The Sunset of Suntour
#1
Slowfoot
Thread Starter
The Sunset of Suntour
This is a well known piece (around here) from 1998 on the history of SunTour that probably deserves a bump. Lots of nuggets for those interested in the Shimano vs SunTour story. Written by Frank J. Berto - mechanical engineer and bicycle historian, former technical editor of Bicycling Magazine, and consultant to Shimano and other bicycle and bicycle component manufacturers. He is the author of Bicycling Magazine's Complete Guide to Upgrading Your Bicycle and Birth of Dirt: The Origins of Mountain Biking (and maybe more, this is an old blurb).
https://www.mechanischehirngespinnst...of_suntour.pdf
Nugget samples:
"Shimano commissioned a major survey of the U.S. adult bicycle market. The survey concluded that the market had changed from hard core racing and touring enthusiasts to yuppies. The yuppies wanted components that looked and performed like professional racing equipment but were easier to use. This was the same market shift led to products like fully automatic 35mm cameras."
"SunTour hosted three focus group meetings at the 1985 U.S. bike show. Each group had about twenty bike dealers. SunTour asked the dealers what they thought of Shimano's indexed shifting. The consensus response was that it was too complicated and too expensive and it would just be another Shimano fad. Based on this advice, SunTour decided that responding to Shimano SIS could be postponed for a year."
Because we like threads with pictures
https://www.mechanischehirngespinnst...of_suntour.pdf
Nugget samples:
"Shimano commissioned a major survey of the U.S. adult bicycle market. The survey concluded that the market had changed from hard core racing and touring enthusiasts to yuppies. The yuppies wanted components that looked and performed like professional racing equipment but were easier to use. This was the same market shift led to products like fully automatic 35mm cameras."
"SunTour hosted three focus group meetings at the 1985 U.S. bike show. Each group had about twenty bike dealers. SunTour asked the dealers what they thought of Shimano's indexed shifting. The consensus response was that it was too complicated and too expensive and it would just be another Shimano fad. Based on this advice, SunTour decided that responding to Shimano SIS could be postponed for a year."
Because we like threads with pictures
#2
Senior Member
I've got a whole box full of old & new Suntour shifters & derailleurs. The NOS Suntour thumb shifters I got are pretty cool. Work with just about anything with upright bars. Don't know about the derailleurs though. They're old technology. Mostly six speed stuff. They stay in the corner of the spare parts box. Don't know what I'm gonna do with them. I keep getting old 6 speed stuff spaced at 126mm and converting it to 7 speed Shimano trigger shifter. Take the Suntour stuff off & toss it into the spare parts bin. Oh well. Be good. Have fun.
#3
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I've got a whole box full of old & new Suntour shifters & derailleurs. The NOS Suntour thumb shifters I got are pretty cool. Work with just about anything with upright bars. Don't know about the derailleurs though. They're old technology. Mostly six speed stuff. They stay in the corner of the spare parts box. Don't know what I'm gonna do with them. I keep getting old 6 speed stuff spaced at 126mm and converting it to 7 speed Shimano trigger shifter. Take the Suntour stuff off & toss it into the spare parts bin. Oh well. Be good. Have fun.
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#4
Cantilever believer
One of Frank Berto's articles on gearing in early 1981 inspired me to change out the drivetrain on my first "real" road bike - and I've been following the same general ideas for the subsequent 40+ years. Had dinner with Frank and several others a couple times at Interbike, and bought two editions of "The Dancing Chain" from him. He is missed, but his practical guidance and historic documentation lives on.
For anything non-indexing, Suntour is still my #1 choice, and even their indexing stuff is still quite usable with more-recent components. It's a pity they couldn't survive, but they were just one of many component manufacturers such as Huret which couldn't keep up with Shimano in the global business of bicycle parts . The current Shimano / SRAM duopoly (plus Campy and the Sino-knockoffs) at least offers some choices in the current marketplace.
For anything non-indexing, Suntour is still my #1 choice, and even their indexing stuff is still quite usable with more-recent components. It's a pity they couldn't survive, but they were just one of many component manufacturers such as Huret which couldn't keep up with Shimano in the global business of bicycle parts . The current Shimano / SRAM duopoly (plus Campy and the Sino-knockoffs) at least offers some choices in the current marketplace.
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Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
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Our very own late pcb, Paul Brodek was there at SunTour as it unfolded.
Here's the episode of The Outspoken Cyclist when he tells about it, great stuff.
https://outspokencyclist.com/tag/paul-brodek/
Here's the episode of The Outspoken Cyclist when he tells about it, great stuff.
https://outspokencyclist.com/tag/paul-brodek/
#6
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Right now all of my derailleur bikes are using suntour. It's just the best for my needs.
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#7
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A sad tale, indeed, and proof that in 'business' it is far from enough to just make a great product. The two best (friction) shifting bikes I've ridden (and own) are Cyclone with DT Retrofrictions and Cyclone MkII with Dia-Compe ENE bar-ends.
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I run suntour on my friction bikes but the shimano indexing stuff works well in friction mode as well.
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#9
WGB
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I've got a whole box full of old & new Suntour shifters & derailleurs.
Photo it and sell on here! lots of us love it.
Photo it and sell on here! lots of us love it.
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#10
Senior Member
This is a well known piece (around here) from 1998 on the history of SunTour that probably deserves a bump. Lots of nuggets for those interested in the Shimano vs SunTour story. Written by Frank J. Berto - mechanical engineer and bicycle historian, former technical editor of Bicycling Magazine, and consultant to Shimano and other bicycle and bicycle component manufacturers. He is the author of Bicycling Magazine's Complete Guide to Upgrading Your Bicycle and Birth of Dirt: The Origins of Mountain Biking (and maybe more, this is an old blurb).
https://www.mechanischehirngespinnst...of_suntour.pdf
Nugget samples:
"SunTour hosted three focus group meetings at the 1985 U.S. bike show. Each group had about twenty bike dealers. SunTour asked the dealers what they thought of Shimano's indexed shifting. The consensus response was that it was too complicated and too expensive and it would just be another Shimano fad. Based on this advice, SunTour decided that responding to Shimano SIS could be postponed for a year."
Because we like threads with pictures
https://www.mechanischehirngespinnst...of_suntour.pdf
Nugget samples:
"SunTour hosted three focus group meetings at the 1985 U.S. bike show. Each group had about twenty bike dealers. SunTour asked the dealers what they thought of Shimano's indexed shifting. The consensus response was that it was too complicated and too expensive and it would just be another Shimano fad. Based on this advice, SunTour decided that responding to Shimano SIS could be postponed for a year."
Because we like threads with pictures
#11
Newbie
Our very own late pcb, Paul Brodek was there at SunTour as it unfolded.
Here's the episode of The Outspoken Cyclist when he tells about it, great stuff.
https://outspokencyclist.com/tag/paul-brodek/
Here's the episode of The Outspoken Cyclist when he tells about it, great stuff.
https://outspokencyclist.com/tag/paul-brodek/
Scanfile: https://www.rennrad-news.de/forum/at...um-pdf.845655/
A Japanese blogger also has uploaded my file on his blog, accompanied by his own words, which Deepl translates as follows:
Suntour, the end of the journey
Various people have written about the demise of the SunTour in various places (although there is already a definitive book, Sunset for SunTour by Frank J. Berto, presented at the 9th International Cycling History Conference in Ottawa, Canada, in 1998). I dare to write about it here.
JASCA, JBM, JEX Group
Shimano, founded in 1921, and Maeda Kogyo, founded in 1922, both started out producing freewheels, and both began producing transmissions [derailleurs] after the war. Both companies were late starters as transmission manufacturers, but after a period of elimination, Shimano and Maeda were the only two companies left in Japan.
In the early 1960s, when Japan entered a period of rapid economic growth, both companies were members of the JASCA (Japan Sports Cycle Association) group, but as early as the end of the 1960s, the two groups split off into the JBM (Japan Bicycle Manufacturers) group led by Shimano and the JEX (Japan Bicycle Parts Manufacturers Group for Export Promotion) group led by Maeda Kogyo.
Formation of the Suntour Coalition
It was in the mid-1970s that the two companies made a business decision that divided their fortunes.
At that time, Shimano made a major shift to a "component" strategy that has continued to the present day. At first, it was thought that Shimano was focused on the appearance of being a comprehensive parts manufacturer in the vein of Campagnolo's "Gruppo," but it was by no means confined to that level. This strategy helped to "optimize parts development" and (in addition to AX and a few other failures) led to innovations such as FF, PPS, UG, SIS, HG, STI, etc., and also firmly established "customer retention".
Maeda Kogyo, being a freelancer and transmission [derailleur] maker, focused on coexistence and co-prosperity with the JEX Group companies, and decided to counter Shimano's component strategy by using a common brand within the JEX Group...the "Suntour Alliance". (At any rate, it was not easy for a company of Maeda's size to transform itself into a comprehensive parts manufacturer. For example, in the mid-1980s, when Maeda was at its peak, Shimano and Maeda had a threefold difference in the number of employees, a fourfold difference in sales, and a tenfold difference in the number of development personnel.)
Nevertheless, the gap between Shimano and Suntour was not yet decisive, and Suntour was still fighting a more than even battle in terms of quality, if not quantity, and had about 10 years to make a decisive difference.
Fighting in the North American Market
The 10-speed bicycle boom that began in North America in the early 1970s gave Japanese manufacturers an opportunity to make inroads into the North American market, where European parts alone were in short supply. Shimano and Suntour, with their inexpensive, high-performance products, were able to eliminate the European manufacturers and achieve oligopoly in the low and mid-priced segment of the market. From then on, the huge North American market became the "battleground" for the two companies, more important than the domestic market.
At the height of Maeda's success in 1982, Shimano and Suntour had a 30% and 60% share of the North American market for low and mid-priced models, respectively. (In the domestic market, the relationship was the exact opposite, with Shimano at 70% and Suntour at 30%.)
In the mid-1980s, the expiration of Maeda's slanted parallelogram patent, the rapid growth of the MTB market, the emergence of SIS, and the rapid appreciation of the yen due to the Plaza Accord greatly affected the power relationship between the two companies. Maeda Kogyo failed to respond appropriately to these changes.
In 1986, Shimano's share of the North American market was reversed for the first time, with Shimano at 50% and Suntour at 40%. Suntour continued to lose market share.
Even though everyone in Japan was enjoying an unprecedented economic boom under the bubble economy, Maeda was getting poorer and poorer year by year.
Under the Mory Industries Regime
In the 1990s, Maeda Kogyo's finances were squeezed by a large amount of bad inventory, and the company's business finally became untenable. In October 1991, Mory Industries, whose main business was the manufacture of stainless steel pipes (known in the Kansai region for its "Kirakira Pole" stainless steel clothes-drying poles), came to Maeda Kogyo's rescue.
In fact, the year before, Mory Kogyo had already begun providing management support to Sakae Rinko, a member of the Suntour Coalition, and soon after extended a helping hand to Maeda Kogyo, a member of the Coalition's "community of fate". Mory Industries, in the midst of a bubble economy, was looking for ways to spend money (laughs).
Maeda Kogyo, which had come to life with the introduction of funds from Mory Industries, challenged the 1992 sales season with its "MD (microdrive)" in tow. (The MD was, to be fair, an excellent concept, and Shimano later introduced a similar product.) At the show, buyers responded favorably, but actual orders were far from what was expected, and Suntour only lost more market share.
In July 1993, Sakae Rinko changed its name to SR Suntour, and in October of the same year, Maeda Kogyo merged with Mory Industries subsidiary Mory Kinzoku to form Mory Suntour. Finally, Mory Industries decided to withdraw from the bicycle business, and in April 1995, sold SR Suntour and reverted the company name of Mory Suntour back to Mory Kinzoku, ending all business activities.
After going out of business...
SR Suntour was fortunately, shall we say fortunately... bought out (bought back) by "Daihiro Kobayashi," the second president of Sakae Rin Kogyo and the president of SR Suntour. Eirin Technology was established using Eirin's Taiwanese factory and re-launched the SR Suntour brand. Ironically, Rongwon Technology, which abandoned Japan and put down roots in Taiwan, has been able to continue its business in a stable manner.
On the other hand, not a few people approached Mori Kinzoku to take over Suntour's transmission-related production equipment that would have been no longer needed after the liquidation of the business, but all they got was the sad fact that it was all discarded as garbage when the company withdrew.
Various people have written about the demise of the SunTour in various places (although there is already a definitive book, Sunset for SunTour by Frank J. Berto, presented at the 9th International Cycling History Conference in Ottawa, Canada, in 1998). I dare to write about it here.
JASCA, JBM, JEX Group
Shimano, founded in 1921, and Maeda Kogyo, founded in 1922, both started out producing freewheels, and both began producing transmissions [derailleurs] after the war. Both companies were late starters as transmission manufacturers, but after a period of elimination, Shimano and Maeda were the only two companies left in Japan.
In the early 1960s, when Japan entered a period of rapid economic growth, both companies were members of the JASCA (Japan Sports Cycle Association) group, but as early as the end of the 1960s, the two groups split off into the JBM (Japan Bicycle Manufacturers) group led by Shimano and the JEX (Japan Bicycle Parts Manufacturers Group for Export Promotion) group led by Maeda Kogyo.
Formation of the Suntour Coalition
It was in the mid-1970s that the two companies made a business decision that divided their fortunes.
At that time, Shimano made a major shift to a "component" strategy that has continued to the present day. At first, it was thought that Shimano was focused on the appearance of being a comprehensive parts manufacturer in the vein of Campagnolo's "Gruppo," but it was by no means confined to that level. This strategy helped to "optimize parts development" and (in addition to AX and a few other failures) led to innovations such as FF, PPS, UG, SIS, HG, STI, etc., and also firmly established "customer retention".
Maeda Kogyo, being a freelancer and transmission [derailleur] maker, focused on coexistence and co-prosperity with the JEX Group companies, and decided to counter Shimano's component strategy by using a common brand within the JEX Group...the "Suntour Alliance". (At any rate, it was not easy for a company of Maeda's size to transform itself into a comprehensive parts manufacturer. For example, in the mid-1980s, when Maeda was at its peak, Shimano and Maeda had a threefold difference in the number of employees, a fourfold difference in sales, and a tenfold difference in the number of development personnel.)
Nevertheless, the gap between Shimano and Suntour was not yet decisive, and Suntour was still fighting a more than even battle in terms of quality, if not quantity, and had about 10 years to make a decisive difference.
Fighting in the North American Market
The 10-speed bicycle boom that began in North America in the early 1970s gave Japanese manufacturers an opportunity to make inroads into the North American market, where European parts alone were in short supply. Shimano and Suntour, with their inexpensive, high-performance products, were able to eliminate the European manufacturers and achieve oligopoly in the low and mid-priced segment of the market. From then on, the huge North American market became the "battleground" for the two companies, more important than the domestic market.
At the height of Maeda's success in 1982, Shimano and Suntour had a 30% and 60% share of the North American market for low and mid-priced models, respectively. (In the domestic market, the relationship was the exact opposite, with Shimano at 70% and Suntour at 30%.)
In the mid-1980s, the expiration of Maeda's slanted parallelogram patent, the rapid growth of the MTB market, the emergence of SIS, and the rapid appreciation of the yen due to the Plaza Accord greatly affected the power relationship between the two companies. Maeda Kogyo failed to respond appropriately to these changes.
In 1986, Shimano's share of the North American market was reversed for the first time, with Shimano at 50% and Suntour at 40%. Suntour continued to lose market share.
Even though everyone in Japan was enjoying an unprecedented economic boom under the bubble economy, Maeda was getting poorer and poorer year by year.
Under the Mory Industries Regime
In the 1990s, Maeda Kogyo's finances were squeezed by a large amount of bad inventory, and the company's business finally became untenable. In October 1991, Mory Industries, whose main business was the manufacture of stainless steel pipes (known in the Kansai region for its "Kirakira Pole" stainless steel clothes-drying poles), came to Maeda Kogyo's rescue.
In fact, the year before, Mory Kogyo had already begun providing management support to Sakae Rinko, a member of the Suntour Coalition, and soon after extended a helping hand to Maeda Kogyo, a member of the Coalition's "community of fate". Mory Industries, in the midst of a bubble economy, was looking for ways to spend money (laughs).
Maeda Kogyo, which had come to life with the introduction of funds from Mory Industries, challenged the 1992 sales season with its "MD (microdrive)" in tow. (The MD was, to be fair, an excellent concept, and Shimano later introduced a similar product.) At the show, buyers responded favorably, but actual orders were far from what was expected, and Suntour only lost more market share.
In July 1993, Sakae Rinko changed its name to SR Suntour, and in October of the same year, Maeda Kogyo merged with Mory Industries subsidiary Mory Kinzoku to form Mory Suntour. Finally, Mory Industries decided to withdraw from the bicycle business, and in April 1995, sold SR Suntour and reverted the company name of Mory Suntour back to Mory Kinzoku, ending all business activities.
After going out of business...
SR Suntour was fortunately, shall we say fortunately... bought out (bought back) by "Daihiro Kobayashi," the second president of Sakae Rin Kogyo and the president of SR Suntour. Eirin Technology was established using Eirin's Taiwanese factory and re-launched the SR Suntour brand. Ironically, Rongwon Technology, which abandoned Japan and put down roots in Taiwan, has been able to continue its business in a stable manner.
On the other hand, not a few people approached Mori Kinzoku to take over Suntour's transmission-related production equipment that would have been no longer needed after the liquidation of the business, but all they got was the sad fact that it was all discarded as garbage when the company withdrew.
Last edited by HeikoS69; 07-12-23 at 03:56 AM.
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#12
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I've got a whole box full of old & new Suntour shifters & derailleurs. The NOS Suntour thumb shifters I got are pretty cool. Work with just about anything with upright bars. Don't know about the derailleurs though. They're old technology. Mostly six speed stuff. They stay in the corner of the spare parts box. Don't know what I'm gonna do with them. I keep getting old 6 speed stuff spaced at 126mm and converting it to 7 speed Shimano trigger shifter. Take the Suntour stuff off & toss it into the spare parts bin. Oh well. Be good. Have fun.
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#13
feros ferio
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Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
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The only reason I have Campag. on the Capos and the Bianchi is to keep things authentic. I greatly prefer SunTour, everything from the world's best thumbies and barcons to rear derailleurs. (I don't do indexing because I never saw any real benefit, and I run my indexed shifters in friction mode.)
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
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#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
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I've got a Campy Rally that I scored with a basket-case bike a while back and I've had it in mind to put it on my Holdsworth Pro, to do the whole Holdsworth/Campagnolo thing, but..... I just can't bring myself to give up the 1st gen Cyclone I've got on the bike!
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#15
Newbie
That Paul Brodek interview is golden. "If it didn't shift, it didn't sell." Wow.
The peculier thing is, if Shimano had it's index system all locked up with patents, then really how could Suntour have responded any differently? How did Campy deal with this?
The peculier thing is, if Shimano had it's index system all locked up with patents, then really how could Suntour have responded any differently? How did Campy deal with this?
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#16
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European and many serious cyclists were very slow to adopt index shifting so Campy had some time to make the change. Suntour did not have the same global following
#17
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
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The demise of Suntour has been well documented, and dovetails nicely with [MENTION=566038]Portlandjim[/MENTION]'s also well documented story of how Shimano cleaned Campy's clock.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#18
Senior Member
The late Paul Brodek provided an addendum to Berto's "Sunset for Suntour" article. This link is to a copy of Berto's article that includes Brodek's addendum. IMO Brodek's addendum is excellent as well.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...G&opi=89978449
Sorry for the length of the link above. It's from a Google search, which for some reason obscures the original by including a bunch of Google-internal code when you copy the link from the search results. I don't have the time or patience today to try and recover the original link by removing Google's obscuring additions.
Be advised that the original link is to a PDF file, and is nonsecure HTTP. This may cause security warnings and/or other problems on some browsers.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...G&opi=89978449
Sorry for the length of the link above. It's from a Google search, which for some reason obscures the original by including a bunch of Google-internal code when you copy the link from the search results. I don't have the time or patience today to try and recover the original link by removing Google's obscuring additions.
Be advised that the original link is to a PDF file, and is nonsecure HTTP. This may cause security warnings and/or other problems on some browsers.
#19
Newbie
The late Paul Brodek provided an addendum to Berto's "Sunset for Suntour" article. This link is to a copy of Berto's article that includes Brodek's addendum. IMO Brodek's addendum is excellent as well.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...G&opi=89978449
Sorry for the length of the link above. It's from a Google search, which for some reason obscures the original by including a bunch of Google-internal code when you copy the link from the search results. I don't have the time or patience today to try and recover the original link by removing Google's obscuring additions.
Be advised that the original link is to a PDF file, and is nonsecure HTTP. This may cause security warnings and/or other problems on some browsers.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...G&opi=89978449
Sorry for the length of the link above. It's from a Google search, which for some reason obscures the original by including a bunch of Google-internal code when you copy the link from the search results. I don't have the time or patience today to try and recover the original link by removing Google's obscuring additions.
Be advised that the original link is to a PDF file, and is nonsecure HTTP. This may cause security warnings and/or other problems on some browsers.
https://www.rennrad-news.de/forum/th...4/post-4818231
That is a secure server, you only get cookie questions and are asked whether you accept ads or prefer ad free page (for Euro 2,99/month).
The Japanese blogger obviously also downloaded the file and re-uploaded it on his blog....
Google seems to only show one source for my file, which had been my upload on the German forum before, but meanwhile has switched to the Japanese copy.
See also my yesterdays post here in this thread.
Last edited by HeikoS69; 07-12-23 at 04:12 AM.
#20
Senior Member
Hondo, that's the file I made and posted it originally here:
https://www.rennrad-news.de/forum/th...4/post-4818231
That is a secure server, you only get cookie questions and are asked whether you accept ads or prefer ad free page (for Euro 2,99/month).
The Japanese blogger obviously also downloaded the file and re-uploaded it on his blog....
Google seems to only show one source for my file, which had been my upload on the German forum before, but meanwhile has switched to the Japanese copy.
See also my yesterdays post here in this thread.
https://www.rennrad-news.de/forum/th...4/post-4818231
That is a secure server, you only get cookie questions and are asked whether you accept ads or prefer ad free page (for Euro 2,99/month).
The Japanese blogger obviously also downloaded the file and re-uploaded it on his blog....
Google seems to only show one source for my file, which had been my upload on the German forum before, but meanwhile has switched to the Japanese copy.
See also my yesterdays post here in this thread.
Thanks for creating that annotated edition of "Sunset for Suntour". Paul Brodek's addendum is certainly worth reading for the additional background it provides.
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#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,366
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
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I got serious about cycling in 1985. The Shimano Dura Ace group I first laid eyes on in the bike shop was mesmerizing in its polish and appearance. I couldn't afford it, but I equipped my Paramount with 600 EX SIS when it came out, and upgraded the parts to Dura Ace over the years.
Suntour was always looked at as a runner-up consolation prize. It pretty much never entered the discussion with my shop-mechanic co-workers, when discussing top-level components. Campy was still well-respected, but we couldn't afford that, even at cost (the shop owner's son eventually was able to equip his Bottechia with C-Record). But in general, if you wanted high-end racing parts, and couldn't afford Campy, you went with Dura Ace.
Sun...who?
Suntour was always looked at as a runner-up consolation prize. It pretty much never entered the discussion with my shop-mechanic co-workers, when discussing top-level components. Campy was still well-respected, but we couldn't afford that, even at cost (the shop owner's son eventually was able to equip his Bottechia with C-Record). But in general, if you wanted high-end racing parts, and couldn't afford Campy, you went with Dura Ace.
Sun...who?
#22
I don't know.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: South Meriden, CT
Posts: 2,217
Bikes: '90 B'stone RB-1, '92 B'stone RB-2, '89 SuperGo Access Comp, '03 Access 69er, '23 Trek 520, '14 Ritchey Road Logic, '09 Kestrel Evoke, '08 Windsor Tourist, '17 Surly Wednesday, '89 Centurion Accordo, '15 CruX, '17 Ridley X-Night, '89 Marinoni
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as a broke USCF racer in the mid 80s to early 90s, Suntour was all I could afford. Shops in my area had boxes of take-offs that they sold me for cheap. No one in my racing/training circles wanted Suntour. I would have sawed off my right arm for a complete Shimano 600 groupset. My RB-1 came with a 7 spd click shift Suntour der. and shifters (not the full group, name escapes memory right now, GPX?) that worked reasonably well.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,366
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
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This sort of summarized the conclusions of the Suntour index shifting component reviews in the magazines. It wasn't exactly a glowing endorsement, compared to what was written about Dura Ace/600EX.
Last edited by smd4; 07-12-23 at 09:09 AM.
#24
Cantilever believer
On my racing team in 1981-1983, Campy was held in high regard, but a lot of envy was expended for the guys who had all-Suntour Superbe drivetrains (some of them on Nishiki Superbe bicycles). My Suntour V derailleur (or was it VX?) got little respect, but it did its job well under difficult circumstances, and that's what I needed (and could afford) at the time.
__________________
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
#25
Senior Member
Back when I cared about such things, one of the main attractions of Campagnolo was STABILITY. Thankfully, they did not change their models every year and provided spare parts at rational prices.
The Japanese churned and churned the market and eventually burned. It was a long time ago I gave up caring what they did or what their latest Earth-shattering "innovation" or "revolution" was.
Although I tried some of the Japanese derailleurs and even a Dura Ace brake set, I always ended up back with my Nuovo Record and use it to this day.
As I type this, my thinking runs along the lines of, "Who cares, they did it to themselves?"
The Japanese churned and churned the market and eventually burned. It was a long time ago I gave up caring what they did or what their latest Earth-shattering "innovation" or "revolution" was.
Although I tried some of the Japanese derailleurs and even a Dura Ace brake set, I always ended up back with my Nuovo Record and use it to this day.
As I type this, my thinking runs along the lines of, "Who cares, they did it to themselves?"