Build thread: 1974 Masi Gran Criterium
#26
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I do not know if they ship or not, but last time I was in Seattle at the Cycle Recyclers (I'm sure the name is similar) they had a bucket of used forks including a flat crown with MASI panto'd on top.
It might have been red. (I'm colorblind, so color memory is not the best.)
Good luck.
It might have been red. (I'm colorblind, so color memory is not the best.)
Good luck.
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#27
I received the Masi right as I was finishing up work today. Can't remember the last time I was this excited to unbox something..
I unboxed it and ogled the frameset in my hands, then quickly set about cleaning off the accumulated road grime, attacking the lug lines and little nooks with q-tips and toothpicks. I found a minor dent in the top tube, which bummed me out, as the frameset was sold as clean and without dents or cracks of any kind. Eventually, though, I started noticing things that progressively got me much more worried.
Next was this crimping on the seat tube. Initially, I thought this might have been from something being clamped into place. But it doesn't seem to be uniform, along with having ridges that I can feel it pretty clearly on the inside of the tube with my finger. So maybe buckling from impact, more likely?
The NDS seatstay is subtly but very noticeably bent. Once you see it, can't unsee it.
And then, finally, I noticed that the DS dropout is cracked...
Needless to say, I don't feel comfortable riding this frameset. Very sad right now, and a bit worried about how the seller will respond, as we settled up privately outside of eBay...
I unboxed it and ogled the frameset in my hands, then quickly set about cleaning off the accumulated road grime, attacking the lug lines and little nooks with q-tips and toothpicks. I found a minor dent in the top tube, which bummed me out, as the frameset was sold as clean and without dents or cracks of any kind. Eventually, though, I started noticing things that progressively got me much more worried.
Next was this crimping on the seat tube. Initially, I thought this might have been from something being clamped into place. But it doesn't seem to be uniform, along with having ridges that I can feel it pretty clearly on the inside of the tube with my finger. So maybe buckling from impact, more likely?
The NDS seatstay is subtly but very noticeably bent. Once you see it, can't unsee it.
And then, finally, I noticed that the DS dropout is cracked...
Needless to say, I don't feel comfortable riding this frameset. Very sad right now, and a bit worried about how the seller will respond, as we settled up privately outside of eBay...
Last edited by heidelbergensis; 06-28-23 at 06:10 PM.
#28
Senior Member
Hopefully there will be a reasonable resolution to this. It most certainly doesn’t match the description that was given when you purchased it. I’m not sure how the frame could be fixed without some witness of the damage, if it can be done , it will be expensive. I’m bummed for you , this would be a major disappointment.
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#29
Senior Member
Don’t match the description very well.
‘the seat tube I think shows trauma of a stuck seat post removal.
‘the seat stay… crash repair straightening, bummer (can be used but changes the whole deal.
the crack in the dropout is perhaps a flaw from the forging, Maybe. Strip the paint and….?
I would unwind the deal. Big $ to correct.
Dishonest
‘the seat tube I think shows trauma of a stuck seat post removal.
‘the seat stay… crash repair straightening, bummer (can be used but changes the whole deal.
the crack in the dropout is perhaps a flaw from the forging, Maybe. Strip the paint and….?
I would unwind the deal. Big $ to correct.
Dishonest
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#30
#31
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I'm in the middle of the same from on here, thought Paypal would help but they sided with the seller, ef me, I knew better and still couldn't help myself.
#32
Senior Member
If I'd paid good money for that frame I would be very disappointed.
My bike has lots of flaws but I put them there.
The seat tube, chain stay and drop out are just not okay.
My bike has lots of flaws but I put them there.
The seat tube, chain stay and drop out are just not okay.
#33
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#34
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Sorry to read this. That bike needs a complete going over by Rob Roberson or someone of that skill level.
if you bought it outside of ebay you probably have little recourse other than the seller's goodwill, sorry to say.
this I think is the problem with buying a bike or frame based on a few carefully curated pictures offered by a seller who may have an intent to deceive.
Interested to know if there was any representation of the frame's integrity or damage history in the original Ebay listing ?
to me, in current condition, that frame is "worth" less than 500 bucks based on what it would take to put right.
Like a porsche turbo that has been heavily crashed and sold on a salvage title
/markp
if you bought it outside of ebay you probably have little recourse other than the seller's goodwill, sorry to say.
this I think is the problem with buying a bike or frame based on a few carefully curated pictures offered by a seller who may have an intent to deceive.
Interested to know if there was any representation of the frame's integrity or damage history in the original Ebay listing ?
to me, in current condition, that frame is "worth" less than 500 bucks based on what it would take to put right.
Like a porsche turbo that has been heavily crashed and sold on a salvage title
/markp
#35
Full Member
Was this from the original listing?
———————-
“This bike has been damaged in the past and repaired, an is not fully original. I purchased this bike several years ago in a repaired state, so I do not know all of the details. It was either crashed, or driven into a garage (by a previous owner. There is damage to the fork steerer (see pics); I drilled a small hole in the steerer where a small crack existed in order to stop it's spread. Ive put approximately 1,100 miles on the bike and the crack has not grown. I'm assuming that the head tube was also replaced as the lower head tube lug does not match what should have been a '74 frame - it has a slightly new lug. As I said, I dont
know what all was repaired.”
————————
Sounds like the seller tossed out enough red flags there but really should’ve provided a better inspection and detailed photos. Not quite a diamond in the rough but maybe cubic zirconia? Nice fork anyway if the seller won’t step up.
———————-
“This bike has been damaged in the past and repaired, an is not fully original. I purchased this bike several years ago in a repaired state, so I do not know all of the details. It was either crashed, or driven into a garage (by a previous owner. There is damage to the fork steerer (see pics); I drilled a small hole in the steerer where a small crack existed in order to stop it's spread. Ive put approximately 1,100 miles on the bike and the crack has not grown. I'm assuming that the head tube was also replaced as the lower head tube lug does not match what should have been a '74 frame - it has a slightly new lug. As I said, I dont
know what all was repaired.”
————————
Sounds like the seller tossed out enough red flags there but really should’ve provided a better inspection and detailed photos. Not quite a diamond in the rough but maybe cubic zirconia? Nice fork anyway if the seller won’t step up.
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#36
Senior Member
Was this from the original listing?
———————-
“This bike has been damaged in the past and repaired, an is not fully original. I purchased this bike several years ago in a repaired state, so I do not know all of the details. It was either crashed, or driven into a garage (by a previous owner. There is damage to the fork steerer (see pics); I drilled a small hole in the steerer where a small crack existed in order to stop it's spread. Ive put approximately 1,100 miles on the bike and the crack has not grown. I'm assuming that the head tube was also replaced as the lower head tube lug does not match what should have been a '74 frame - it has a slightly new lug. As I said, I dont
know what all was repaired.”
————————
Sounds like the seller tossed out enough red flags there but really should’ve provided a better inspection and detailed photos. Not quite a diamond in the rough but maybe cubic zirconia? Nice fork anyway if the seller won’t step up.
———————-
“This bike has been damaged in the past and repaired, an is not fully original. I purchased this bike several years ago in a repaired state, so I do not know all of the details. It was either crashed, or driven into a garage (by a previous owner. There is damage to the fork steerer (see pics); I drilled a small hole in the steerer where a small crack existed in order to stop it's spread. Ive put approximately 1,100 miles on the bike and the crack has not grown. I'm assuming that the head tube was also replaced as the lower head tube lug does not match what should have been a '74 frame - it has a slightly new lug. As I said, I dont
know what all was repaired.”
————————
Sounds like the seller tossed out enough red flags there but really should’ve provided a better inspection and detailed photos. Not quite a diamond in the rough but maybe cubic zirconia? Nice fork anyway if the seller won’t step up.
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#37
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=======================================
“This bike has been damaged in the past and repaired, an is not fully original. I purchased this bike several years ago in a repaired state, so I do not know all of the details. It was either crashed, or driven into a garage (by a previous owner. There is damage to the fork steerer (see pics); I drilled a small hole in the steerer where a small crack existed in order to stop it's spread. Ive put approximately 1,100 miles on the bike and the crack has not grown. I'm assuming that the head tube was also replaced as the lower head tube lug does not match what should have been a '74 frame - it has a slightly new lug. As I said, I dont know what all was repaired.”
=======================================
If that is the seller's disclosure than the buyer had ample warning in my view.
there was a posting years ago by Brian Baylis about a repair to a Confente frame and what he had to do to put it right. And I'm not saying this one could not be put right also, although the number of framebuilders who are capable and interested in doing that kind of work is diminishing by the day.
heidelbergensis I do hope you did not pay too much for this frame, because it needs $2000 or more worth of repairs.
and I think the seller did a pretty fair disclosure, if that paragraph above is from the original ad.
/markp
/markp
“This bike has been damaged in the past and repaired, an is not fully original. I purchased this bike several years ago in a repaired state, so I do not know all of the details. It was either crashed, or driven into a garage (by a previous owner. There is damage to the fork steerer (see pics); I drilled a small hole in the steerer where a small crack existed in order to stop it's spread. Ive put approximately 1,100 miles on the bike and the crack has not grown. I'm assuming that the head tube was also replaced as the lower head tube lug does not match what should have been a '74 frame - it has a slightly new lug. As I said, I dont know what all was repaired.”
=======================================
If that is the seller's disclosure than the buyer had ample warning in my view.
there was a posting years ago by Brian Baylis about a repair to a Confente frame and what he had to do to put it right. And I'm not saying this one could not be put right also, although the number of framebuilders who are capable and interested in doing that kind of work is diminishing by the day.
heidelbergensis I do hope you did not pay too much for this frame, because it needs $2000 or more worth of repairs.
and I think the seller did a pretty fair disclosure, if that paragraph above is from the original ad.
/markp
/markp
#38
Here's the full original listing description from eBay:
The seller responded, and it looks like I'm going to return the frameset for a full refund. I think that they honestly did not notice the issues, as they purchased the frameset in its current condition and rode it without thinking about it too much. But, as you can see, the original listing hinges on that last sentence. It's just not in the condition as advertised. mpetry912 Thankfully, I paid $450 shipped, so a great deal on the GC by any means - but again, it was based on that description above. I wouldn't have pursued the purchase otherwise if these issues had been detailed in the original listing. I might also add that $450 is not an insignificant sum of money on a translator's salary.
I would be inclined to accept a partial refund and do the same as the seller did (i.e. ride the sh*t out of it) if it weren't for that crack in the dropout. There's no telling when that developed - could've been on the last ride that the seller did on the Masi before breaking it down for sale. I don't want to proceed with the partial refund option and then have the dropout fail, potentially also causing an accident.
I do appreciate that this frameset deserves to be restored, but, as I'm currently already restoring a bike and having a custom bike built for me, I can't afford to take on another project like this, much as I'd like to find a way to keep and ride this GC.
I would be inclined to accept a partial refund and do the same as the seller did (i.e. ride the sh*t out of it) if it weren't for that crack in the dropout. There's no telling when that developed - could've been on the last ride that the seller did on the Masi before breaking it down for sale. I don't want to proceed with the partial refund option and then have the dropout fail, potentially also causing an accident.
I do appreciate that this frameset deserves to be restored, but, as I'm currently already restoring a bike and having a custom bike built for me, I can't afford to take on another project like this, much as I'd like to find a way to keep and ride this GC.
Last edited by heidelbergensis; 06-29-23 at 01:09 PM.
#39
Senior Member
Reads promising.
the issue with the dropout, apprehension is the best view I think.
who knows when this surfaced, I do not think it would lead to a dangerous failure but not cheap.
an early bike from the Carlsbad plant, but lived a dramatic life.
the issue with the dropout, apprehension is the best view I think.
who knows when this surfaced, I do not think it would lead to a dangerous failure but not cheap.
an early bike from the Carlsbad plant, but lived a dramatic life.
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#40
Senior Member
I think getting a full refund is a good idea.
As an aside, how would it be repaired?
1. Can the chain stay end be de-brazed from the bottom bracket without damage to the bottom bracket?
2. Could just the chain stay and cracked drop out be removed and replaced?
3. Would it require removing both the seat and chain stays?
#3 sounds the most straight-forward but is also the most torch work - bottom bracket, seat lug, brake bridge.
Can seat stay be reused or will the repeated heating damage it?
Can one still get a matching Campi drop out?
As an aside, how would it be repaired?
1. Can the chain stay end be de-brazed from the bottom bracket without damage to the bottom bracket?
2. Could just the chain stay and cracked drop out be removed and replaced?
3. Would it require removing both the seat and chain stays?
#3 sounds the most straight-forward but is also the most torch work - bottom bracket, seat lug, brake bridge.
Can seat stay be reused or will the repeated heating damage it?
Can one still get a matching Campi drop out?
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#41
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My personal opinion is that it's beyond economical repair.
meaning you would be better off looking for a frame in good condition
would need a full repair with several tubes replaced + paint
Assuming you really want it to be as good as a vintage Masi can be
in any case you are out the price of the shipping both ways which is half what you paid for it.
I am glad the seller was so obliging.as to let you return the frame for refund. ! "As is, where is"
if there is damage disclosed, be a skeptical buyer ! Don't let wishful thinking get the better of you.
/markp
meaning you would be better off looking for a frame in good condition
would need a full repair with several tubes replaced + paint
Assuming you really want it to be as good as a vintage Masi can be
in any case you are out the price of the shipping both ways which is half what you paid for it.
I am glad the seller was so obliging.as to let you return the frame for refund. ! "As is, where is"
if there is damage disclosed, be a skeptical buyer ! Don't let wishful thinking get the better of you.
/markp
Last edited by mpetry912; 06-29-23 at 01:49 PM.
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#42
mpetry912 Yeah, I would sadly agree re. the repairability. Seems like at least the first component of "kinetic sculpture" can no longer can be applied to this particular Masi. Would make a great display piece. Unfortunately, I need something I can ride.
I've been having extraordinarily bad "bike luck" the past few years - and particularly recently, it seems everything I acquire via eBay ends up having some kind of issue. This is not so much an issue with components as it is with framesets or completes. It also didn't used to be this way. I think I've finally learned my lesson with this Masi. That being said, local marketplaces like CL or Facebook, etc, have dried up with regards to interesting C&V finds...
I've been having extraordinarily bad "bike luck" the past few years - and particularly recently, it seems everything I acquire via eBay ends up having some kind of issue. This is not so much an issue with components as it is with framesets or completes. It also didn't used to be this way. I think I've finally learned my lesson with this Masi. That being said, local marketplaces like CL or Facebook, etc, have dried up with regards to interesting C&V finds...
#43
Senior Member
I am glad that you will come out of this Ok. I would still be bummed If I came that close to owning a "grail" bike , as I am sure you are. Good Luck , and pedal on .
#44
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heidelbergensis It's a jungle out there buddy.
problem is you can only base your evaluation on a few pics and a seller's description.
Always get a 2nd opinion if you have the slightest doubt. I suggest you "crowd source" your reviews of any future purpose
the good folks here will be happy to share their opinion and pick it apart.like vultures on a carcass
/markp
problem is you can only base your evaluation on a few pics and a seller's description.
Always get a 2nd opinion if you have the slightest doubt. I suggest you "crowd source" your reviews of any future purpose
the good folks here will be happy to share their opinion and pick it apart.like vultures on a carcass
/markp
Last edited by mpetry912; 06-29-23 at 03:01 PM.
#45
Senior Member
I think getting a full refund is a good idea.
As an aside, how would it be repaired?
1. Can the chain stay end be de-brazed from the bottom bracket without damage to the bottom bracket?
2. Could just the chain stay and cracked drop out be removed and replaced?
3. Would it require removing both the seat and chain stays?
#3 sounds the most straight-forward but is also the most torch work - bottom bracket, seat lug, brake bridge.
Can seat stay be reused or will the repeated heating damage it?
Can one still get a matching Campi drop out?
As an aside, how would it be repaired?
1. Can the chain stay end be de-brazed from the bottom bracket without damage to the bottom bracket?
2. Could just the chain stay and cracked drop out be removed and replaced?
3. Would it require removing both the seat and chain stays?
#3 sounds the most straight-forward but is also the most torch work - bottom bracket, seat lug, brake bridge.
Can seat stay be reused or will the repeated heating damage it?
Can one still get a matching Campi drop out?
that can be replaced, so can the seat tube
the dropout also, non drive side parts are easier to locate.
do all that and paint, maybe remove the later top tube guides-
far beyond a reasonable expenditure.
#46
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and then get the whole thing straightened out. Far better to get Rob Roberson to build you a GC replica.
/markp
#47
Senior Member
That it is a seat stay would make it easier, no?
For some reason, I am not so worried about the seat tube. Of course, I cannot see inside it.
#48
Senior Member
Does the seller even want the bike back?
If so, they should pay for the shipping. They are the one who made the erroneous (fraudulent) posting. It should not cost you anything to recover from their attempted fraud.
If so, they should pay for the shipping. They are the one who made the erroneous (fraudulent) posting. It should not cost you anything to recover from their attempted fraud.
#49
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My personal opinion is that it's beyond economical repair.
in any case you are out the price of the shipping both ways which is half what you paid for it.
I am glad the seller was so obliging.as to let you return the frame for refund. ! "As is, where is"
if there is damage disclosed, be a skeptical buyer ! Don't let wishful thinking get the better of you.
/markp
in any case you are out the price of the shipping both ways which is half what you paid for it.
I am glad the seller was so obliging.as to let you return the frame for refund. ! "As is, where is"
if there is damage disclosed, be a skeptical buyer ! Don't let wishful thinking get the better of you.
/markp