I tried half step and I like it
#26
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I tried half step and I liked it...
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#27
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1985 Cannondale ST-400
When I upgraded my ST-400 from its original components a couple of years ago I combined some vintage ideas with newer ones. So now it has 27" wheels with 9-speed hubs and a 3x9 half-step plus granny drivetrain. I have considered reducing it to downshift levers (I actually have a set of Microshift friction/index DT levers) and aero brake levers to follow a more vintage aesthetic, but it seems to work pretty well as-is.
#28
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The original purpose of half-step gearing was to provide reasonably sized steps for widely spaced 5-speed (or less) freewheels. I don't quite understand the point of using half-step (or triples for that matter) for 9- and 10-speed cassettes as a few of the posters above have suggested. The percentage differences for those half-steps must be miniscule. Can you even detect that you've changed gears?
#29
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The original purpose of half-step gearing was to provide reasonably sized steps for widely spaced 5-speed (or less) freewheels. I don't quite understand the point of using half-step (or triples for that matter) for 9- and 10-speed cassettes as a few of the posters above have suggested. The percentage differences for those half-steps must be miniscule. Can you even detect that you've changed gears?
On my mountain bike I use 48-40-28 / 12-13-15-17-19-21-24-28, for a beautiful 1.5-step-plus-granny. If I I ever convert to 9 speeds, I plan to add a 32T to the bottom end and keep all other chainring and cog sizes the same.
What I really like about half or 1.5 step is that most of the time I can simply skip a ratio and just move from cog to cog, but when I need in-between trimming, it is easily accomplished with a double shift, which is trivial to accomplish with thumbies or barcons and not bad with downtube levers.
True anecdote about "can you even detect that you've changed gears?": I copied the Nishiki Road Compe stock 1.5-step gearing, 54-44/14-16-18-21-24, for the 1972 Los Angeles Wheelmen Double Century. This was Nishiki's answer to the 52-42/14-16-18-21-24 combination that was becoming popular on European racing bikes. I downshifted as I approached a gentle upslope and passed a couple of riders, one of whom said, "He just shifted across his whole range, and it probably made about two gear-inches of difference."
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
Last edited by John E; 12-23-20 at 12:34 PM.
#30
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The original purpose of half-step gearing was to provide reasonably sized steps for widely spaced 5-speed (or less) freewheels. I don't quite understand the point of using half-step (or triples for that matter) for 9- and 10-speed cassettes as a few of the posters above have suggested. The percentage differences for those half-steps must be miniscule. Can you even detect that you've changed gears?
#31
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I agree that the steps kind of lose their elegance when paired with a freewheel over seven speeds. It does produce steps that are like a very tight freewheel. So now I can feel like a racer on the flats, and a creeper on the hills. :-)
#32
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I have heard over the years about the half step gearing approach - always thought it sounded cool in theory but had never actually tried it. Well, I have now busted through the theory barrier and I have to say I really like it.
I tried this out (prior to the freezing cold and snow) on my Peugeot AO-8, with a 50/47 front and a 14/16/19/23/27/30 freewheel (I guess that is almost half step plus granny!).....this gives 42 to 96 gear inches with most differences in the 6-7% range (a couple of outliers but I do indeed have all 12 gears available if I really want it).
First off, Suntour SL front changer laughs at the 3 tooth difference on the front....silent and swift changes. The Vx Luxe on the back never had any issue with the freewheel before this. But the riding is sooooo smooth! I am not a slave to gear progression, so I didn't even kind of follow the classic shift pattern. But within the scope of the gear range I have; I am always able to find a proper gear.....
In short - it is worth considering if you haven't tried it!
I tried this out (prior to the freezing cold and snow) on my Peugeot AO-8, with a 50/47 front and a 14/16/19/23/27/30 freewheel (I guess that is almost half step plus granny!).....this gives 42 to 96 gear inches with most differences in the 6-7% range (a couple of outliers but I do indeed have all 12 gears available if I really want it).
First off, Suntour SL front changer laughs at the 3 tooth difference on the front....silent and swift changes. The Vx Luxe on the back never had any issue with the freewheel before this. But the riding is sooooo smooth! I am not a slave to gear progression, so I didn't even kind of follow the classic shift pattern. But within the scope of the gear range I have; I am always able to find a proper gear.....
In short - it is worth considering if you haven't tried it!
In this case it makes almost no difference in the gearing pattern.
#33
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Has any one played with a calculator to find a 9 speed or more range that would make sense using a 1/2 step in the front. Maybe with modern chains and chainrings you could do it and leave out the Granny. In my limited experience with 5 speed 1/2 step + Granny, I could use all cogs with either of the large chain rings. The only combo that sounded like trouble was the Granny ring and small cog but that combo was not needed.
BUT, There is nothing classic about 9, 10, 11, or 12 speed unless it is a corn cob. I think 1/2 step plus Granny 5 speed is classic and elegant.
BUT, There is nothing classic about 9, 10, 11, or 12 speed unless it is a corn cob. I think 1/2 step plus Granny 5 speed is classic and elegant.
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#34
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The original purpose of half-step gearing was to provide reasonably sized steps for widely spaced 5-speed (or less) freewheels. I don't quite understand the point of using half-step (or triples for that matter) for 9- and 10-speed cassettes as a few of the posters above have suggested. The percentage differences for those half-steps must be miniscule. Can you even detect that you've changed gears?
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#35
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It seems unlikely you would find anything suitable. Think about the steps on a 14-28 five-speed freewheel. They are basically two gear changes apart, I think about a 20% jump between cogs. OTOH, the change in front on a 47-50 is one change. To preserve those properties with a six-speed you might add a 34 (just guessing) up top. Maybe a 13t small cog (but will you use it unless you reduce your chainring sizes?). To keep adding cogs, I suspect you might be limited to the big end. How big do those cogs need to be to maintain a 20% change from cog to cog? The largest cog in a nine-speed setup would probably look like the hubcap from a '57 Caddy.
#36
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My personal favorite is 50/45+(28, 26 or 24) paired with 14-17-21-26-32. This is a hard FW to find, but they existed. (It drives me crazy to see how many touring bikes came with half step cranksets improperly paired with regular FW’s, but I digress.) One can make a 6s system by adding an 11t (only possible with certain hubs) or 12t high end.
Drifting back to the question of shifting: DT or bar end. I prefer bar end, but I’m biased that way with or without half step, so take that with a grain of salt. I also slightly prefer indexed shifting, especially with more sprockets in back.
More drift: Shimano’s 7s bar end came with a little plastic clip (rare as hen’s teeth) that inserted into the cable routing track to change the cable pull from 7s to 6s. The cool thing is that 6s and 5s use the same sprocket spacing and a 6s shifter can be used to index with standard 5s FW’s! (Another alternative is to mount 6s DT levers on bar end pods.)
After all that ranting, I have to be honest: I find that I very rarely use the half step on my rando-ized Trek, but it is nice to have when I need it. I use it much more frequently on my go-fast 7s half-step RB-1 which I suppose makes sense because I’m usually hammering and trying to maintain cadence.
Oh, and when you start obsessing over gain ratios and want to find the ideal setup, let me know and I’ll send you the spreadsheet coding to completely lose your mind.
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#37
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The original purpose of half-step gearing was to provide reasonably sized steps for widely spaced 5-speed (or less) freewheels. I don't quite understand the point of using half-step (or triples for that matter) for 9- and 10-speed cassettes as a few of the posters above have suggested. The percentage differences for those half-steps must be miniscule. Can you even detect that you've changed gears?
#38
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L134 I think your use of the term "half-step gearing" muddies things because what you describe seems distinctly different than what the term typically means. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing. It's just not half-step gearing. At its simplest, half-step gearing means something like a 10% difference between the two chainrings and about 20% difference between the rear cogs. Something like this. (Actually, 46-50 up front would be closer to what I describe, but 47-50 was common as I understand it. It's how my Frejus was equipped.)
#39
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L134 I think your use of the term "half-step gearing" muddies things because what you describe seems distinctly different than what the term typically means. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing. It's just not half-step gearing. At its simplest, half-step gearing means something like a 10% difference between the two chainrings and about 20% difference between the rear cogs. Something like this. (Actually, 46-50 up front would be closer to what I describe, but 47-50 was common as I understand it. It's how my Frejus was equipped.)
Unfortunately the scarcity of odd tooth count chain rings is the most limiting factor.
#40
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If someone thinks that the 1-tooth jumps in their 13-14-15-16-17 freewheel are just too big, and solves the issue with a 60-58 crankset, that... well, it would be unusual and draw a lot of funny looks, but it would be half-step.
#41
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#42
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Nice! Now if the chain can swing from the 12 to the 32 from both chainrings, that is pretty cool. And that cassette is a stock item? And who doesn't have a 42 and a 39 laying around! Bravo!
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