Indexed vs Friction Shifters
#276
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I like indexed shifting on bikes I'm using in traffic or trails. My commuter and mountain bike are both indexed. My two 10 speeds are friction shift and sui me just fine for the longer paved road or gravel rides. So I guess my only preference comes down to what activity I am doing as both work great.
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The extension of that logic is the penny-farthing ... nothing to do but pedal.
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People mistakingly think Sepp Kuss was trying to swap batteries on his SRAM rear derailleur in the Giro, but he was really trying to shift his front derailleur and couldn't find the rod.
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He's also done PBP, Unbound XL, and currently holds the FKT on the Oregon Outback course, all using a rod-operated front derailleur. (And a ludicrously-expensive and obsessively-redesigned version of a 1930s French rear, but, hey... it's Jan Heine... weird French stuff is gonna happen.)
Granted, Jan's a beast of a rider, but, still... it didn't slow him down much.
--Shannon
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#283
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'essentially the same place'? Stem vs fingertip? I think that's a pretty BIG stretch. :-}
I did once look for stem shifters or shifters that could be mounted nearby, but having had difficulty finding any, assumed they'd been deprecated due to risk of puncturing the chest upon collision.
Now that I've discovered the pleasure of indexed shifters on thumb & forefinger, I ain't downgrading to less. I will only consider hinged/clip-over shifters that mount onto 23.8-24mm bars - so I don't have to remove all the tape, dual brakes, etc.
Last edited by Xavier65; 06-14-23 at 01:59 AM.
#284
Newbie
Usually, I use Campagnolo indexed shifters and they work great.
But I've travelled with Dia Compe Wing shifters and a 8s 11-32 Shimano cassette, and they shift really really great ! Almost no trimming . . .
I think that is due to the micro-ratcheting. Give it a try, you'll love it !
But I've travelled with Dia Compe Wing shifters and a 8s 11-32 Shimano cassette, and they shift really really great ! Almost no trimming . . .
I think that is due to the micro-ratcheting. Give it a try, you'll love it !
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I do prefer friction on my Surly LHT 10 speed just for the ease of getting it right. With friction all I have to do is make sure the limits of the derailleur are set properly. Too much tension tweaking needed for my preference with indexed on that bike.
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The bike originally came with Campi friction but ‘upgraded’ to indexed. What a world of difference. When Campi Ergo levers came out, Oooo La La - a universe of difference. They are on my Fondriest.
Edit: This bike is beat to death - and exclusively is my rain bike - but it still rides like a dream - now if it only had better gearing for climbing. Ain’t 30 no mo.
Edit: This bike is beat to death - and exclusively is my rain bike - but it still rides like a dream - now if it only had better gearing for climbing. Ain’t 30 no mo.
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I used friction shifters on my road bike until about 10 years ago. My wife has used index shifters since 1986.
What it really comes down to is when you absolutely have to hit the shift perfectly, index is the way to go. When you have the time, then friction is fine.
This is why you never see a friction/index debate on a mountain bike forum. Trails are tougher than the early mtb days. Terrain suddenly changes and things happen so fast, no one can afford to fiddle with friction shifting on a mtb these days.
John
What it really comes down to is when you absolutely have to hit the shift perfectly, index is the way to go. When you have the time, then friction is fine.
This is why you never see a friction/index debate on a mountain bike forum. Trails are tougher than the early mtb days. Terrain suddenly changes and things happen so fast, no one can afford to fiddle with friction shifting on a mtb these days.
John
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I used friction shifters on my road bike until about 10 years ago. My wife has used index shifters since 1986.
What it really comes down to is when you absolutely have to hit the shift perfectly, index is the way to go. When you have the time, then friction is fine.
This is why you never see a friction/index debate on a mountain bike forum. Trails are tougher than the early mtb days. Terrain suddenly changes and things happen so fast, no one can afford to fiddle with friction shifting on a mtb these days.
John
What it really comes down to is when you absolutely have to hit the shift perfectly, index is the way to go. When you have the time, then friction is fine.
This is why you never see a friction/index debate on a mountain bike forum. Trails are tougher than the early mtb days. Terrain suddenly changes and things happen so fast, no one can afford to fiddle with friction shifting on a mtb these days.
John
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I used friction shifters on my road bike until about 10 years ago. My wife has used index shifters since 1986.
What it really comes down to is when you absolutely have to hit the shift perfectly, index is the way to go. When you have the time, then friction is fine.
This is why you never see a friction/index debate on a mountain bike forum. Trails are tougher than the early mtb days. Terrain suddenly changes and things happen so fast, no one can afford to fiddle with friction shifting on a mtb these days.
John
What it really comes down to is when you absolutely have to hit the shift perfectly, index is the way to go. When you have the time, then friction is fine.
This is why you never see a friction/index debate on a mountain bike forum. Trails are tougher than the early mtb days. Terrain suddenly changes and things happen so fast, no one can afford to fiddle with friction shifting on a mtb these days.
John
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I’m glad Phil did not see his shadow on Friday.
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The reason trails are tougher is the racing attitude of riders. I don't get the "no one can afford to fiddle with friction these days". Afford, in what sense of the word? It doesn't apply unless you are racing. Basically, you are only speaking about the competition side of mountain biking. Personally, I don't have a purpose-built MTB trail or anywhere where riders compete within 2 hours' drive of me. I do ride some old trails in steep terrain on a MTB. I enjoy both indexed and friction, but I prefer friction simply because it is fast enough for my purposes and much less fussy about being in perfect condition, and much easier to maintain and set up. In my case afford has a different meaning. I don't need ultra expensive equipment. I prefer a 3X9 or 3X10 or 2X9 or 2X10 drivetrain for its upkeep cost to a super expensive 1X12 or some such.
As someone who started riding MTBs in the early ‘90s, 3x was always the standard. However, I have come to prefer the simplicity and purely sequential shifting of modern 1x systems. Enough so that I set my gravel bike up as 1x, too.
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I took “afford” in the sense of time, and I completely agree. I encounter situations on my MTB on a regular basis where I need an immediate and precise change of gear. Friction shifting would be highly frustrating. I’m not a racer (any more) and I’m not trying to be the fastest jackass on the hill (any more), but often ride demanding trails.
As someone who started riding MTBs in the early ‘90s, 3x was always the standard. However, I have come to prefer the simplicity and purely sequential shifting of modern 1x systems. Enough so that I set my gravel bike up as 1x, too.
As someone who started riding MTBs in the early ‘90s, 3x was always the standard. However, I have come to prefer the simplicity and purely sequential shifting of modern 1x systems. Enough so that I set my gravel bike up as 1x, too.
With my riding style, hard and slow, if I need an Immedient change of gears it's going to be to the lowest one. I can actually get there much faster by friction. The only time I prefer indexed is when I am trying to maintain the highest speed up and down hills. That's not how I ride 90% of the time.
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I've heard of hard and fast, and I've heard of slow and easy, but I've not heard of "hard and slow." This must be some new style of riding.
I fail to understand how friction shifting could be faster than indexed -- especially if the indexed shifter is in an STI lever, or a trigger shifter -- neither of which require you to even move your hand from the handlebar.
I fail to understand how friction shifting could be faster than indexed -- especially if the indexed shifter is in an STI lever, or a trigger shifter -- neither of which require you to even move your hand from the handlebar.
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No Larry and those reading Friction shifting is for people who want lower maintenance and maybe want to mix and match parts that might be harder to mix and match. Also you don't need to run them downtube there are bar end shifters and also things like Gevenalle which gives you the convenience of an STI type lever with the reliability of your barcon/downtube shifters, plus you can also find some stem shifters though typically in the vintage world found on more low end stuff but I have seen some modern upgrades to it using higher quality parts. People like Mr. Armstrong used a friction downtube shifter to cut weight back in the day.
They are also great for touring when say things go bad and your indexing stops working you can switch a lot of barcon and downtube shifters (including Gevenalle stuff) to friction and keep running things or maybe something breaks and you need to keep it running quickly and easily to get you back on the road and hopefully someplace you can fix it.
Friction is actually quite nice and especially for a front derailleur it makes a ton of sense. Being able to adjust things on the fly as you shift in the back to prevent rubbing and noise.
No I am not saying that indexed shifting is bad or anything like that but their is still a great place for friction and not just for "vintage nerds".
They are also great for touring when say things go bad and your indexing stops working you can switch a lot of barcon and downtube shifters (including Gevenalle stuff) to friction and keep running things or maybe something breaks and you need to keep it running quickly and easily to get you back on the road and hopefully someplace you can fix it.
Friction is actually quite nice and especially for a front derailleur it makes a ton of sense. Being able to adjust things on the fly as you shift in the back to prevent rubbing and noise.
No I am not saying that indexed shifting is bad or anything like that but their is still a great place for friction and not just for "vintage nerds".
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The reason trails are tougher is the racing attitude of riders. I don't get the "no one can afford to fiddle with friction these days". Afford, in what sense of the word? It doesn't apply unless you are racing. Basically, you are only speaking about the competition side of mountain biking. Personally, I don't have a purpose-built MTB trail or anywhere where riders compete within 2 hours' drive of me. I do ride some old trails in steep terrain on a MTB. I enjoy both indexed and friction, but I prefer friction simply because it is fast enough for my purposes and much less fussy about being in perfect condition, and much easier to maintain and set up. In my case afford has a different meaning. I don't need ultra expensive equipment. I prefer a 3X9 or 3X10 or 2X9 or 2X10 drivetrain for its upkeep cost to a super expensive 1X12 or some such.
I do race XC MTB, but prefer the shifting on a modern 1x12 for virtually all trail riding...I can up to a trail feature, at speed, and rapid fire some shifts into the "correct" gear. All in a second or two and with zero worry about dropping a chain. I understand that not everyone needs these abilities in a drivetrain, but they're very reliable too. One of my mountain bikes I've had since '19. Many miles of rocky, technical Sierra singletrack on it...the derailleur looks like hell, gouged with rock rash. However, it performs flawlessly...I think I only adjusted the barrel adjuster once since buying it.
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I don't have a problem with index shifters. If you have slow reaction time to changing terrain, then us them!
I prefer the elegance of friction thumb shifters on all surfaces with a 1x10.
Never had a problem dropping a chain or missing a shift.
I prefer the elegance of friction thumb shifters on all surfaces with a 1x10.
Never had a problem dropping a chain or missing a shift.
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And then there is the Campi Ergo shifters which allow the rider to slam the gears from highest to lowest in one single motion - or anything in between. And as an added bonus, they don’t have to remove their hands from the hoods when hitting a climb or mid-turn.
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