Miyata 210 frame same as 610? And what to expect.
#1
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Miyata 210 frame same as 610? And what to expect.
I'm picking up a single owner, apparent garage queen 1986 210 today as my next project. It won't need much but I'll be swapping a few things and kitting it out for a touring partner to make use of.
Was the 210 frame of this era the same as the 610? My assumption is the materials and geometry are the same, just that the 210 is lacking the extra bottle cage mount.
I see "sport tourer" thrown around a lot for these frames as the chain stays are a bit shorter than typical tourers of the time, but they are still long. Does anybody have an idea of what one could expect with the ride quality when loaded? Front load handling?
Thanks!
Was the 210 frame of this era the same as the 610? My assumption is the materials and geometry are the same, just that the 210 is lacking the extra bottle cage mount.
I see "sport tourer" thrown around a lot for these frames as the chain stays are a bit shorter than typical tourers of the time, but they are still long. Does anybody have an idea of what one could expect with the ride quality when loaded? Front load handling?
Thanks!
#2
FWIW, the catalog does say that the 610 uses 700c wheels while the 210 uses 27"
But enough minutiae! Let's see the bike!
But enough minutiae! Let's see the bike!
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#3
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Not in my hands yet but should be by this evening! Good call on the wheel differences, I've got a nice set of 700s I'll probably drop in, seems the brakes should reach. Also likely means the two frames are different geometry and perhaps the 610 and the 1000 are the ones that are the same (minus the forks).
Last edited by polymorphself; 01-19-23 at 02:19 PM.
#4
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I had one for a summer or two - I think it was an '84. I never loaded it for touring, but between water bottles, front and rear rack and bags. had to have added 20 or so lbs to it. It handled pretty much the same with those things or without. It was very stable. This meant it was not nimble. I've since gotten an '81 1000 for my wife. THAT handles more responsively when empty than the 210 did. Haven't loaded the 1000 up to give a report on it.
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The 210 got cantilever brakes later than the others, I believe. Also, the 210 may have never gotten mid-blade fork eyelets for low-rider front racks. These features, which are in my mind essential, trickled down the Miyata product line from the 1000 to the 610 to the 210, sometime in the '80s IIRC.
I don't know about tubing, but I would welcome any knowledge!
I also think the Miyata tourers are pretty much the same as (and I believe were made in the same factory as) the Univega tourers (e.g. Specialissima, Gran Turismo). The Univegas are usually sold at a lower price point because fewer people know what they've got.
I don't know about tubing, but I would welcome any knowledge!
I also think the Miyata tourers are pretty much the same as (and I believe were made in the same factory as) the Univega tourers (e.g. Specialissima, Gran Turismo). The Univegas are usually sold at a lower price point because fewer people know what they've got.
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#6
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The 210 got cantilever brakes later than the others, I believe. Also, the 210 may have never gotten mid-blade fork eyelets for low-rider front racks. These features, which are in my mind essential, trickled down the Miyata product line from the 1000 to the 610 to the 210, sometime in the '80s IIRC.
I don't know about tubing, but I would welcome any knowledge!
I also think the Miyata tourers are pretty much the same as (and I believe were made in the same factory as) the Univega tourers (e.g. Specialissima, Gran Turismo). The Univegas are usually sold at a lower price point because fewer people know what they've got.
I don't know about tubing, but I would welcome any knowledge!
I also think the Miyata tourers are pretty much the same as (and I believe were made in the same factory as) the Univega tourers (e.g. Specialissima, Gran Turismo). The Univegas are usually sold at a lower price point because fewer people know what they've got.
#7
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Seems the 210 had Dia-compe 960 brakes, Not sure, but they may not work too well when converting to 700c.
Last edited by John Nolan; 01-20-23 at 04:23 AM.
#8
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Its true the 210 never received mid fork mounts, although the 610 also didn't have them until the end of the 80s, and then lost them again in the early 90s, so not much difference there. And correct, this model has cantis, I believe the 210s received them around 1984, and certainly by 1985. So no difference there either. A campeur-type rack should do find if front panniers are needed, though I'm still curious about front loading experiences.
Miyata must have really been feeling the heat on the yen price by then and going cheap on seemingly minor details to compensate.
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#9
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#10
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The single eyelets is especially surprising there.
#11
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I guess I am the only owner of a 210 here, in fact I have two of them. The frame isn't the same as a 610, the 1000 and 610 share the splined quad butted tubing with the main difference being the gruppo used and maybe a bottle cage. The 210 has a triple butted frame the fork doesn't have mid level braze ons and would need canti rack. I run my 210 with a hanging handlebar bag and use the rear rack and large saddle bag. I don't ride the bike loaded for tour but around 40lb. load with one mid-size pannier. I use it for gravel/dirt rail trail/ two track and road and it handles dodging cobbles and branches with quickness but it is stable ride and I can century on it and feel ok the next day. As the french say "it carries a tired rider well". I run the bike stock with the original wheels and I have Kenda K 161 27"x1" 3/8" tires and fenders, I love all the Miyata touring bikes I have a mint 615 GT and restored two 1000s you can't beat them.
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#12
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I recall the 210 and 1000 having slacker (72 versus 73 degrees) frame angles than the steeper Six-Ten. I have both 210 and 610 in the same ~58cm frame size and can feel the difference, both using 10cm stems and 27" wheels.
The 210 feels smaller because the top tube and head tube are moved rearward by .9cm relative to the BB (due to the shallower ST angle).
The 210 feels smaller because the top tube and head tube are moved rearward by .9cm relative to the BB (due to the shallower ST angle).
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#13
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I bought a stripped down 610 a couple years ago from a member here, not sure of the year. It has 3 bottle cage mounts and mid fork mounts and is built for 27" wheels. This past year I was fortunate enough to find a 210 mixte complete. I intend to transfer everything to the 610 . The colors are similar and the decals and frame tubing are exactly the same. Based on the clamp on DT shifters that were left on the 610, the component package was also the same.
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#14
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Thanks for the input everyone, any additional commentary is welcome. Im very excited to dig into this. Its in great shape but will get the typical overhaul, clean/polish, burgundy newbaums, black b17 and either a canti rack or campeur type rack up front.
Its really strange how glancing at this bicycle one simultaneously notices both the budget choices and the high quality here. I cant think of another bike that is so very much both.
Some quick pics as found:
Its really strange how glancing at this bicycle one simultaneously notices both the budget choices and the high quality here. I cant think of another bike that is so very much both.
Some quick pics as found:
Last edited by polymorphself; 01-20-23 at 11:52 PM.
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#15
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Wow. That is shockingly clean. Great find. I had an 83 610 that I loved, I only sold it because I found an 82 710 that I converted to 650b that I loved more. For me, these 80’s Miyatas are just about perfect. Yours looks like a real winner.
#16
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Seat post clamp crack or just paint? How do we feel about this?
#17
#18
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I do have a relationship with a local frame-builder. Worst case I imagine this would be a quick job for him.
#19
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My bet is crack in the paint from tightening over the years. I worked on a 210 mixte for a niece once and was impressed how nice it was made. Nice bike you have there.
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#21
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Here's hoping! And yep, as we always say all over these forums, Miyatas punched above their weight, especially from 1984-1989!
#22
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#23
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Almost certainly not a crack, though I would check that the ear isn't bent in far enough to create any sharp seatpost scraper feature on the inside of the tube.
For tilted-inward lug ears, I insert the post about 1" in and then lean rearward to restore the opening and to perhaps(?) bring the ears back to where there is better parallelism at the bolt heads.
Pretty normal to see on steel frames, I would not start scraping paint, it will come off in big flakes making a cosmetic blemish on your nice frame.
For tilted-inward lug ears, I insert the post about 1" in and then lean rearward to restore the opening and to perhaps(?) bring the ears back to where there is better parallelism at the bolt heads.
Pretty normal to see on steel frames, I would not start scraping paint, it will come off in big flakes making a cosmetic blemish on your nice frame.
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Are those Shimano ratcheting shifters? I have several Suntour ones but have never tried the Shimano. Wasn’t there also a nicely equipped Miyata 215GT in the eighties? It seems like I saw one posted, or saw in the catalogs and was impressed with it also.
#25
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Almost certainly not a crack, though I would check that the ear isn't bent in far enough to create any sharp seatpost scraper feature on the inside of the tube.
For tilted-inward lug ears, I insert the post about 1" in and then lean rearward to restore the opening and to perhaps(?) bring the ears back to where there is better parallelism at the bolt heads.
Pretty normal to see on steel frames, I would not start scraping paint, it will come off in big flakes making a cosmetic blemish on your nice frame.
For tilted-inward lug ears, I insert the post about 1" in and then lean rearward to restore the opening and to perhaps(?) bring the ears back to where there is better parallelism at the bolt heads.
Pretty normal to see on steel frames, I would not start scraping paint, it will come off in big flakes making a cosmetic blemish on your nice frame.