JWK

I have a Trek 920 I got last year, used of course (discontinued since 2020, I think) but never ridden more than around the block. I bought it thinking it would replace my Surly disc trucker. I rode it all last year stock except for changing the tires to GK 38mm slicks. After riding it exclusively for a season, I have reached two conclusions.
1. I am ambivalent about hydraulic brakes.
2. I really dislike using a 42/28 double and don't really like the Sram double tap shifters. I want a triple.

I was all set to get a Deore FC-T6010, but they are not available at all in the US and they have been discontinued. That leaves me with the Alivio FC-T4060 (9 speed) or an older XT, SLX, LX, etc. I will be using bar end shifters (I have them) and a 10 speed drivetrain. I will be upgrading to the Gevenalle if everything works out, but I've been using bar end for years, so that will be fine in the interim. In any case, friction for the front derailleur. No need to match up groupsets.

Hunting for an older crankset will not be quick and easy. I really want 170mm crank arms. That eliminates most used cranksets right off. I also want to be able to change chainrings, so I need aftermarket rings to fit.

The Alivio has stamped steel chainrings, but hollowtech with the outboard bearing BB. I don't want to mess with square taper anymore, not that I think there's anything wrong with them. I've seen photos of the chainrings and it looks like they have a really weird attachment profile. I'm concerned standard aftermarket 104bcd rings will not fit on the crankset. I will be using this like I did my Surly. It will be my "everything" bike. Right now the gearing is just OK for general riding, but is a bit too high IMOfor any loaded touring. So I want to be able to throw on a set of 44/32/22 when it's that time.

I don't think the Sram rear derailleur can handle a triple. Otherwise, I might just get the Alivio, slap a bar end on the left for the front and use the Sram shifters to try things out. Given that, I would want to be pretty sure the crankset will be what I want. Too much time and money for a cheap crankset to not work out. I can live with the stock drivetrain if being patient hunting down older stuff is worth it.

So that's it. I'm looking for info on the 9 speed Alivio crankset and how it compares to older Deore 9 and 10 speed stuff that might be considered better quality. Any informed advice will be greatly appreciated.

tyrion

I see one (literally "only one left") on Amazon with 170mm arms:

https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Deore...3EQ&th=1&psc=1

Edit: that might be 175mm - the description says 175mm, then later says 170mm. In any case, keep an eye and ebay and something might show up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26612622383...Bk9SR5bRt57-YQ

ignant666

Consider this: https://newalbioncycles.com/xdt-crankset

Tourist in MSN

If you decide that square taper is acceptable, there are options out there.

I have square taper on most of my bikes, happy with it.

JWK

I saw that on Amazon. After reading reviews and seeing other cranksets, I think that really is a 175mm. Plus, I don't trust Amazon so much anymore to describe anything accurately at all. Many bad experiences. That second one you listed off the bay is one I've also noticed. I didn't pay much attention due to the title, but I took a closer look and see that it is an FC-T551. Two aluminum outer rings with a 24t steel. I don't know where that crankset fell in the Shimano hierarchy. I remember the FC-M590 (9 speed) from about 8 - 10 years ago, I think. I'll look into this. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention.

Not really looking for square taper right now, but thanks. I wasn't aware of this model. Is it even available? But if I was going to buy a 110/74 crank new, I'd probably go with the Velo Orange. However, since I'm really focusing on what I *really* want for the long term, I would stick with the 104/64 cranks to be able to get that 22t ring on the bottom.

Yes, it might come to that. However, as I stated above, I'm really looking to stick with the 104/64 cranks. There are some very fine older mtb cranks with square taper out there, but they all seem to be 110/74. It seems that once they went to the 104/64 format, the nicer ones were made for outboard bearing BBs. Maybe I'm wrong. Just my perception so far. Do you have suggestions for cranksets that are 104/64? If I had your bikes, I'd be satisfied with square taper, also. I almost bought that Lynskey, but by the time I decided to pull the trigger, it was gone. Snooze and lose.

Tourist in MSN

I do not own any 104/64. And I would not know which models to look for.

I have three bikes with Campy square taper triples, but I would not suggest them as they now cost a fortune if you can find a nice one. They are 135/74, so the bigger rings are rare and hard to find at a good price.

My Rohloff bike, I bought a Vuelta double off of Amazon nine years ago. Bought a 110mm chainring elsewhere to use on that bike. Very happy with it. I think I paid $30 for the crankset at the time.

If I was looking today for a new crank, I would buy a triple that is square taper, 110/74. But my granny gear would be 24 and you said you want a 22 so the 74mm BCD would not work for you.

I am running eight speed cassettes for touring and on my rando bike. My road bike is my only bike with more than eight, it has a 10 speed Campy drivetrain and a compact double.

pigmonkey

If you do decide to settle for a 110mm square taper, I can recommend the New Albion XDT triple linked by ignant666 above. I've been running it on my 10-speed everything-bike for 3 years now (with Gevenalle shifters for the past 1.5 years or so). Apparently they're made with Sugino's molds in Sugino's factory, so these are basically just rebranded Sugino XD2s.

I bought mine from Rivendell, who looks to still have them in stock. I also see them in stock at Universal Cycles. I'm tempted to pick up a spare set myself...

irc

Not cheap at £129 but SJS Cycles, a well known UK touring specialist, ship to most countries. If you really want the

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainset...inset-483626t/

JWK

I'll check that out. Nothing wrong with Sugino. Thanks.

Negative, mon ami. SJS cannot ship shimano products to the U.S.A.

saddlesores

Deore FC-T6010

there are a couple dozen available on ebay in 170 or 175, mostly from uk or germany with international shipping.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294701980877

this seller WILL ship to the usa.

Shipping:
GBP 29.28 (approx THB1,251.18) Expedited Shipping to United States via eBay's Global Shipping Program

irc

Ah. The old restriction of trade scam. Like when I wanted a Specialized saddle that was unavailable in the UK but USA shops were not allowedto ship to the UK.

Tourist in MSN

Markups on bike parts have been quite high in USA. Before Ortlieb told their European dealers to stop shipping to USA, I bought all my Ortiebs from Europe and saved a lot of money, even after paying for international shipping. The last time I bought something from Europe that was a Shimano product, before shipping costs, it was better than half price. When I bought my Rohloff Hub, I bought it mail order from Germany and that knocked off about $500 USD.

USA distributors have fought hard to maintain a lucrative supply chain with high markups and they have convinced some manufacturers to support them with restrictions on shipping to USA.

irc

Probably an advantage of Ebay then. If manufacturers take it too far individuals can undercut them by selling on Ebay which appears unaffected by these sort of market distortions.

cyccommute 

Your best bet is probably Ebay. Here’s a 9 speed XT, 10 speed XT, a Deore for $40, and an LX. That just scratches the surface. I would probably avoid XTR models, however. They are great cranks but they have often used funky chainrings that would be difficult to replace due to the BCD and chainring configuration.

Don’t worry about the 9 speed/10 speed issue. While 10 speed chains are narrower than 9 speed, that is in overall width. The internal width is the same. The 10 speed uses a thinner plate so that it can fit the narrower space of a cassette but it won’t be an issue for the chainrings. I’m running a couple of very old 8 speed cranks on 10 speed systems without issue.

JWK

That listing is for one with 175mm arms. I just did another search on ebay for FC-t6010. I only found a few, and they were all 175mm arms, also.

Yeah, I used to buy my Shimano components from Europe. The last big buy I did to reconfigure a gravel bike was in 2016. I checked a few years later and that was all gone. Hardly a "free market" now, is it?

I don't know what you mean by "advantage". To whom? Not being facetious, I really don't know what you mean. All the prices on ebay have shot way up on used cranksets and other components. ebay prices have increased proportionately to new components. Pre-pandemic, I could buy hollowtech Deore for half the price they are going for now.

Those are all 175mm arms. Yes, there are a lot of them. I will have to be patient and wait for a 170mm to pop up, I guess. Thanks for the heads up regarding the XTR. I definitely want easily found chain rings. From what I can gather so far, I think a 9 speed XT is probably my best bet for quality, supply, and reasonable cost.

79pmooney

I'm not suggesting anyone follow my path but I needed an as low as possible Q-factor triple 9-speed. I"d been running a 105 Hollowtech. Nice but (for my knees) huge Q-factor. My knees preferred riding the same hills on my fix gear.n Given that the triple gearing was on a custom ti bike, that's just not right!

So, I bought an ancient 110-74 BCD triple crankset for it's very straight crank arms and narrow overall design. No brand name on it. Looks Sugino/SR and it might be an old Specialized 'flag" logo. Put on a small inner ring, mounted it on the bike using a Shimano cartridge BB and measured the distance to contact (forget if it was crank arm to BB shell or ring teeth to chainstay). Did the calcs and ordered an absolute minimum Phil Wood BB.

Then the fun started, The web spacing between the outer and middle rings was for the old 5 and 6-speed chain. Way too wide for a 9-speed chain. I drilled and tapped screws into the crank spiders beside the middle rings teeth, then ground those screwheads into little ramps to deflect the chain onto the middle ring..

Next challenge - the FD wouldn't shift far enough inboard to do it's job. I' tried skewing the angle and got it to sorta work but it was a real force. A random box of FDs later and lots of seat tube paint lost, I realized I had to figure out how to physically move the entire FD inboard. A custom braze-on FD mount? (Not cheap with a two-color custom paint job on a ti bike.) Then "oh!". Get an FD for an oversized seat tube. Have a shim made that is asymmetrical with nothing on the DS and the full seat tube diameter difference on the NDS. So Dave Levy of TiCycles machined it. (and made it nice and long ot disguise all the massacred paint. (Thank you Dave.)

End result? Shifting up front feels a little different. But it works really well. I have had the chain start looking for the space between the rings I think twice but doing the save is easy. I only put those deflectors on three of the 5 spiders so it this becomes an issue I'll just make the other two. And the Q-factor! Down from maybe 160+ to 139!! (Velodrome-worthy Sugino 75s hang out at 132.) Knees simply love it! Crankset middle ring sits most of a 9-speed cog spacing inside the middle of the cassette. (All Campy in back so I'm guessing right-on for chainline.) Shifting in back is just fine with DT friction - a setup I may never change. Love it and can do it in my sleep.)

Again, not saying anyone should follow my lead. Just pointing out that creative stuff can be done to make our riding better. (And sometimes, the old stuff works better for innovative thinking.) Nothing on this cost much except - the Phil Wood BB and the shim. I doubt I spent much more than $100 for the crankset, rings and that box of FDs. And those Phil Wood square taper BBs. Expensive - yes. But - you can get any length and asymmetry you want. There is no "we can't get that" of we don't make those any more". Just "we don't have that in stock. Might take us two weeks to make it." And later - a new bike? Need different BB threads? different axle? No problem. And JIS/ISO tapers (as long as you know which one you have) are so easy and so prevalent. Another convenience if you have JIS taper - Shimano BBs are accurate. Take a wide one ($30) and thousands of used ones out there, mount your crankset, measure up what you've got, calculate what you want and sent that to Phil Wood.

And last - funny! 170s being hard to find. I've known a long time my knees love 175s and hate change. I'm totally used to going through boxes for the one or two pairs of 175s. Like the 32-34 pants and 34-15 1/2 shirts I wear. Every once in a while, styles change and my size becomes popular. So 175s are popular now?

cyccommute 

175mm are going to be far more common than anything else. 170mm is rare (but not as rare as 165). That said, 5mm really isn’t that much in the grand scheme of things. It’s less than 1/4” and probably won’t make much difference. You could buy the $40 Deore and at least try it without being out too much money.

irc

Sorry. I wasn't clear. If Shimano try to charge USA buyers $300 for a component they sell at $150 in Europe they can enforce restriction on a few major shops and wholesalers. They can't stop a few guys buying half a dozen and ebaying them. Ebay selling makes it easy for small scale international dealing by individuals while offering protection to the buyer.

irc

Sounds like one of these. For info of anyone else needing to adjust the position of a front derailleur.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spa...inished-split/

JWK

I hear what you're saying, and the logical part of my brain agrees with you, but my body and years of experience do not. I lived in the Lake Tahoe area from the late 80s to the mid 90s. In '91 I decided I had to get rid of my "old" clunker - a Ross Signature - and went up to Reno and bought a new Cannondale R500 with a triple. I was in heaven (until I wasn't) and rode that bike thousands of miles. I knew nothing about bikes at all, but started to learn. I didn't even know there were different crank arm lengths.

Cut to the year 2013. I buy Surly disc trucker, size 58. I rode that bike for thousands of miles, although not as many thousands as my Cannondale. I just can't get a comfortable spin on the road with my Surly compared to the Cannondale with its 170mm crank arms. I got a GT Grade when the "gravel" craze was just beginning and in 2016 put a Shimano 105 triple on it with 170mm crank arms. There it was again.

Let me be clear. I do not consider this proof. I consider it very strong anecdotal evidence. The logical part of my brain still does not accept it. I literally have looked at 5mm on a little tape measure. I take the measurement and pinch it out between my thumb and index finger, hold it up in front of my eyes and think, "Are you kidding me?! How the hell could that matter??!!" There are only two explanations. The first is that it's all in my head, the second is that as small as it is, it actually does matter. I've decided not to fight it. If after all these years some crazy part of my mind has decided I'm more comfortable with 170mm arms, then I will always feel more uncomfortable with 175mm knowing they are not the correct length for me. I want to enjoy my riding as best as I can, and if I have to indulge some crazy part of my mind to do that, so be it.

So let me ask your opinion (or anyone else nice enough to read this far) regarding a possible purchase. I looked again at that Deore 590 you so kindly linked for me. I had noticed it before, but took a closer look this time. It would come out to be about $55 with shipping. I can get a brand new Alivio FC-4060 with either 48/36/26 or 44/32/22 with 170mm arms for about $10 more from a couple of different vendors selling on the bay right now. Very established vendors. That difference in price is not a factor at all. Is there any reason to choose one over the other? I've learned a lot about bike mechanics, but I know absolutely nothing regarding cranksets. Chainrings I understand (I think). The actual crank part, no. Aside from weight, I do not understand what makes an XT better than plain Deore, what would even make Deore better than Alivio at this point. They all take the same BB, they all have replaceable rings. Is it just weight, or is there more?

Thanks for the help.

irc

"Chainrings I understand (I think). The actual crank part, no. Aside from weight, I do not understand what makes an XT better than plain Deore, what would even make Deore better than Alivio at this point. They all take the same BB, they all have replaceable rings. Is it just weight, or is there more?"

I run Deore 590 cranks on both my tourers. When I bought them the substantial differences between Deore and XT was that XT saved a bit of weight by having hollow crank arms and on the XT the middle ring saved weight by using composite construction. The Deore had alu outer ring and steel inner and middle which suits me because I spend almost all my time on those rings.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainrin...g-ae-type-32t/

For a touring bike with a weight of 17kg before any load I didn' think the weight saving was worth it.

When I bought mine anything below Deore was still square taper (as far as I remember). I like Hollowtech BBs on tour flor taking apart to pack.

If Alivio is now Hollowtech there is probably little if any difference between Deore/Alivio. I wouldn't hesitate to use Alivio cranks on my bike.

JWK

To be clear, Alivio is not hollowtech. The arms are not hollow. All three rings are steel. Unlike previous years, it is no longer square taper, which is a thing for me right now, for basically the same reason it is for you. Transporting the bike. So the updated Alivio is outboard BB and replaceable chainrings. However, I've searched for replacements, and there's not much available. Not that I would need to replace steel rings, but I probably would want to change the size on some or all. So there it is. It's probably heavier than your Deore 590. I'm still kicking myself for not buying one of those when they were available at Chain Reaction for like $60 or so. Snooze and lose.

phughes

I run Sugino. https://www.modernbike.com/sugino-xd...x-170mm-silver

And there are these from Rivendell. https://www.rivbike.com/products/cra...30700196331631

cyccommute 

I get where you are coming from. I ride 175mm most of the time and really don’t notice a difference. If you feel you do, that’s your choice. Nothing wrong with it.

The Deore isn’t a HollowtechII so there it very little difference between them. The Deore probably has an aluminum outer ring and maybe a middle ring, although the ring looks steel. You want a steel inner ring because aluminum gets chewed up too easily and can result in chain suck. The good thing about the Alivio is that the rings can be removed which isn’t necessarily true on all inexpensive cranks. You many never have to change a ring but it’s nice to have the option. Steel rings are going to make the Alivio a little heavier but that’s not a huge difference and, if you want, you can always change them. The crank is new which is also a plus, although used cranks aren’t much of a problem in my experience.

I’d probably suggest going with the 44/32/22 rather than the 48. The high gear on the 48 is nice but the 44’s high gear is a bit more useful. A 44/11 combination is 111 gear inches while the 48/11 is 121”. The 111” gear is still pretty high but the other gears on the cluster are lower and easier on your knees. Shifts a little more crisply as well.

Goz

I just bought a Deore LX FC-T671 for a weird di2 touring bike upgrade (Dawes ultra galaxy). Planning on using it to drag my trailer from London to brighton (only 54 miles) with a fridge full of Gin & Tonic to raise money for the british heart foundation next month

All working nicely with an 11 speed 11-42 setup at the mo ... loving it ... still not dropped to the inner ring yet ... but i suspect when towing 30kg of fridge and booze up ditchling beacon I'm gonna be finding those lower gears 🤣