Disc brakes are now the default on road bikes and no one cares
#476
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Exactly, and neither does the thickness of spacers you are using. It's a matter of preference and that's the point I was trying to make. There's a good reason why the steerer tube doesn't come pre-cut to a specific length. As long as you feel great on your bike, it's all that matters.
Last edited by eduskator; 03-03-20 at 12:54 PM.
#477
Senior Member
When I was first fitted for a classic Italian steel racing bike 35 or 40 years ago, the standard sizing guideline was based mostly on standover height. You bought the largest frame that you could stand over without putting stress on the family jewels. That was a function of leg length, not overall body height. The stem length was the variable to account for upper body size. Back then, and still to today, steel frames were offered in a lot of sizes. The Cinelli Supercorsa comes in 17 sizes, so does the Colnago Master, De Rosas come in 14 or 15 sizes, Tommasini comes in 16. I was 6' 0" back then and rode a 59 cm frame. I still ride a 59 at age 72 having lost an inch and a half to age. My stems have gotten shorter and a little higher.
#478
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Poor comparison. The number of spacers is actually an important indicator of correct frame size.
No one is saying your preference isn't important. The reality, however, is that you prefer an undersize frame, and you compensate for the small frame by using of a lot of spacers.
It's a matter of preference and that's the point I was trying to make.
#479
Senior Member
Exactly, and neither does the thickness of spacers you are using. It's a matter of preference and that's the point I was trying to make. There's a good reason why the steerer tube doesn't come pre-cut to a specific length. As long as you feel great on your bike, it's all that matters.
Every one of my wife's and my bikes was professionally fit by real experts and it does make a difference. And when I say fit, I mean seat height, fore-aft placement, stem length and height, handlebar width and depth, handlebar mounting angle, crank arm length and to a lesser extent, chainring sizes and cassette sizing. And, these measurements can be different for road bikes, gravel bikes and time trial bikes.
#480
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Exactly, and neither does the thickness of spacers you are using. It's a matter of preference and that's the point I was trying to make. There's a good reason why the steerer tube doesn't come pre-cut to a specific length. As long as you feel great on your bike, it's all that matters.
#481
Senior Member
Exactly, and neither does the thickness of spacers you are using. It's a matter of preference and that's the point I was trying to make. There's a good reason why the steerer tube doesn't come pre-cut to a specific length. As long as you feel great on your bike, it's all that matters.
Confirmation bias is a thing.
All three of my bicycles have disc brakes.
#482
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I think most are made to 300mm. I use an uncut steer tube because I want the bar high and don't want to use any contraptions to get it there. I also use frames with at least a 200mm head tube so I don't have to use a big stack of spacers.
#483
They do come pre-cut to a specific length; a length that offers a range of adjustment while maintaining an adequate safety margin. Ideally (arguably), your most used position is near the center of the range. This affords you some room to change positions depending on your mood, type of ride, fitness level, age or planetary alignment. If you end up with your adjustment at one end of the range, it indicates you started off on the wrong size frame or you made it that way by modifying it yourself; like chopping the steering tube for vanity purposes.
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#484
Senior Member
That bike may fit very well. It just has no room left for adjustment other than the stem length and angle.
None of that is a bad thing. It's just a matter of fact.
BTW, I think that bike looks great!
Edit:
If you are very advanced in your fitment requirements, then you likely will eliminate the unnecessary/unsightly elements.
The rider of that bike is likely very advanced in understanding their fit requirements for their riding discipline.
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#485
When a bike fits well, you don't need a wide range of adjustment
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#486
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#488
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I'm sticking to rim breaks for the simple reasons of 1) they work just fine for me and have the past 50 years. I like tinkering with bikes and doing unusual setups to do specific rides. I love riding fix gear and do over half my riding there, One bike goes back and forth between geared and fixed. I have 5 bikes I love. 20 wheels. All the fronts are plug and play. Maybe a tiny tweak of brake cable for the wider Mavic Open Sport rims. Swapping wheels is an easy about to depart thing. I have 3 different standards for rear wheel widths, 120, 126 and 130 so there are limits on what wheels fit which bikes but fixed or free isn't one of them. And I get to have a rear brake with a flip-flop fix-fix. Can't do that with disc. (A lot harder to master correct chain slack with discs too.) Also I have hubs that range from new to 40 years old. Brakes don't care.
In my 200,000 miles of riding I've blown one tire from overheating. 45 years ago, long before discs could have helped me and nowadays they don't ever let you ride down that hill so it isn't an issue anymore. (Mt Washington.) Yes,I've done descents with rim heat in mind. I've done descents with wet rims in mind. (Alba Road near Santa Cruz in a winter Pacific storm on the Mooney with Mafac cantilevers. Yeah, my hands got tired and halfway down I had to go to two fingers. Braked the entire time. Let off and I wasn't making the next corner. There were rivers an inch deep running across the road. And yes, a disk braker would have beaten me down by maybe 30 seconds. Oh well.)
As a tinkerer, I get to add and move spacers to wheels for different bike and gearing needs without sweating the brakes. Might have to insert the wheel a little off if haven't corrected the dish yet, but I can ride the next few hundred miles until I get around to it, no big deal. And altering the caliper for less than perfect dish with either canti, center pulls or side pulls with the sweet flats for a cone wrench takes very little time.
Now, as the OP says, re: new bikes - I really don't care. My next will be custom. I don't think many framebuilders object too strenuously to having to go through the additional work of making the frame rim brake compatible. (And I like the idea that fork blades, fork stiffness and strength can be chosen without discs to think about. There are a lot of sweet rides out there that are not disc worthy,) I do like the clean look of no brake calipers, but I go tho the velodrome to see that done right. Discs totally mess up the look of clean low flange front wheels. And for rear brakes, side pull or dual pivot, you can mount them in front of the chainstays for a cleaner look if you are going custom.
The arguments for wider tires - that's just frame choices. Making rim bike frames that accommodate large tires has been done for 120 years. My Mooney can run 38s or larger in front, 35s in back. (I can run 38s in back if I have too but need to deflate and cannot side the wheel far forward in the dropout. But that has nothing to do with brakes. And I could get the chainstays dimpled.) Discs - a good solution. I'm still looking for the problem. (Not very hard. I've got better things to do.)
Ben
In my 200,000 miles of riding I've blown one tire from overheating. 45 years ago, long before discs could have helped me and nowadays they don't ever let you ride down that hill so it isn't an issue anymore. (Mt Washington.) Yes,I've done descents with rim heat in mind. I've done descents with wet rims in mind. (Alba Road near Santa Cruz in a winter Pacific storm on the Mooney with Mafac cantilevers. Yeah, my hands got tired and halfway down I had to go to two fingers. Braked the entire time. Let off and I wasn't making the next corner. There were rivers an inch deep running across the road. And yes, a disk braker would have beaten me down by maybe 30 seconds. Oh well.)
As a tinkerer, I get to add and move spacers to wheels for different bike and gearing needs without sweating the brakes. Might have to insert the wheel a little off if haven't corrected the dish yet, but I can ride the next few hundred miles until I get around to it, no big deal. And altering the caliper for less than perfect dish with either canti, center pulls or side pulls with the sweet flats for a cone wrench takes very little time.
Now, as the OP says, re: new bikes - I really don't care. My next will be custom. I don't think many framebuilders object too strenuously to having to go through the additional work of making the frame rim brake compatible. (And I like the idea that fork blades, fork stiffness and strength can be chosen without discs to think about. There are a lot of sweet rides out there that are not disc worthy,) I do like the clean look of no brake calipers, but I go tho the velodrome to see that done right. Discs totally mess up the look of clean low flange front wheels. And for rear brakes, side pull or dual pivot, you can mount them in front of the chainstays for a cleaner look if you are going custom.
The arguments for wider tires - that's just frame choices. Making rim bike frames that accommodate large tires has been done for 120 years. My Mooney can run 38s or larger in front, 35s in back. (I can run 38s in back if I have too but need to deflate and cannot side the wheel far forward in the dropout. But that has nothing to do with brakes. And I could get the chainstays dimpled.) Discs - a good solution. I'm still looking for the problem. (Not very hard. I've got better things to do.)
Ben
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#489
Senior Member
I'm sticking to rim breaks for the simple reasons of 1) they work just fine for me and have the past 50 years. I like tinkering with bikes and doing unusual setups to do specific rides. I love riding fix gear and do over half my riding there, One bike goes back and forth between geared and fixed. I have 5 bikes I love. 20 wheels. All the fronts are plug and play. Maybe a tiny tweak of brake cable for the wider Mavic Open Sport rims. Swapping wheels is an easy about to depart thing. I have 3 different standards for rear wheel widths, 120, 126 and 130 so there are limits on what wheels fit which bikes but fixed or free isn't one of them. And I get to have a rear brake with a flip-flop fix-fix. Can't do that with disc. (A lot harder to master correct chain slack with discs too.) Also I have hubs that range from new to 40 years old. Brakes don't care.
In my 200,000 miles of riding I've blown one tire from overheating. 45 years ago, long before discs could have helped me and nowadays they don't ever let you ride down that hill so it isn't an issue anymore. (Mt Washington.) Yes,I've done descents with rim heat in mind. I've done descents with wet rims in mind. (Alba Road near Santa Cruz in a winter Pacific storm on the Mooney with Mafac cantilevers. Yeah, my hands got tired and halfway down I had to go to two fingers. Braked the entire time. Let off and I wasn't making the next corner. There were rivers an inch deep running across the road. And yes, a disk braker would have beaten me down by maybe 30 seconds. Oh well.)
As a tinkerer, I get to add and move spacers to wheels for different bike and gearing needs without sweating the brakes. Might have to insert the wheel a little off if haven't corrected the dish yet, but I can ride the next few hundred miles until I get around to it, no big deal. And altering the caliper for less than perfect dish with either canti, center pulls or side pulls with the sweet flats for a cone wrench takes very little time.
Now, as the OP says, re: new bikes - I really don't care. My next will be custom. I don't think many framebuilders object too strenuously to having to go through the additional work of making the frame rim brake compatible. (And I like the idea that fork blades, fork stiffness and strength can be chosen without discs to think about. There are a lot of sweet rides out there that are not disc worthy,) I do like the clean look of no brake calipers, but I go tho the velodrome to see that done right. Discs totally mess up the look of clean low flange front wheels. And for rear brakes, side pull or dual pivot, you can mount them in front of the chainstays for a cleaner look if you are going custom.
The arguments for wider tires - that's just frame choices. Making rim bike frames that accommodate large tires has been done for 120 years. My Mooney can run 38s or larger in front, 35s in back. (I can run 38s in back if I have too but need to deflate and cannot side the wheel far forward in the dropout. But that has nothing to do with brakes. And I could get the chainstays dimpled.) Discs - a good solution. I'm still looking for the problem. (Not very hard. I've got better things to do.)
Ben
In my 200,000 miles of riding I've blown one tire from overheating. 45 years ago, long before discs could have helped me and nowadays they don't ever let you ride down that hill so it isn't an issue anymore. (Mt Washington.) Yes,I've done descents with rim heat in mind. I've done descents with wet rims in mind. (Alba Road near Santa Cruz in a winter Pacific storm on the Mooney with Mafac cantilevers. Yeah, my hands got tired and halfway down I had to go to two fingers. Braked the entire time. Let off and I wasn't making the next corner. There were rivers an inch deep running across the road. And yes, a disk braker would have beaten me down by maybe 30 seconds. Oh well.)
As a tinkerer, I get to add and move spacers to wheels for different bike and gearing needs without sweating the brakes. Might have to insert the wheel a little off if haven't corrected the dish yet, but I can ride the next few hundred miles until I get around to it, no big deal. And altering the caliper for less than perfect dish with either canti, center pulls or side pulls with the sweet flats for a cone wrench takes very little time.
Now, as the OP says, re: new bikes - I really don't care. My next will be custom. I don't think many framebuilders object too strenuously to having to go through the additional work of making the frame rim brake compatible. (And I like the idea that fork blades, fork stiffness and strength can be chosen without discs to think about. There are a lot of sweet rides out there that are not disc worthy,) I do like the clean look of no brake calipers, but I go tho the velodrome to see that done right. Discs totally mess up the look of clean low flange front wheels. And for rear brakes, side pull or dual pivot, you can mount them in front of the chainstays for a cleaner look if you are going custom.
The arguments for wider tires - that's just frame choices. Making rim bike frames that accommodate large tires has been done for 120 years. My Mooney can run 38s or larger in front, 35s in back. (I can run 38s in back if I have too but need to deflate and cannot side the wheel far forward in the dropout. But that has nothing to do with brakes. And I could get the chainstays dimpled.) Discs - a good solution. I'm still looking for the problem. (Not very hard. I've got better things to do.)
Ben
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#490
Senior Member
I'm with you. I've had rim brakes since my first bike a three speed Raleigh in 1955. Then ten speeds with the argument over center pull and side pull. They all worked fine NO problems. I bought an Electric bike with Disc brakes a month ago and have ridden it about 6 times. The front disk is now rubbing. God knows why and I've been reading up on how to fix it. What a PITA. Yes, disks are more efficient but so what .
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#491
Jedi Master
#493
Senior Member
The SMP Pro has been my saddle of choice for several years and I have it on several bikes. This particular one has carbon rails and weighs 288 grams.
#494
Senior Member
I've been using Campy for 25 years now. I have two bikes with the new chorus 12 groups. The frames use center mount rim brakes that work great. If you go to the Campy website and read about the direct mount brake, improved braking power is not one of the advantages. If it was, Campy would be bragging about it.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake
#495
Jedi Master
#496
Senior Member
Help me here. You can't skid the front tire in a straight line on dry pavement on any width tire. At max the rear will be just off the ground or close so how is a fat tire helping here other than the change in handling?
#497
Senior Member
#498
Senior Member
Well, it is pretty hard to tell what the saddle looks like when I am riding it.
One of our LBS used to have over 100 different saddles and a mock up bike with a clamp so you could change saddles in seconds. After trying out over 60 different saddles, this is the one that fit me the best. It is not cheap, with carbon frame and rails, it lists for $480. At my age, I get what I want. If I was just going to put the bike on the wall I would get a https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/wr-compo...carbon-saddle/ that weighs 62 grams.
One of our LBS used to have over 100 different saddles and a mock up bike with a clamp so you could change saddles in seconds. After trying out over 60 different saddles, this is the one that fit me the best. It is not cheap, with carbon frame and rails, it lists for $480. At my age, I get what I want. If I was just going to put the bike on the wall I would get a https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/wr-compo...carbon-saddle/ that weighs 62 grams.
Last edited by Johnk3; 04-18-20 at 12:32 PM.
#499
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Always curious about those SMPs.. is there actually a way a rider utilizes/sits on that droopy part at the front? Otherwise.. why isn't it just a shortened saddle and save the weight?
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#500
Senior Member