Jipe

It depends for what.

For the front block adapter, there is a version for Birdy 2 but not for Birdy 1 I think ?

For the wheel size swap, its only possible with disc brakes. Only part of the Birdy 2 have disc brakes, no disc brakes on the Birdy 1.

For the folded size, the Birdy 3 is slightly smaller than the previous one and the previous ones had some problem of chain derailling when unfolding that were solved with the new chain tensionner that appeared on the Birdy 3.

For the off road use, the rear swing arm of the Birdy 2 was less strong than the one of the Birdy 3.

50mm wide tires ans suspension exists on all Birdy since Birdy 1. There are front low rider and rear racks for all Birdy since Birdy 1
.
For the efficiency, Birdy with Shimano IGH should be avoided, these IGH are less efficient and their gear inch range is too limited.

The efficiency of the SRAM dual drive and the equivalent Sturmey Archer hub is also lower, so Birdy with SRAM dual drive ans SA hub should be avoided too.

So, remain Birdy with a derailleur system (there were several model names for it, its currently called Birdy Touring by Riese & Müller, but previous Birdy Touring had a SRAM dual drive and current Pacific Cycle Birdy Touring has a SA hub) and the Birdy Rohloff.

namor

how difficult and costly is it to convert a 10 speed derailleur version of the helix to 11 gears?

rhenning

Why bother for one gear. I wouldn't. Roger

Pinigis 

What are you trying to gain by going from 10 to 11?

Jipe

The first thing to check is if the Formula RXC-142 rear hub mounted by Helix accept a 11s cassette. If not, you need to change the rear hub (what means new spokes and re-lace the wheel)

Then, indeed, it depend of what you want to archive by going to 11s.

If you want to have the same wide range as on the Helix ultralight (9-34t cassette), then you definitely need another rear hub with XD-XDR body and the hub and cassette are relatively expensive (the hubsmith hub mounted by Helix is one of the cheapest, hih=ger quality hus like from Hope or Tune are more expensive).

You of course need to change the shifter and rear derailleur. There are many options for 11s shifter and rear derailleur with big price differences.

wesgreen

If you ever get to watch the movie "Spinal Tap", you'll understand!

Pinigis 

anga

10-speed derailleur to 11-speed derailleur or 11-speed Alfine?

namor

thanks for your help!

i would like the 11-speed derailleur with the smaller gears (9-34, or 9-36), as i would love to use the bike also for tours with luggage.

if somebody is about to sell a 10-speed derailleur helix or a crowdfunding slot, i would be very interested ;o)

Jipe

9-34 or 9-36 vs. the standard Helix 10s 11-36 gives longer gear inches unless a smaller chainring is used.

To mount a cassette with a smallest 9t cog, a SRAM XD or XDR freewheel is needed, what means that the original hub must be changed.

Its maybe cheaper to buy a Helix Ultralight which is factory equipped with 11s and a 9-34 cassette than upgrading a standard Helix?

namor

ok. thanks! so it might be easier to change the chainring? and how difficult is it, to change to a 11-40 cassette?

Jipe

To have a bigger greatest cog than 36t, you need to change the derailleur since the Shimano SLX RD-M675 goes to 36t max. The shifter should also be changed for 11s.

Now, I do not know if the frame of Helix is compatible with a bigger cassette with 40t or 42t greatest cog?

The use of a 9-34t cassette on the Helix Ultralight can be motivated by weight reduction or because the Helix frame isn't compatible with a cassette with a greatest cog greater than 36t?

jur

Loooong time since I left this forum... I have since moved to a different state to a small town and am not riding much any more, to my own detriment. My Ti Swift has a crack in the seatpost where I designed in a bottle cage nut. I have plans to shore it up with a tube inside. Or maybe I will try to source a new one. The guarantee (5Y) has come and gone.

How's the KS deliveries tracking? Is that phase over? If no,t how far through are they, now so many years later?

In hindsight, it was the right decision for me to get off this particular bandwagon.

tcs

Jur!

Think of you every now and then. Hope all is well!

Jonesandrew

Welcome back Jur. I had a mail from John at Helix at the end of last year where he mentioned there were " over 1000 bikes out there" at that time. Based on backer reports I estimated there were about 750 KS bikes and about 300 retail bikes delivered. My gut feeling is that they may have delivered another 50 KS bikes and a similar number of retail bikes since the end of last year and now. As usual, we have no way to confirm anything, that's just my guess. If I recall correctly, KS plus pre-ordered bikes totalled 1800, so they may have another 700 to build to satisfy the requirement. I still don't have my KS bike, but I was able to buy a slightly used 10 speed derailleur model from a backer who no longer had need of it.

mlau

How did you like it?

Jonesandrew

I like it enough to consider using it in place of the Cannondale Topstone gravel bike which have been using for the last 2 years to commute to work. It's not as stiff as the gravel bike of course, but I find it more comfortable on a cycle path which has been damaged by tree roots pushing up from below. The seat post flexes quite a lot and behaves in a similar way to the long travel Cane Creek Thudbusters which I have on my older folding bikes and it's this feature which provides the extra comfort. The steering has a similar level of twitchyness to my 20" wheel folders. That was a surprise, I expected it t be more stable due to the larger 24" wheels, but it just means I have to be a little bit careful when riding one handed just as I've learned to do on my 20" wheeled bikes. I'd like it better if it could accommodate a wider range of gears. I like to have a range of 500% on all my bikes. The standard Helix 10spd derailleur only has 328%. I've managed to squeeze a wider range cassette on which yields 433% but to make it work I've had to add a wear strip to the underside of the swing arm to stop the chain sawing through it when running in 1st gear. I like that there's no paint finish to get scratched or worn away. I also very much like that it doesn't have the "clown bike" appearance of my previous folders. I like that I can still fit it into the same travel case I've previously used although I do have to deflate the tyres to make it fit, which is a bit inconvenient. I don't like that the fold is less slick and takes longer than my Brompton style folders. This is mainly due to the fork and steering lock mechanisms being much slower to operate. The wheel to wheel connector can also be fiddly to engage which can be annoying at times.

namor

dear andrew. good that you think the helix can replace a gravel bike. what wider range cassette did you manage to squeeze in? i'm looking for a way to do that (while waiting to find a used helix). what do you think of the durability of the bike?

Helangst

WOW. Seven years later, no bike and the below update from Peter. I would bet that we will never get a refund. I’m bike number 811 or something. Wondering how people feel about all this? I am not going to pay any more money because going by the track record I have no confidence that even after paying more I will receive the bike and even less confidence that I will receive a refund. Technically he has broken Kickstarter rules but any complaint about it probably won’t be taken seriously until say 10 years from now if the refunds still have not been issued. And who knows if Kickstarter and Peter will be even around then? Total scam.

“Dear Helix Family,

I sincerely apologize for the long delay for this update. It has been an unprecedented time with all that is going on in the world.

There is much to update you on, but the only thing that I want to focus on in this update is your bikes.

We had started off the year with high hopes of things returning to normal and we were looking forward to resuming our pre-pandemic schedule and picking up where we left off with our goals for Helix.

As the year began however, another world crisis is upon us, this time rebooting the supply chain problems, increasing the costs of materials and further restricting the flow of business. Specifically, bicycle supply chain timelines were expected to improve this year but are now the same or worse than during the pandemic. With the majority of our parts coming from Taiwan there is further uncertainty for the future.

Also, since the year started, titanium prices have gone up 20% and are expected to increase further. Lead times for titanium have also nearly doubled. On top of this, getting the parts and materials out of their country of origin is increasingly more difficult as there are ripple effects throughout the shipping industry from the various crises of the moment. For example, the current lockdown in Shanghai has significantly affected logistics again. In the background is the ever increasing inflation that adds an additional component to all of this.

Despite the above we have mostly persevered and have not only continued to keep our doors open, but we have managed to get ahead of some of the supply chain issues and ordered enough components to carry us. We also made significant manufacturing improvements that allowed us to decrease the retail price of Helix when the vast majority of bicycle manufacturers were increasing their prices. This was only possible by putting a priority on retail bike orders. The alternative would have been bankruptcy.

However, with no end in sight to the changing global trade landscape we have realized that the possibility of delivering Kickstarter and pre-order bikes in a reasonable amount of time is unlikely.

I apologize for the shock of this announcement but I feel that this is the best path moving forward.

If you choose to upgrade to expedited delivery, your bike will now come with these upgrades:

• titanium dropouts ($200 upgrade)
• Tubolito inner tubes ($80 upgrade)
• Ti rail saddle ($110 upgrade)

The above reduces the weight of Helix by approximately 1lb.

Unfortunately, if you are looking to upgrade to the Ultralight spec, the supply of Ultralight parts this year will be extremely low. We expect to have more in stock by spring of 2023 but I don’t recommend that anybody wait. Get your bikes now and start enjoying them.

Please email us directly if you decide to proceed. We will then send you an invoice for payment with a guaranteed delivery date.

As a reminder, the price on Kickstarter in USD was $1200, $1300 and $1600 and for pre-orders $300 more than this.

We will start delivering these bikes in July and will be working to complete all deliveries by September on a first come first serve basis.

If we do not hear from you by July you will automatically go in to a refund queue. The process of receiving a refund is a delicate one as we have to balance the finances of keeping the lights on at the factory and ensuring that everyone still receives their bikes. We expect to complete all refunds within 6-12 months.

The method of refund, for pre-order customers will be back to the original card, if possible (even if the card is expired the refund will come through to the existing card), and for Kickstarter either by cheque or wire transfer.

Again, this was a very difficult decision to come to, but as I was watching retail bikes leave the factory it was bitter sweet knowing that you are all still waiting. I hope this news will bring some excitement as the riding season is now here.

Accessories production is about to begin. It will not be in time to deliver with your bikes but there will be everything you have hoped for by the end of the year. Please visit our website for a preview of our accessories and our next update will show the travel case/trailer, rear rack and mudguards.

Best regards,

Peter & The Helix Team“

Helangst

WOW. Seven years later, no bike and the below update from Peter. I would bet that we will never get a refund. I’m bike number 811 or something. Wondering how people feel about all this? I am not going to pay any more money because going by the track record I have no confidence that even after paying more I will receive the bike and even less confidence that I will receive a refund. Technically he has broken Kickstarter rules but any complaint about it probably won’t be taken seriously until say 10 years from now if the refunds still have not been issued. And who knows if Kickstarter and Peter will be even around then? Ultimately we’ve been scammed and he’s only able to do it if we let him.

I have been quiet until now, giving him the benefit of the doubt. But it is now clear that it’s a scam because, if he has $2.5M CDN lying around with which to provide refunds, as that was the amount we paid him, then why is he not just putting that money towards honouring the contract and sending us the bikes? And if money really is as tight as he implies, then talk of refunds is nothing more than an empty promise.

Anyone interested in a class action lawsuit?

Helangst

Hmm I just checked and I’m bike#865.
Also just to add to the point I was making before, if he has the $2ish million it will take to issue refunds to the backers within the next 12 months, then he has the money to follow through on the original commitment. It just doesn’t add up.

joey buzzard

I dunno. You made a decision to invest your money into this Kickstarter. You must've known it was a very ambitious product from the get go? That even without the pandemic and now WW3 looming on the horrizon that there'd have been challenges? By ambitious I mean that Peter not only had a very innovative design (he practically reinvented the folding bicycle) but that he also aimed to reinvent the production process and do it all himself in Canada. It was all clearly spelled out by him. The only fault I think he has is that he severely underestimated the time it would take to develop the product and scale up the production volume. It's totally undeniable that global supply chains are under severe strain at the moment. Why choose now of all moments to get litigious about your Kickstarter? He's clearly trying to keep production going, so that he can keep on trucking. Bikes are rolling off his production line. He hasn't abandoned you. True, you've already waited years and years, but it just seems to me that's what you sign up for when you invest in something that's totally never been done before. I didn't invest in this myself. If I were 10x richer than I am I might've considered it, but it looked risky and I like simple things (I'm bit of a Xootr Swift kinda guy myself).​​​​​​

Normally I read this thread like I'm eating popcorn in the cinema and I don't comment because I have no skin in this game for all the reasons I spelled out above. But clearly you had the money to make the investment into a complex product which at the time was more theoretical than actual. If you had simply wanted a nice bike there were plenty of other off the peg options that you could've ordered and had years ago, but you chose something else. What does a lawsuit achieve? Zilch to nada in my opinion. It'd just be a big poo that would drag on for more years and make it very difficult for this project to continue and would very probably result in the bankruptcy of one of North America's most innovative bicycle designers. As far as I can see there's now a viable product that's actually being churned out in some numbers. He just needs cashflow to keep producing, so he has to focus on retail first to meet his other obligations. Frustrating though it is to still be waiting, I reckon that now is exactly the wrong time to get impatient.

Western countries need to innovate so that there's more industrial production at home. Why kick the stool out from underneath someone who's making that happen just as they're finally getting there?
​​​​​Those are my thoughts anyway.

namor

would it be legally viable to sell the kickstart slot to somebody who would be willing to pay immediately and then would upgrade to one of the new proposed options?

Jipe

I have also followed the project since the start of the Kickstarter campaign and I have to disagree with you on several points.

It was never said that its a very ambitious risky project and during the campaign the detail and complexity of the Helix construction were unknown.to the backers.

It was never considered during the campaign that Helix would make his own factory to build the frame, but that the frame would be built by an existing company specialized in titanium construction. Peter moved to its own manufacturing only after have tried (during years) to find a solution to have the frame built at a price compatible with the selling price of Helix (he even considered to have a frame with glued tubes instead of soldered). This search of a subcontractor to build the frame was a big part of the delay.

Then most of the claims of the Kickstarter campaign were erroneous (if not lies) aimed at attracting people with little knowledge of folding bikes: the bike weight much more that promised, the bigger wheels with relatively narrow tires aren't an advantage wrt. 20" wheels with wide tires, Helix isn't safer that any other folding bike, titanium isn't a wonder material as claimed and the whole project demonstrate that its impossible to build a titanium frame bike for announced low price as claimed.

This last point is actually the whole problem: Helix loose money on every backers bike delivered and the business model based on a low price isn't valid for a price about twice as high, at 1200-1600$ with a titanium frame, it can be sold in big quantities, at 2690$, it become a niche product..
So Helix must sell many bikes ate the current price to have money to be able to build and deliver bikes to the backers. Unfortunately, the last batch of Helix wasn't sold as fast and easily as the previous ones and the war in Ukraine increased the prices of all material and components with as consequence a margin reduction on the sold and not yet delivered Helix (if any margin remain).

Jonesandrew

Hi Namor, I'm using an 11 speed e-thirteen 9-39 cassette (433% range). With a 42T chainring the chain interferes with the swing arm when running in 1st gear. With a 38T chainring the chain just skims past the swing arm in 1st but you'll still need to add some protection to avoid damage to the arm. The previous owner of my bike covered about 200 miles and I estimate I might have added another 300. Up to now I can see no durability issues whatsoever. In my opinion the durability of the frame and locking mechanisms will compete very well with those of Brompton and other premium folders. Good luck finding a used bike.