sande005

New member here!
Have owned a Trek XM700+ for a few years now. While it seems big in the frame for me (NO clearance when I straddle it!), with lots of messing with stems, seats and seat posts, we finally have reached a not much discomfort understanding.
Currently in the shop for routine, but comprehensive, maintenance.
When I dropped it off, got into a discussion about improving it's ride. It, as originally equipped, has a pretty poor shock absorbing headset. I had seen posts in other forums about switching to a RockShox fork, and a Kinekt seat post. The seat post is a no go - not near enough clearance for it (saddle is close to all the way down!).
The LBS threw out that I might want to consider a Redshift ShokStop stem and/or just changing out the tires (came with Schwalbe Energizer Pro). He made a strong case for at least changing tires, but being old, I of course forgot what he recommended....
The bike is heavy, and I'm way too heavy....
Riding is street/paved trails. But every expansion joint and divot is a pretty sharp jolt. A 15 mile ride makes me feel it!
Considering the much wider tires than all my old road/commuter bikes, it is worse than they were on patches of gravel/sand. But that may just be the nature of the beast (both of us being bigger/heavier).
So, looking for the recommendations on the best/worst bang for the buck - go for the full front suspension, try out alternative tires (and which ones?), skip the fork and go with the Shokstop....or anything else you may have thoughts about,

2old

Usually, I'd recommend larger tires, but that would impair clearance for you, but at least drop the pressure as much as feasible Also, check how much travel on the fork you are using, then drop the air pressure (or lighter spring if it has that system) until you are using all the travel. The rear is a problem since anything you do to soften the impacts will raise the seat.

sande005

Thanks for the thoughts!

Unfortunately, the current front suspension is pretty much the same as not having one. There is, at most, 1/2 cm travel. Just a spring in the bottom headset bearing area. Stiffness adjustment by turning a ring an 1/8th turn, but it has no noticeable effect.
As for tires, the guy noted that the current ones are very stiff/highly puncture resistant. Didn't say it, but I think he was meaning very stiff sidewalls, so was directing me to ones that had more give, even under max pressure.
I've tried, briefly, lowering the current from 80lbs to 40lbs. Helped some, but that greatly increased the amount of electric assist needed. I'm of a mind that it should be an assist and prefer not running it at all, depending on the situation.
Opinions on going full RockShox vs ShokStop stem? Sounds like a new fork may be 3+ times the cost of the stem. Would it be some multiple better?

2old

I've read good things about ShokStop, but think it's more vibration damping than suspension. On the other hand a new fork probably will raise the front end impairing clearance. There's an individual who rebuilds old forks and has some rebuilt ones to sell, highly-rated by some members, but I didn't keep the reference. Maybe someone else knows.

TPL

SOLUTION = More 15 mile rides ....lots of them

Adapting to the athletic effort it takes to ride a bicycle will NOT be as easy as sitting comfortably in a LA-Z-BOY recliner with a bowl of chips

Perhaps if you surrender your wallet to a bicycle shop they can then 'adapt' a reclining lounge chair to fit on your bicycle

Siu Blue Wind

No need to be rude here. Why would you even say that? Please leave this thread. Thank you

sande005

Just wow! Just out of order!
Never said that I limit myself to 15 miles, or that I don't ride much....
While not a really hard core road warrior, 15 miles is where I'm feeling it in the hands/arms/butt - which was not the case with with my many previous conventional true road bikes. Been "real" biking since college over 50 years ago. But at age 71, a bit of assist from the technology is in order. And the bike in question is a different "beast" than before, hence the questions of how to better tame it.

tcb66

Hello,
I have a XM700+ on 29er tires, with front RockShox (50mm travel I think) and Thudbuster seatpost . It fits my needs so that's how I set it up. You are using it and if it is comfortable for you, you will ride it more which is ultimately what you want, so I say do what you like . Please let me know if you have any questions on my setup. By the way I have the same fitment issue with mine -- riding is fine but the family jewels would contact the frame when straddling the beast. I am happy with her though.

sande005

Thanks tcb66! Older threads on other forums noted a switch to the RockShox Paragon Gold RL. Sounds like it may be an easy swap. Any issues getting yours installed? I think fenders and brakes will be little issue. Maybe the front head light.... Local shop yesterday really, really did not want to do it. Claimed that it would make the front end higher, as well as extend the wheel base "Like turning your bike into a motorcycle chopper".
I'd really like to do the seatpost mod also, but just not enough clearance for it. To stop sliding forward all the time, I had to get a post that moved the seat back a fair bit, which was counter intuitive and required a shorter stem, but worked.

tcb66

Hello sande005, yes the addition of the RockShox does lift the front end a bit. Since you have issues with frame size (same as me) this may be the biggest impact for you. Due to the longer length of the RockShox the wheelbase got extended also but it was minor and I did not notice any difference in my daily riding. Unfortunately I did not do any measurement so I don't have any comparison data for you on the height & wheelbase issues. The bike definitely does NOT look look like a "chopper" -- it looks like a typical hardtail with front suspension . As soon as I can figure out how to add pictures to the thread I can share what my XM700+ looks like with you. I was able to move the front headlight over to the RockShox also. No problem with the disc brakes setup either. Due to the increased tire size (29er on mine) I removed the fenders. I increased the tire size for increase comfort but with the installation of the RockShox and Thudbuster, I will most likely go back to the 700c tires. No mechanical or hardware issue with the RockShox installation.

sande005

Good to hear!
If you can, I'd appreciate you letting me know how long the newer fork is, and I can compare to my stock one to see how much more lift it might give. I have a "rewards" certificate at another local bike shop that would give me a healthy discount on the Rockshoxs. Sine the place it is at isn't keen on selling me one, I will wait till I get the bike back and have the second place do the work, if it looks like it will fit.

tcb66

The RockShox model I installed is Gold RL/700c with 65mm travel. The unsprung dimension from the bottom of the headtube to the front wheel skewer centerline is approximately 18.75 inch. This is the unsprung length as when you/I get on the bike, your/my added weight will drop it down a bit.

sande005

Thank you! Same suspension I was looking at. Now to get the bike back and measure!

tcb66

No worries .. glad I can provide some info to help with your effort. If you search the EBR (Electric Bicycle Review) site forum there are some pictures of a XM700+ with the exact RockShox unit installed, and some pictures showing the headlight installed also. That is what mine looks like except with wider tires. I am a newbie here so the forum admins have not allowed me to post links to other web sites yet else I would have provided the link for you.

sande005

I seem to have undertaken a science experiment! In evaluating, it looks like the Rocksox will raise the front by about 3/4 inch. After putting a board under the front of my bike on a trainer, and doing a couple of hours, did not notice any difference in my riding, so it looks like that won't be any issue. Went to a couple of other local shops, and was fairly surprised that none of them were very keen on doing the swap. To be fair, the bike was not with me, nor did they have the fork to look at, so it likely was the "unknowns" to them. The big issue apparently is availability - they all noted that currently it will be a guess as to whether they can actually get a fork from their suppliers. And I really wanted one in matte black, rather than gloss, which just greatly ups the odds of not finding one.
So plan "B" - got a Shockstop stem to try out. Unfortunately it was a total bust. Handlebars sweep back to be in line with the headset center. That means no mechanical leverage to make the suspension work. The stem works best with the rider weight out in front, like riding on the hoods with drop bars. So the stem got returned.....

Currently waiting to receive a Kinekt seatpost. The bad is that my Brooks B17 is currently on a post with 25mm setback, and moved as far back as it can get. That's been good for over 1,000 miles. The Kinekt only goes back 12mm. So not looking good. Also ordered a Selle Anatomica saddle, due to their being advertised as having the longest rails. But they could not tell me at all how much more setback I could see over the Brooks. I find odd that they don't know, since they advertise so heavily how much better theirs is in every other respect. But we'll see - looks like delivery is 1 to 2 weeks out.

sande005

Yeah, yeah...an e-bike on a trainer! Doesn't sound right!

tcb66

I also had mixed result with the stem suspension option (felt 'bouncy" and 'floaty') and also returned it. Hopefully you will be able to locate a shop that is willing to help you. Clearly it is possible, its whether the shop has personnel willing to help you out or not . Coincidentally enough I also have a B17 and a Selle Anatomica X1. I don't know what model Selle you purchased and since you already placed your order it may not help much but I can try to take some measurements for you if you think that would be helpful. The difficulty lies in the rail vs seat geometry, and a dimension on one seat/rail does not necessarily translate to the same thing on the other seat.

PS I think it is pretty smart of you to be able to simulate the desired setup to test for yourself .. ingenuity at work .

sande005

I'm not bad as far as dealing with tools, so may just take the chance, order the fork, and install it myself. Cutting the stem and installing the "star fangled" nut may prove to be interesting. But all of that will wait a bit - I know all to well how far off the beam one can get by many changes at once. At least the weather is finally changing. Wind chill two days ago was -6 F, with 3 feet of snow on the ground. Big warm up and melting this week, so I finally may be able to get it out on the road about the time the saddle arrives.....probably will spend the time not only just putting in the miles on the trainer, but playing with what I have to see how my balance point on the current saddle can be improved. Then I'll have a frame of reference to start the process all over with the new bits n pieces.
I'm where the "30 days of biking" challenge was originated, and my daughter is at the top of the food chain for bike/ped planning in a major east coast city, so there is a bit of pressure to get out and ride....

tcb66

I am in California / Orange County so there is no weather challenge here, just the "lazy get off your a$$" challenge . Seems like you have a good handle on things so just keep moving forward. I will reach out to my bike shop and see if I can get any info on the shock swap that I can share. Unfortunately this was done a while ago and I have moved since so I do not know if the bike tech who helped me out is still there or not. I will post back if I can dig up anything. You know it can be done, its just a matter of putting all the pieces together and the back-n-forth to the bike shop for parts

sande005

Saddle and Kinekt seatpost arrived within 15 min. of each other. But, after LOTS of trying, the Selle Anatomica and Kinekt are unfortunately going back. Currently riding with a Brooks B17, with a 25mm setback post. Probably could use slightly more setback, but with 1000 miles of this setup, no seat problems, although I do get numb hands. With the Brooks and the Kinekt, lost over half of the setback, and could not cure the issue of lots of forward slipping, plus markedly greater weight on the hands. But I expected that. With the Selle, I could get the setback (barely) but due to the more pronounced "hammock" needed lots of nose up to stop sliding (~11 degrees). That, with the slightly longer saddle length, interfered with things that should never be interfered with. The Kinekt seemed great, but not willing to trade one pain for another more pronounced one....
Story of my life - whether pants, shoes, guitars or bikes - I seem to have "odd" dimensions that make fit more challenging than the "averages" most things are made for. At least I'll be able to redirect the refunds to a front suspension.....

tcb66

I know how you feel on the fit challenge. My upper torso is longer / leg length shorter ratio for my height so I have some fitment issues also. It doesn't help that the XM700+ comes in limited frame sizes. Regarding the Selle "hammock" I had to tighten the tension nut a bit but I was able to address that; unfortunately your particular configuration was not able to accommodate the longer saddle length issue.
I think you are on the right path, focus on one change at a time, with the fork upgrade. I have had no problem with mine, and the ride is better as well as improvement in the handling compare to the stock setup. I am no expert but I would think the better front suspension may even help your numb hands a little. I am a tinker by nature so I am always messing around with my setup (sometimes making it worse haha) but every change is a reason for me to get on the saddle and see what I did so what ever it is that gets you on your saddle to ride is positive . I hope you are able to be ready in time for your 30/30 challenge.

2old

A good front fork can do wonders. I rode rigid for a lot longer than was prudent, and even had a rigid fork on my bike with rear suspension for awhile. With a good fork my aching shoulders finally began to heal and life improved considerably. Good luck. As an aside, my wife purchased a Manitou Markhor fork, and I've been very happy with it.

sande005

A mid summer update -
I might just have gotten it dialed in!
Took the plunge and swapped in the Rockshox fork. The ride was an extremely noticeable change for the better. Should have done it a few years ago when I came across the first posts from others doing the same.
But then...a slight bit of knee pain from longer rides, and hands going numb.....led me to question other parts of my current setup, even though it was to-date the best I had previously achieved.
On a whim, paid the $35 to MyVeloFit for their on-line assessment. Taking short videos of pedaling the bike, and their "AI" does it's measuring magic, with recommendations as to what to change. In my case, raising the seat 5mm. Knee pain went away.
Just 'cause I paid the $ and wanted to play with the software, I put the original post back on (unknown setback, but far less than the 25mm the one I had been using), and went through a few versions of the upload video/change something/upload again process. This time it had me move the seat up 1 cm, and forward 5 mm. So, two different "fits", one with the seat far back, one not.
That also felt great on longer rides, although my reach was noticeably less - but still within their defined "good" range, so no bar/stem changes.
Hmmmm...with the setback issue eliminated, maybe the Kinekt was worth another look. Amazon Prime Day netted me a $200 credit to use, so....
Installed the Kinekt, and went through the fit process again to get height and fore/aft.
Another big WOW set of rides - the beast no longer pounded me at all! No knee issues. Hand numbness is still a bit, but far, far less than before. Riding one handed for a few minutes, every hour, is about all that is needed to resolve.
Still to do: Getting a bit of "pogo stick" bounce when pedaling fast with no load, so have to dial in the Kinekt preload more. (Have verified that there is no hip rock when pedaling).
And maybe buy a pair of clown shoes, as at the current "feels great" seat height, it is dicey whether I can touch my toe to the ground when stopped and seated. Bikes bottom bracket is significantly higher than the other three bikes of similar size in my garage....
Or I practice sliding off the front of the saddle without contacting the top bar when stopping...

MyVeloFit, for me, gave far better results than the casual "fits" previously given me at two LBS's (not full on paid "professional" sessions). A real fit likely is much better, but for a casual rider the system seems to be a step up or good place to start.

palincss

I wouldn't put a lot of money into upgrading a frame that doesn't fit you to begin with.

sande005

It is what it is - the only other frame size was definitely too small in many other aspects, and got a smoking deal - very little at the time offered similar from other manufacturers (very pre-pandemic), and would have been $1,000's more.
So at the time, it was literally that, or nothing. And two LBS's both advising that while I had a bit of a reservation, the frame size was the best available for me....
Potentially better choices now (if supply chains permit), but there still is that multiple $1,000's more hurdle that is even higher....