Mysterious Road Bike Crash Forensics
08-22-21, 07:50 PM
#76
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Correct, front wheel shows no problem from crash.
The bars were tight. I couldn't straighten them without loosening the clamp screws. The impact on the hoods caused the bars to move. So no, no touching of the bar adjustment for as long as I can remember.
I think panic braking in response to.... something... (that something likely related to the crack,) caused the endo. A little further evidence: rear brake QR was down, so rear brake response would be extra slow. And front wheel has had a rim issue that causes a bit of a grab-release pulse in front braking. But she's a confident, fast descender, comfortable at 40 MPH. And here it was casual 20 MPH. We'd actually gotten back on the bikes after a 15 minute break, --short hike to a waterfall, wild mushroom picking-- only 1/4 mile before the fall.
That video sure is a shocker. But road debris can pretty much be ruled out here, since I had just covered the same stretch of road, and looked back at it carefully afterwards.
The bars were tight. I couldn't straighten them without loosening the clamp screws. The impact on the hoods caused the bars to move. So no, no touching of the bar adjustment for as long as I can remember.
I think panic braking in response to.... something... (that something likely related to the crack,) caused the endo. A little further evidence: rear brake QR was down, so rear brake response would be extra slow. And front wheel has had a rim issue that causes a bit of a grab-release pulse in front braking. But she's a confident, fast descender, comfortable at 40 MPH. And here it was casual 20 MPH. We'd actually gotten back on the bikes after a 15 minute break, --short hike to a waterfall, wild mushroom picking-- only 1/4 mile before the fall.
That video sure is a shocker. But road debris can pretty much be ruled out here, since I had just covered the same stretch of road, and looked back at it carefully afterwards.
and with 32mm tires I was surprised the bars rotated down. I have an SL6 so made sure the clamp was clean and torqued to the maximum value.
08-23-21, 11:20 AM
#77
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Sorry this happened. I had a Cervical fracture that created some serious problems.
Anyway, you'll never know. I spent many years as an instructor for motorcycle riders on the race track, where crashes are common.
I've dealt with hundreds of crashes. Most share a common etiology.
A. Rider error.
B. Equipment malfunction.
C. External factor.
Most riders sadly believe that it was their tires or an external factor, but most crashes are rider error derived. That's what we learned in hundreds of crashes. Rider error includes sudden evasive moves to ameliorate an unexpected but possibly not problematic situation.
Anyway, you'll never know. I spent many years as an instructor for motorcycle riders on the race track, where crashes are common.
I've dealt with hundreds of crashes. Most share a common etiology.
A. Rider error.
B. Equipment malfunction.
C. External factor.
Most riders sadly believe that it was their tires or an external factor, but most crashes are rider error derived. That's what we learned in hundreds of crashes. Rider error includes sudden evasive moves to ameliorate an unexpected but possibly not problematic situation.
08-23-21, 11:35 AM
#78
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Yeah, given she did not cry out, and her odd posture on the ground, I’d strongly consider that she was out before hitting the floor. Why that would have happened, I don’t know, but maybe looking at her tests and scans with that possibility in mind may reveal something.
I’m sorry you and she are in such a scary situation. Best wishes.
I’m sorry you and she are in such a scary situation. Best wishes.
I once had a near-off when descending on the hoods; I hit a pothole hard, and the impact tilted my bars forward. It took a lot of effort to regain control. I’ve always descended in the drops ever since, and I make sure to really cinch down the stem plate bolts.
I suspect the crack in the road probably caused the loss of control, and by the sounds of things a resulting tilt in the bars may have contributed as well; if the bars were moved in the crash, I would expect them to be turned around, rather than tilted.
08-23-21, 11:46 AM
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Typically if you trip or go over the handlebars you'll try to break your fall - scraped palms and maybe broken collar bone. Faint or pass out and your face hits first.
08-23-21, 11:55 AM
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I’m hoping the cumulative experience and knowledge of this forum’s members can help solve the mystery of why my wife fell on a road bike ride about three weeks ago. We were descending a gentle grade on a very quiet, decently paved road through mostly wooded western Massachusetts. I was about 100 feet ahead of her, coasting at about 20 MPH when I heard an unusual and alarming splat, and turned around to see her motionless face down in the road. She appeared to be dead.
When I ran to her I could see she was breathing, and blood was pooling beneath her head. She was out cold for about 2 minutes. When she regained consciousness she was confused as to what was happening, with no memory of the fall. Ambulance arrived about 15 minutes after the fall, and after a ten minute ride to the nearest hospital she was airlifted to a major trauma center.
When I finally was able to join her two hours later she was lucid, and aware she had a C1 Vertebra fracture, which she was told was rare, (but not told how potentially dangerous).
She ended up not needing surgery for the neck fracture. She’s recovering nicely, with no nerve damage, and only minor, diminishing concussion fallout.
She’s a very experienced rider in her early 60’s. We’ve toured together for several thousand miles, and she’s probably logged 50,000 miles of recreational road riding. She has no idea why she fell. Two friends riding with us were too far behind to see the fall. There was a minor crack in the road, parallel to the road, for about 15 feet about 50 feet before her landing spot, but not anything one would think twice about simply riding over. She had been having some trouble lately with front derailleur shifting, sometimes looking down at the chain ring as she shifted, so distraction from that has been our prime suspect, but the nature of her fall and the bike’s condition make me doubt that theory.
She landed in a more or less bottom of a push-up position. Her helmet took a good hit on the front brim, as did her nose and chin, as well as her breasts. If it were me (skinny guy) I’d have probably broken ribs from the same fall. But apart from some scrapes on her elbows and the bruises on her face, and of course the terrifying C-1 fracture, she suffered no other injuries.
We picked up the bikes today from the small town police station they’d been stored at. The handlebars were torqued upwards in their clamp from the force taken entirely it seems from the apex of the brake levers. No perceptible twist anywhere, wheels true. Since she has no memory of the fall, It’s as if the bike were lifted and dropped on its nose by a poltergeist. Not knowing why she fell is very disconcerting for her (me too). .
I’d like to know what thoughts people have about the likely cause of this fall. I’m guessing the injuries to bike and rider are pretty distinctive, and might suggest a cause to riders who’ve experienced something similar with an awareness of the cause.
I tried to post photos of her injuries and the bike's but since I'm a new user the forum didn't allow it.....
When I ran to her I could see she was breathing, and blood was pooling beneath her head. She was out cold for about 2 minutes. When she regained consciousness she was confused as to what was happening, with no memory of the fall. Ambulance arrived about 15 minutes after the fall, and after a ten minute ride to the nearest hospital she was airlifted to a major trauma center.
When I finally was able to join her two hours later she was lucid, and aware she had a C1 Vertebra fracture, which she was told was rare, (but not told how potentially dangerous).
She ended up not needing surgery for the neck fracture. She’s recovering nicely, with no nerve damage, and only minor, diminishing concussion fallout.
She’s a very experienced rider in her early 60’s. We’ve toured together for several thousand miles, and she’s probably logged 50,000 miles of recreational road riding. She has no idea why she fell. Two friends riding with us were too far behind to see the fall. There was a minor crack in the road, parallel to the road, for about 15 feet about 50 feet before her landing spot, but not anything one would think twice about simply riding over. She had been having some trouble lately with front derailleur shifting, sometimes looking down at the chain ring as she shifted, so distraction from that has been our prime suspect, but the nature of her fall and the bike’s condition make me doubt that theory.
She landed in a more or less bottom of a push-up position. Her helmet took a good hit on the front brim, as did her nose and chin, as well as her breasts. If it were me (skinny guy) I’d have probably broken ribs from the same fall. But apart from some scrapes on her elbows and the bruises on her face, and of course the terrifying C-1 fracture, she suffered no other injuries.
We picked up the bikes today from the small town police station they’d been stored at. The handlebars were torqued upwards in their clamp from the force taken entirely it seems from the apex of the brake levers. No perceptible twist anywhere, wheels true. Since she has no memory of the fall, It’s as if the bike were lifted and dropped on its nose by a poltergeist. Not knowing why she fell is very disconcerting for her (me too). .
I’d like to know what thoughts people have about the likely cause of this fall. I’m guessing the injuries to bike and rider are pretty distinctive, and might suggest a cause to riders who’ve experienced something similar with an awareness of the cause.
I tried to post photos of her injuries and the bike's but since I'm a new user the forum didn't allow it.....
08-23-21, 12:32 PM
#81
RidesOldTrek
So sorry to hear, my sympathies to you and your wife.
I was riding behind a friend who wiped out for no apparent reason. Unlike your wife’s crash, my friend was making a fast turn when he went down. The only culprit we could find was a flattened portion of a plastic drink cup that must have been under his front tire mid-turn. No serious bike damage.
seems unlikely to be what happened here but something to ponder.
I was riding behind a friend who wiped out for no apparent reason. Unlike your wife’s crash, my friend was making a fast turn when he went down. The only culprit we could find was a flattened portion of a plastic drink cup that must have been under his front tire mid-turn. No serious bike damage.
seems unlikely to be what happened here but something to ponder.
08-23-21, 01:57 PM
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Watch the video of Valverde's crash in the 2021 Vuelta. The best analysis shows his wheel striking a small longitudinal defect in the pavement. It happens to the best.
08-23-21, 02:00 PM
#83
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I think panic braking in response to.... something... (that something likely related to the crack,) caused the endo. A little further evidence: rear brake QR was down, so rear brake response would be extra slow. And front wheel has had a rim issue that causes a bit of a grab-release pulse in front braking.
- mountain biking uphill
- realized shorts pocket was open used my hand on that side to close it (rear brake hand)
- got to the top of the hill and went to stop
- hit the (front brake only) with the hand still on the bars
- locked up the front wheel and flipped over the bars off the bike
A coworker:
- Was telling me about this advanced technique where he would use the front brake first while mountain biking
- I grimaced
- He asked me what's wrong
- I said I've heard of people doing this before and they flip themselves over the front bar
- He's dismissive
- Week later he sheepishly admits that he went over his bars just like I predicted.
Point is - if the front break was grabbing and the rear brake was loose and barely working - that's a prime combination for locking up the front wheel and throwing the rider over the bars.
But she's a confident, fast descender, comfortable at 40 MPH. And here it was casual 20 MPH. We'd actually gotten back on the bikes after a 15 minute break, --short hike to a waterfall, wild mushroom picking-- only 1/4 mile before the fall. That video sure is a shocker. But road debris can pretty much be ruled out here, since I had just covered the same stretch of road, and looked back at it carefully afterwards.
35c or 40c will all generally ride right over anything small on the road.
My mountain bike is a little slower but also more relaxing to ride as it just rolls over small stuff I have to scan the road to avoid on my 25c bike.
Last edited by PaulRivers; 08-23-21 at 05:20 PM.
08-23-21, 02:16 PM
#84
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Wow, that's a hard hit. Hopefully after being physically okay, as mentioned, she's able to get past the mental aspect to riding again. I was up after my crash last year in about 5 days but I really rode timidly for a couple of weeks, not really because of my injuries, I would find my eyes watering as I went around curves, and for a little while bike trails were actually harder for me to do than the open highway.
It was my worst spill in probably 15 years, from just a split second lapse in judgment. Rounding a curve at about 25mph on a concrete bike trail, I had a walker in my lane and a runner coming in the other lane, and I went to go around the walker but misjudged the distance to the runner and had to hit the brakes hard, and got a reminder about physics and how a bicycle/motorcycle in motion on a sharp curve reacts under hard braking...
Went off the edge of the trail, which actually wasn't bad, but at about 20 mph I tried to get back onto the trail and didn't realize there was about a 2" lip. Both wheels hit the lip at the same time and the bike went over like it was on a hinge, I slammed into the ground like a steak getting slapped on concrete and skidded along. Both the walker and runner hurried over, my first thought was that I felt bad for the runner, he was apologizing to me, but that wasn't his fault, they both had right of way. Had rash down my arm, arsecheek, and lower leg. My bike was only 2 months old and I was more worried about IT than myself LOL.
The worst part was having another 2 miles to go to get back to my vehicle. I rode slow because the wind going past the road rash on my skin felt like someone running a belt sander up and down my body. When watching professional cyclists hop back on and not only continue for another 50 or 60 miles, then do it day after day... I realize how much of a difference there is between riding casually (me) and riding professionally. Cripes I can't even imagine having to finish off 10 or 15 miles on my 30 mile ride if I were to have an accident.
But I digress, as stated, hope she is able to mentally sike herself up for getting on the bike, and hopefully this wasn't related to a medical issue that caused her to pass out or anything.
Oh, and my crash... my helmet absolutely saved me from a much more serious injury. It is astonishing that anyone (if I read the response up there in the thread earlier correctly) could ever try and act as though helmets aren't important. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of people on these boards know how ridiculous that is, either through personal experience or someone they care about getting into a bad crash. Helmets save lives for cyclists and motorcyclists alike.
It was my worst spill in probably 15 years, from just a split second lapse in judgment. Rounding a curve at about 25mph on a concrete bike trail, I had a walker in my lane and a runner coming in the other lane, and I went to go around the walker but misjudged the distance to the runner and had to hit the brakes hard, and got a reminder about physics and how a bicycle/motorcycle in motion on a sharp curve reacts under hard braking...
Went off the edge of the trail, which actually wasn't bad, but at about 20 mph I tried to get back onto the trail and didn't realize there was about a 2" lip. Both wheels hit the lip at the same time and the bike went over like it was on a hinge, I slammed into the ground like a steak getting slapped on concrete and skidded along. Both the walker and runner hurried over, my first thought was that I felt bad for the runner, he was apologizing to me, but that wasn't his fault, they both had right of way. Had rash down my arm, arsecheek, and lower leg. My bike was only 2 months old and I was more worried about IT than myself LOL.
The worst part was having another 2 miles to go to get back to my vehicle. I rode slow because the wind going past the road rash on my skin felt like someone running a belt sander up and down my body. When watching professional cyclists hop back on and not only continue for another 50 or 60 miles, then do it day after day... I realize how much of a difference there is between riding casually (me) and riding professionally. Cripes I can't even imagine having to finish off 10 or 15 miles on my 30 mile ride if I were to have an accident.
But I digress, as stated, hope she is able to mentally sike herself up for getting on the bike, and hopefully this wasn't related to a medical issue that caused her to pass out or anything.
Oh, and my crash... my helmet absolutely saved me from a much more serious injury. It is astonishing that anyone (if I read the response up there in the thread earlier correctly) could ever try and act as though helmets aren't important. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of people on these boards know how ridiculous that is, either through personal experience or someone they care about getting into a bad crash. Helmets save lives for cyclists and motorcyclists alike.
08-23-21, 04:56 PM
#85
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Sorry your wife had that crash. I hope she makes a quick recovery. I once blacked out on a ride. I was taking a medication that made my blood pressure too low. Fortunately, I was on a bike path and veered off into the dirt beside it. Separated shoulder from the crash. So my first reaction to your news was, "Is she taking a medication that caused a blackout?"
08-23-21, 06:45 PM
#86
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I’d like to know what thoughts people have about the likely cause of this fall. I’m guessing the injuries to bike and rider are pretty distinctive, and might suggest a cause to riders who’ve experienced something similar with an awareness of the cause.
I tried to post photos of her injuries and the bike's but since I'm a new user the forum didn't allow it.....
I tried to post photos of her injuries and the bike's but since I'm a new user the forum didn't allow it.....
Likes For bruce19:
08-23-21, 07:32 PM
#87
Master of the Universe
I think something locked up the front wheel. Either a crack or the front brake.
When I did my over bars face plant , it was my fault. I had gotten my water bottle with my right hand and taken a drink. I was putting it back and fumbled it a bit , causing me to look down to get it put away. I looked up and was fast approaching an intersection . My right hand was still on the bottle and I hit the front brake. Over the bars on my face.
I woke up in a pool of blood missing teeth. Got back on the bike and rode two miles back home.
Do not remember the ride home.
Concussion, Stitches inside and out of mouth. Two months to get over the concussion. No broken neck but two months of PT to get range of motion back.Front wheel locks up ,you go down fast.My deore brakes were adjusted to stop now, and it , the front one did its job well.
When I did my over bars face plant , it was my fault. I had gotten my water bottle with my right hand and taken a drink. I was putting it back and fumbled it a bit , causing me to look down to get it put away. I looked up and was fast approaching an intersection . My right hand was still on the bottle and I hit the front brake. Over the bars on my face.
I woke up in a pool of blood missing teeth. Got back on the bike and rode two miles back home.
Do not remember the ride home.
Concussion, Stitches inside and out of mouth. Two months to get over the concussion. No broken neck but two months of PT to get range of motion back.Front wheel locks up ,you go down fast.My deore brakes were adjusted to stop now, and it , the front one did its job well.
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08-23-21, 09:08 PM
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When things happen that fast the brain can't record all the data.
Here's my sorry tale - a classic cyclists clav accident...
cpcnw.co.uk/wiki/index.php?page=Grahams+Clavicle+Page
Realised I need to go back and add follow up but briefly / thankfully I have full range of motion / use of my arm back
Here's my sorry tale - a classic cyclists clav accident...
cpcnw.co.uk/wiki/index.php?page=Grahams+Clavicle+Page
Realised I need to go back and add follow up but briefly / thankfully I have full range of motion / use of my arm back
Last edited by cpcnw; 08-23-21 at 09:19 PM.
08-30-21, 10:43 AM
#89
Full Member
I’m hoping the cumulative experience and knowledge of this forum’s members can help solve the mystery of why my wife fell on a road bike ride about three weeks ago. We were descending a gentle grade on a very quiet, decently paved road through mostly wooded western Massachusetts. I was about 100 feet ahead of her, coasting at about 20 MPH when I heard an unusual and alarming splat, and turned around to see her motionless face down in the road. She appeared to be dead.
When I ran to her I could see she was breathing, and blood was pooling beneath her head. She was out cold for about 2 minutes. When she regained consciousness she was confused as to what was happening, with no memory of the fall. Ambulance arrived about 15 minutes after the fall, and after a ten minute ride to the nearest hospital she was airlifted to a major trauma center.
When I finally was able to join her two hours later she was lucid, and aware she had a C1 Vertebra fracture, which she was told was rare, (but not told how potentially dangerous).
She ended up not needing surgery for the neck fracture. She’s recovering nicely, with no nerve damage, and only minor, diminishing concussion fallout.
She’s a very experienced rider in her early 60’s. We’ve toured together for several thousand miles, and she’s probably logged 50,000 miles of recreational road riding. She has no idea why she fell. Two friends riding with us were too far behind to see the fall. There was a minor crack in the road, parallel to the road, for about 15 feet about 50 feet before her landing spot, but not anything one would think twice about simply riding over. She had been having some trouble lately with front derailleur shifting, sometimes looking down at the chain ring as she shifted, so distraction from that has been our prime suspect, but the nature of her fall and the bike’s condition make me doubt that theory.
She landed in a more or less bottom of a push-up position. Her helmet took a good hit on the front brim, as did her nose and chin, as well as her breasts. If it were me (skinny guy) I’d have probably broken ribs from the same fall. But apart from some scrapes on her elbows and the bruises on her face, and of course the terrifying C-1 fracture, she suffered no other injuries.
We picked up the bikes today from the small town police station they’d been stored at. The handlebars were torqued upwards in their clamp from the force taken entirely it seems from the apex of the brake levers. No perceptible twist anywhere, wheels true. Since she has no memory of the fall, It’s as if the bike were lifted and dropped on its nose by a poltergeist. Not knowing why she fell is very disconcerting for her (me too). .
I’d like to know what thoughts people have about the likely cause of this fall. I’m guessing the injuries to bike and rider are pretty distinctive, and might suggest a cause to riders who’ve experienced something similar with an awareness of the cause.
I tried to post photos of her injuries and the bike's but since I'm a new user the forum didn't allow it.....
When I ran to her I could see she was breathing, and blood was pooling beneath her head. She was out cold for about 2 minutes. When she regained consciousness she was confused as to what was happening, with no memory of the fall. Ambulance arrived about 15 minutes after the fall, and after a ten minute ride to the nearest hospital she was airlifted to a major trauma center.
When I finally was able to join her two hours later she was lucid, and aware she had a C1 Vertebra fracture, which she was told was rare, (but not told how potentially dangerous).
She ended up not needing surgery for the neck fracture. She’s recovering nicely, with no nerve damage, and only minor, diminishing concussion fallout.
She’s a very experienced rider in her early 60’s. We’ve toured together for several thousand miles, and she’s probably logged 50,000 miles of recreational road riding. She has no idea why she fell. Two friends riding with us were too far behind to see the fall. There was a minor crack in the road, parallel to the road, for about 15 feet about 50 feet before her landing spot, but not anything one would think twice about simply riding over. She had been having some trouble lately with front derailleur shifting, sometimes looking down at the chain ring as she shifted, so distraction from that has been our prime suspect, but the nature of her fall and the bike’s condition make me doubt that theory.
She landed in a more or less bottom of a push-up position. Her helmet took a good hit on the front brim, as did her nose and chin, as well as her breasts. If it were me (skinny guy) I’d have probably broken ribs from the same fall. But apart from some scrapes on her elbows and the bruises on her face, and of course the terrifying C-1 fracture, she suffered no other injuries.
We picked up the bikes today from the small town police station they’d been stored at. The handlebars were torqued upwards in their clamp from the force taken entirely it seems from the apex of the brake levers. No perceptible twist anywhere, wheels true. Since she has no memory of the fall, It’s as if the bike were lifted and dropped on its nose by a poltergeist. Not knowing why she fell is very disconcerting for her (me too). .
I’d like to know what thoughts people have about the likely cause of this fall. I’m guessing the injuries to bike and rider are pretty distinctive, and might suggest a cause to riders who’ve experienced something similar with an awareness of the cause.
I tried to post photos of her injuries and the bike's but since I'm a new user the forum didn't allow it.....
Very glad your wife is OK/recovering. It doesn't take much distance of a fall or speed of impact to cause serious damage, both mentally and physically. And, as we get older (I'm nearing 70 (omg 8^O we are more prone to injuries and it takes longer to heal.
There is something called a "silent stroke" which could account for your wife being "out" before she actually hit the ground. It is indeed categorized as a stroke, but is not obvious on the outside. It can cause blackouts/fainting and memory loss (and sometimes physical disablement in some manner).
My mom ended up in a hospital for that a few years back (she was in her late 80s). She had fallen at home as she was heading for the bathroom. She was rushed to the hospital and, when she awoke, she couldn't remember falling and certainly was confused as to where she was. Fortunately, her physical injuries were somewhat minor (as minor as they can be for a near-90 yr. old woman
After all sorts of testing (MRI, CAT scan, etc.) the doctors were never able to determine specifically that she had had a stroke, but they saw signs indicating that may well have been the situation. Thus, a "silent stroke".Depending on doctors recommendations, your wife might want to stay off the bike and/or possibly not drive for a while to make sure she is OK and isn't an unexpected danger to herself or to those around her. Iirc, once anything like a stroke happens, it could make that person more vulnerable to more in the future. Her doctor should be able to help her sort out that kind of thing.
Good luck and hope she makes a solid recovery and is able to get back to doing what she enjoys.....cheers...
09-01-21, 02:12 PM
#90
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I feel her pain and your frustration. Sept 11, 2012 I was riding along by myself, not going particularly fast, and literally next thing I know I'm sitting up on the road, thinking "Why I am sitting here"- had broken R clavicle, pelvic fracture, helmet was cracked, but no visible head or facial trauma. Spent 6 d in the hospital had clavicle fixed, pelvis healed on its own. Had concussion sx(dizziness, headaches) for about 2 weeks. To this day I still don't know what happened- maybe a dog? It wasn't a car, I'm certain of that.
