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#35
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Bluetooth Low Energy and ant+ are data transmission protocols...Meaning that they are not proprietary. I'm no expert, but I think this means that, if you list a device as BTLE or as ant+ (and most HRMs and such are one, the other, or both), then it has to work with other devices which use the same protocol.
In other words, brands don't matter.
In other words, brands don't matter.
Proprietary has to do with property. ANT+ is entirely owned by Dynastream Innovations which is owned by Garmin. The protocol is their property to do with as they please. This is the definition of proprietary.
ANT+ is licensed. Some licenses such as evaluation use, are free. The owners of ANT+ however, charge fees to developers to implement ANT+ in software for revenue generating purposes, charge licensing fees to chip makers who put ANT+ on their chips and charge fees to certify devices and software. I'm also not an expert and only know the basics of how this works.
BTLE is open source but the fact that one or the other is open source vs proprietary doesn't make one better than the other apart from cost.
Interoperablity of either is not guaranteed. I could pay the licensing fee for ANT+ or download a software development kit for BTLE, write cruddy code, stick it on a device and sell it to cyclists all over the world. That's the nature of all software today and why I asked about Garmin GPS and Wahoo sensor interoperablity. I'd like to think that the two biggest players would interoperate well but it isn't a given and knowing that at least one other person does it sets my mind at ease.
-Tim-
#36
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Kind of an academic discussion but ANT+ is actually proprietary.
Proprietary has to do with property. ANT+ is entirely owned by Dynastream Innovations which is owned by Garmin. The protocol is their property to do with as they please. This is the definition of proprietary.
ANT+ is licensed. Some licenses such as evaluation use, are free. The owners of ANT+ however, charge fees to developers to implement ANT+ in software for revenue generating purposes, charge licensing fees to chip makers who put ANT+ on their chips and charge fees to certify devices and software. I'm also not an expert and only know the basics of how this works.
BTLE is open source but the fact that one or the other is open source vs proprietary doesn't make one better than the other apart from cost.
Interoperablity of either is not guaranteed. I could pay the licensing fee for ANT+ or download a software development kit for BTLE, write cruddy code, stick it on a device and sell it to cyclists all over the world. That's the nature of all software today and why I asked about Garmin GPS and Wahoo sensor interoperablity. I'd like to think that the two biggest players would interoperate well but it isn't a given and knowing that at least one other person does it sets my mind at ease.
-Tim-
Proprietary has to do with property. ANT+ is entirely owned by Dynastream Innovations which is owned by Garmin. The protocol is their property to do with as they please. This is the definition of proprietary.
ANT+ is licensed. Some licenses such as evaluation use, are free. The owners of ANT+ however, charge fees to developers to implement ANT+ in software for revenue generating purposes, charge licensing fees to chip makers who put ANT+ on their chips and charge fees to certify devices and software. I'm also not an expert and only know the basics of how this works.
BTLE is open source but the fact that one or the other is open source vs proprietary doesn't make one better than the other apart from cost.
Interoperablity of either is not guaranteed. I could pay the licensing fee for ANT+ or download a software development kit for BTLE, write cruddy code, stick it on a device and sell it to cyclists all over the world. That's the nature of all software today and why I asked about Garmin GPS and Wahoo sensor interoperablity. I'd like to think that the two biggest players would interoperate well but it isn't a given and knowing that at least one other person does it sets my mind at ease.
-Tim-
I had assumed it was a standard like Dolby Noise Reduction, which was proprietary but widely licensed. (And if you are too young to have used cassette decks, you may have never heard of Dolby!)
#37
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Tim, thanks for that info. If I am understanding it correctly, it is indeed (as you wrote) "an academic discussion" in that there is the theory (BTLE and Ant+ compatibility should be generic) and the practice (there may be incompatibilities in practice).
I had assumed it was a standard like Dolby Noise Reduction, which was proprietary but widely licensed. (And if you are too young to have used cassette decks, you may have never heard of Dolby!)
I had assumed it was a standard like Dolby Noise Reduction, which was proprietary but widely licensed. (And if you are too young to have used cassette decks, you may have never heard of Dolby!)
Both BTLE and ANT+ have standards but like everything else, people are free to misunderstand the standards, not follow them or cut corners. This is the value of certification. It ensures that your product actually meets the standards.
ANT+ Product Certification
Regarding interoperability:
The ANT+ Alliance is an open special interest group of companies who have adopted the ANT+ promise of interoperability. The Alliance ensures standardized communications through optimized brand value and partnerships with other top tier products. ANT, ANT+ and the ANT+ Alliance are all managed by the ANT Wireless division of Garmin Canada Inc.
Read More...
Read More...
Anyway, yes, academic for the purpose of this thread. I find the politics and economics of it interesting though. The fact that ANT+ is ultimately owned by Garmin explains why Polar only supported Bluetooth until recently.
Back on topic, some of the DC Rainmaker comments about the Wahoo leave me wondering if I shouldn't try the Garmin 830 first.
-Tim-
#38
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I’ve got “ paralysis by analysis.“ I’m in a holding pattern, as my old computer is still serviceable. When I do buy one, though, it will probably be the Garmin edge 830. Oh, wait, or maybe the Wahoo. Oh, geez.
#39
Senior Member
I think that critical aspect of Wahoo's appeal--out-of-the-box reliability--is still very much valid. It just works. I'm pretty simple and I don't need most of the new features that some of the new units offer. I just want it to record my ride and tell me how fast I'm going while doing it, more or less.
Yes, there were a few issues with the firmware updates back in May, but I think they've been blown way out of proportion. They seem to have been fixed pretty much immediately.
I admit that I am just a single user but I haven't had any problems with my Bolt since they fixed the firmware updates. Even the problems I had were fairly minimal -- it screwed up how I had some pages organized, and it changed all my units to metric. I didn't actually lose any data.
So yeah, the Wahoo doesn't have as many features, but it just plain works.
Caveat: I've never used a Garmin so I can't compare it directly. They're probably great. But I've had no complaints with Wahoo.
#40
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Mine is also serviceable and I'm waffling on brand more than a politician.
Really waiting for an REI sale or some other reason to spend the money.
#41
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The thing that concerns me the most is his comment that the Garmin has twice the battery life. I should go back and reread to make sure I'm not mistaken.
-Tim-
#42
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the way I read his Roam review was that it was good, but it wasn't as good as it should have been relative to the new Garmins. My guess is they will do an update to catch up.
#43
So a lot of people have the Wahoo "Just Works" mentality over Garmin. Being someone who has used both now a good deal I do not see one or the other better in this respect. I have had failures with my Wahoo "Not working" just like I have with the Garmin. Actually to date I have had more "not working" events on the wahoo over the garmin but to be fair I have more time on the Wahoo. But I have only had 2 events in 6 months with Garmin (one was with an 820, the other the 830). I have NEVER lost a ride with either Wahoo or Garmin. My events have been a won't start or won't connect to a sensor issue. I have been burned by bad firmware on the Wahoo, not yet had that experience with the Garmin. Mind you the bad firmware was an early version of the Elemnt and the resolve was to do a force reset to get it working again but it prevented me from using it on a ride.
Even with that said I have been happy with both Garmin and Wahoo, but for my use case the Garmin is better.
Even with that said I have been happy with both Garmin and Wahoo, but for my use case the Garmin is better.
#44
Senior Member
Yeah, I'll give him that. My Bolt will last about 11-12 hours. For 99.9% of the rides I do that's fine. On Dirty Kanza I just brought a spare power supply, but I do rides like that once, maybe twice, a year.
#45
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Thread Starter
To provide some thread closure: I just recently bought the Garmin Edge 530. Chose the 530 (over the 830) because I already have three pair of full-fingered riding gloves, none of which have those touchpad-compatible fingertips - so the 530's pushbuttons (and $100 lower price) were appealing to me.
Chose Garmin not for any particular features, but b/c some of the features seem preferable to me: being able to switch screens (rather than zooming in an out to change the number of data fields), slightly better integration with Di2, slightly more sophisticated navigation, etc.
The device has an extremely steep (for me) learning curve: have had to post a few questions to a Garmin users' forum and call CS twice just to get certain features set up properly. (Wahoo MUST be better in this regard....It could not be worse.) However, I think I am close to having it configured as per my preferences, and have ridden 3x with it and had no problems. But seriously, if I run into one more roadblock with the setup, I may return it (to REI) and get a Wahool Bolt. It really is that difficult, and the Garmin online manual is not very useful.
Chose Garmin not for any particular features, but b/c some of the features seem preferable to me: being able to switch screens (rather than zooming in an out to change the number of data fields), slightly better integration with Di2, slightly more sophisticated navigation, etc.
The device has an extremely steep (for me) learning curve: have had to post a few questions to a Garmin users' forum and call CS twice just to get certain features set up properly. (Wahoo MUST be better in this regard....It could not be worse.) However, I think I am close to having it configured as per my preferences, and have ridden 3x with it and had no problems. But seriously, if I run into one more roadblock with the setup, I may return it (to REI) and get a Wahool Bolt. It really is that difficult, and the Garmin online manual is not very useful.
#46
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To provide some thread closure: I just recently bought the Garmin Edge 530. Chose the 530 (over the 830) because I already have three pair of full-fingered riding gloves, none of which have those touchpad-compatible fingertips - so the 530's pushbuttons (and $100 lower price) were appealing to me.
Chose Garmin not for any particular features, but b/c some of the features seem preferable to me: being able to switch screens (rather than zooming in an out to change the number of data fields), slightly better integration with Di2, slightly more sophisticated navigation, etc.
The device has an extremely steep (for me) learning curve: have had to post a few questions to a Garmin users' forum and call CS twice just to get certain features set up properly. (Wahoo MUST be better in this regard....It could not be worse.) However, I think I am close to having it configured as per my preferences, and have ridden 3x with it and had no problems. But seriously, if I run into one more roadblock with the setup, I may return it (to REI) and get a Wahool Bolt. It really is that difficult, and the Garmin online manual is not very useful.
Chose Garmin not for any particular features, but b/c some of the features seem preferable to me: being able to switch screens (rather than zooming in an out to change the number of data fields), slightly better integration with Di2, slightly more sophisticated navigation, etc.
The device has an extremely steep (for me) learning curve: have had to post a few questions to a Garmin users' forum and call CS twice just to get certain features set up properly. (Wahoo MUST be better in this regard....It could not be worse.) However, I think I am close to having it configured as per my preferences, and have ridden 3x with it and had no problems. But seriously, if I run into one more roadblock with the setup, I may return it (to REI) and get a Wahool Bolt. It really is that difficult, and the Garmin online manual is not very useful.
#47
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Thread Starter
Yes, this. Example: setup for Strava live segments should involve one menu location… But you have to go between two menus – which involves a lot of button pushes – to get it configured the way you want it. And since it seemed totally illogical that I would have to dive into two sets of submenus, it took me a long time to figure it out.
#48
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Thread Starter
Thread update: it probably took ten hours of fiddling around, internet reading, and calls to Garmin's CS (and questions to a user's forum) to get the Edge 530 configured to my preferences. It has a very unintuitive user interface, and the online manual is a joke. Once I was finally able to start using it in earnest, I figured out that the companion app (Connect) was draining my iPhone battery to an alarming degree. Around this time, Garmin pushed out a couple app updates within a week's time or so, and so I updated it, hoping this would solve the phone battery problem. Instead, the outcome was that the computer now fails to pair with my phone each time I use it, which necessitates un-pairing the phone and computer, then repairing everything (phone, computer, app) and going through some of the initial setup again. FOR EACH RIDE.
I finally gave up and ordered a Wahoo Roam, which I configured in about twenty minutes, and which seems to stay connected to my phone without difficulty. Oh, and on today's ride, I decided that I wanted a data screen set up differently, so I whipped out my phone and changed it while riding.
The Garmin is going back. It's great in theory, but in practice it's $300 worth of frustration, at least for me.
I finally gave up and ordered a Wahoo Roam, which I configured in about twenty minutes, and which seems to stay connected to my phone without difficulty. Oh, and on today's ride, I decided that I wanted a data screen set up differently, so I whipped out my phone and changed it while riding.
The Garmin is going back. It's great in theory, but in practice it's $300 worth of frustration, at least for me.
#49
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[QUOTE=Koyote;21524441
The Garmin is going back. It's great in theory, but in practice it's $300 worth of frustration, at least for me.[/QUOTE]
Probably the smart move. I think we'd be curious to know your Wahoo experience.
The Garmin is going back. It's great in theory, but in practice it's $300 worth of frustration, at least for me.[/QUOTE]
Probably the smart move. I think we'd be curious to know your Wahoo experience.
#50
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Thread Starter