Making hills easier
#1
Making hills easier
So I have a mid drive electric bike and while it works for hills, imo it actually is roughly the same for hill climb as an older hub motor system that I own.
The issue is that for some hills that are so steep that I have to pedal constantly to keep on moving. Once I stop pedaling, I stop moving. I cant ever build up enough momentum even on a mid drive ebike to be able to coast even briefly. The constant pedaling is of course noticable and tiresome.
Is there any system that would do better here than a torque sensing mid drive? It does make the hills easier than an analogue bike which I would either end up walking or exerting serious effort. But the hills still are noticable in effort.
The issue is that for some hills that are so steep that I have to pedal constantly to keep on moving. Once I stop pedaling, I stop moving. I cant ever build up enough momentum even on a mid drive ebike to be able to coast even briefly. The constant pedaling is of course noticable and tiresome.
Is there any system that would do better here than a torque sensing mid drive? It does make the hills easier than an analogue bike which I would either end up walking or exerting serious effort. But the hills still are noticable in effort.
#4
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Not really sure I'm following you. If the pedals stop turning the pedal assist cuts off motor power. Seems like that should happen on any bike without a throttle.
If I set the assist level high enough the bike will power up any hill I've encountered. I do need to at least ghost pedal to keep the controller sending juice to the motor. It is common for me to stop pedaling and use the throttle to crest the very top of a hill.
So is it the fact you lose power when you stop pedaling or the idea your motor doesn't have enough oomph to keep you moving that you are worried about?
If I set the assist level high enough the bike will power up any hill I've encountered. I do need to at least ghost pedal to keep the controller sending juice to the motor. It is common for me to stop pedaling and use the throttle to crest the very top of a hill.
So is it the fact you lose power when you stop pedaling or the idea your motor doesn't have enough oomph to keep you moving that you are worried about?
#5
Senior Member
As above, whether you have a torque sensor or cadence, if you stop pedaling on an ascent, you stop. The only solution is to have a throttle handy, and if the hill is so steep that you still stop or go too slow, you need a bigger motor. Best bet is a powerful mid like BBSHD which you should be able to ascend almost any hill in max assist and lowest gear with its throttle or a super powerful (and heavy) hub.
Last edited by 2old; 07-03-23 at 01:42 PM.
#8
Senior Member
I find hills going down makes them easier.
#9
As above, whether you have a torque sensor or cadence, if you stop pedaling on an ascent, you stop. The only solution is to have a throttle handy, and if the hill is so steep that you still stop or go too slow, you need a bigger motor. Best bet is a powerful mid like BBS02 which you should be able to ascend almost any hill in max assist and lowest gear with its throttle or a super powerful (and heavy) hub.
#10
Senior Member
Many (most) DYI kits have a throttle. Big OEM's (Specialized, Trek, Giant) don't because it removes them from Class 1.
#12
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My BBSHD will easily sustain 30+ mph up a hill like that with me pedaling. The thumb throttle is limited to something like 80% of max assist, you will actually get more boost by pedaling rather than throttle only, plus whatever power your legs contribute.
#13
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So I have a mid drive electric bike and while it works for hills, imo it actually is roughly the same for hill climb as an older hub motor system that I own.
The issue is that for some hills that are so steep that I have to pedal constantly to keep on moving. Once I stop pedaling, I stop moving. I cant ever build up enough momentum even on a mid drive ebike to be able to coast even briefly. The constant pedaling is of course noticable and tiresome.
Is there any system that would do better here than a torque sensing mid drive? It does make the hills easier than an analogue bike which I would either end up walking or exerting serious effort. But the hills still are noticable in effort.
The issue is that for some hills that are so steep that I have to pedal constantly to keep on moving. Once I stop pedaling, I stop moving. I cant ever build up enough momentum even on a mid drive ebike to be able to coast even briefly. The constant pedaling is of course noticable and tiresome.
Is there any system that would do better here than a torque sensing mid drive? It does make the hills easier than an analogue bike which I would either end up walking or exerting serious effort. But the hills still are noticable in effort.
Your hub drive bike, assuming it has throttle, can keep power on when you stop pedaling, so even though it doesn't benefit from the low bike gear as a mid drive, it can keep power on even when you quit pedaling.
I think you should just stick with your mid drive and pedal lightly the whole time. Full power on those things is a LOT of boost; you shouldn't have to pedal at a "bothersome" level to climb hills.
#14
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Why do you keep talking like mid drives don't have throttles? All of Bafang's mid drive kits can accept a throttle. They make more ebike motors than anyone.
IMO stay way from the European spec bikes. They are the one that make throttles outlaws.
IMO stay way from the European spec bikes. They are the one that make throttles outlaws.
#16
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Bosch seems almost like Apple in their proprietary approach to their products. Not sure if they are trying to protect their image or if they just want to milk the consumer.
The Chinese brands don't seem to give a hoot. Let people hotrod
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#17
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AFAICT, all of the "big's" (Bosch, Shimano, Brose, Yamaha, etc) mid-drives are proprietary.
#18
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I hear you. Seems like many factory bikes don't have throttles. Probably a combo of European regulations and warranty issues.
Bosch seems almost like Apple in their proprietary approach to their products. Not sure if they are trying to protect their image or if they just want to milk the consumer.
The Chinese brands don't seem to give a hoot. Let people hotrod
Bosch seems almost like Apple in their proprietary approach to their products. Not sure if they are trying to protect their image or if they just want to milk the consumer.
The Chinese brands don't seem to give a hoot. Let people hotrod
The Chinese brands don't give a hoot because they are literally fly-by-night. If they get sued, the close the business, move down the block and start again with the same tooling & staff, but new company name.
#19
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I have read that some of their newer stuff that is getting popular with bike manufacturers is heading more into the proprietary lock out paradigm. But the DIY stuff is still primarily open source. A good thing IMO
#20
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Bafang is the world's largest ebike supplier. Can't speak for the other brands, Chinese or otherwise, but Bafang makes some super high-quality stuff. I know the one I've been flogging hard for a few years now is most excellent. Hardly fly by night.
I have read that some of their newer stuff that is getting popular with bike manufacturers is heading more into the proprietary lock out paradigm. But the DIY stuff is still primarily open source. A good thing IMO
I have read that some of their newer stuff that is getting popular with bike manufacturers is heading more into the proprietary lock out paradigm. But the DIY stuff is still primarily open source. A good thing IMO
I've heard Bafang makes good stuff and I believe it. What the OEMs do with their product is not really their worry.
Example: My first eBike was a heybike Ranger, with 500 W Bafang hub motor. It was advertised as a Class 3 eBike, but set up as a Class 2 from the box. Going into software was easy to unlock throttle up to 25 mph. (takes it out of Class 3 and into moped territory, except that the bike didn't have a plate frame or DOT lighting.) Questionable but legal, since the bike was delivered as Class 2.
Trek and others who use Bosch motors set up their bikes as Class 1 (Active Line) or Class 3 (Performance Line). I'm not even sure Bosch motors have a provision for throttle.
#21
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Good points.
As for legalities, I'm not sure how ebike laws can be enforced. All these bikes and kits are software limited. How can a court let a lone a cop on the side of the trail prove that one way or the other?
I really like the fact I can adjust the assist levels as well as the soft start application of power. Bike is really smooth.
As for legalities, I'm not sure how ebike laws can be enforced. All these bikes and kits are software limited. How can a court let a lone a cop on the side of the trail prove that one way or the other?
I really like the fact I can adjust the assist levels as well as the soft start application of power. Bike is really smooth.
#22
A Class III bike will allow for pedal assist at higher speeds - up to 28 mph. I bought a Specialized Turbo Creo because it would provide pedal assist at higher speeds and allow me to gain momentum and use that momentum on hills. The Specialized bike provides power assist that will drop off gradually at faster speedsl. Other bikes would have programming for a hard cut-off of power at 18 mph and that would actually kick in at 15-16 mph and feel like the brakes were being applied.
At the time I also tried the Trek Domain+ but the bike was 10 lbs heavier and not as nimble as the Specialized Creo and the power cut-off was not nearly as smooth. That was in 2021 so current Trek bikes likely have improved. The Nm torque from the motor is also important but less so for a Class III bike where the rider is going to contribute a lot of the power for propelling the bike.
At the time I also tried the Trek Domain+ but the bike was 10 lbs heavier and not as nimble as the Specialized Creo and the power cut-off was not nearly as smooth. That was in 2021 so current Trek bikes likely have improved. The Nm torque from the motor is also important but less so for a Class III bike where the rider is going to contribute a lot of the power for propelling the bike.