Doomrider74

Hi folks.

I started a thread a few weeks ago about Hunt wheels but I thought I'd start a new one that opens it up to a wider spectrum of options, plus some background info.

I have a 2021 Specialized Tarmac SL6 Sport, with 105 groupo, all stock. The wheels are DT Swiss R470db disc on 105 hubs with Spesh Turbo Pro 26mm OEM tires.

I am a club rider who does everything, although I am a climber at heart: that's what I enjoy. However, as I am fairly lightweight (65kg), I struggle on the fast flats and "power" sections.

In essence, I am looking for a new set of wheels that will not be a hindrance on long, 12km/7.5% climbs, but will also have an aero benefit on the flatter rides.

The first debate I'm having is how heavy my current wheels are: I dont have any scales, so does anyone know any stats for these?

As far as weight goes, I can't see me really saving that much, perhaps 100-200g, and I could probably achieve that by switching from butyl tubes to latex or Tubulitos, so is aero the way to go?

What wheel/tube/tire combos would you recommend?

Thanks for reading

SoSmellyAir

I am your opposite: a chubby solo rider who struggles on climbs. If you end up going with TPU tubes, these can be had at a far more reasonable cost than Tubolitos (if you buy multiple):

Pirelli Pzero SmarTube Tube 35 Gram Presta Length: 60mm 700C 23-32C – Bike Closet

urbanknight

For "fast flats", aero and rolling resistance are the main concerns. If it's not horrifically windy all the time where you ride, get some 50-60mm deep carbon rims with a low spoke count (since you're lightweight). Those specs should still come in at least 200g less than your current wheelset (which I estimate are around 1800g without tape/tube/tire) and will be much more aero. Get nicer bearings if you want, and make sure to get a tire with low rolling resistance on it, like the Continental GP5000.

As for tubes (assuming you're not interested in going tubeless, which you totally could since you're buying new wheels and tires), I believe the main advantage to latex tubes is actually a lower rolling resistance, but the slight weight advantage doesn't hurt either.

msu2001la

In terms of weights:

Specialized Turbo Pros are 250g/ea = 500g.
Regular butyl tubes are 100g ea = 200g.
According to Pro Wheel Builder dot com, DT Swiss R470 with Shimano 105 hubs is around 1860g.
That's 2,560g.

A mid-depth average cost 45mm carbon wheel is going to be around 1500g. So this would save the OP 360g. This will feel lighter, but probably doesn't result in any measurable speed increase on a 7.5% climb. Unless the OP is regularly racing the clock on this climb I doubt there would be any noticeable difference uphill. The 45mm depth will shave some watts at speed, so aero is definitely king here.

In terms of rolling resistance, the Specialized Turbo Pro is a pretty fast rolling tire. I would be surprised if the GP 5000 was noticeably faster - maybe 1-2 watts at most.

Iride01 

I have pretty much the same wheels. I don't think they are a hinderance to my speed. And they are aero, but certainly not a deep section aero. Weight wise you won't be any faster and I don't think the aero of a deeper section will be more help either.

You getting down in the drops and staying aero will probably benefit you more. Ride often and ride far. If you only do a weekly group ride you'll always suffer.

I didn't like the Specialized tires. They rode okay, but I was always getting flats on them. I switched back to GP5000's and went from 2 flats in 300 miles to 2 flats in 5000 miles. Riding the same routes. Don't remember which exact Specialized tire that was. Turbo Cottons I think.

If you get to the point where you need to feel the road better for high speed turns and such, then you might really benefit from the lighter carbon wheelsets.

msu2001la

In terms of aero gains, I'd agree that wheels are lower on the list in "bang for the buck". Aero jerseys/skin suits, helmets and riding position have bigger impacts, for sure.

That said, individual marginal gains start to add up, so combining that jersey/helmet with some aero wheels makes sense. Plus they look awesome and make cool noises.

chaadster

I say get both weight savings and more aero. Lϊn Hyper D45 from Winspace are 47/54mm (f/r) deep, 1421g, and $1600 shipped. If your current wheels are 1860g, that’s 14g shy of a pound difference, so running TPU tubes would make it over a pound of weight saved. Pro’s Closet has a pair the R470 with 105 listed at a portly 1940g, so the weight savings could be huge, and stepping up from 23mm deep to Hyper 47/54mm would definitely help you carry speed.

I think that would be a tremendous upgrade, one which you could derive benefit from in any riding scenario. Whether you’d want to conserve energy or make a dash for a personal best, those Hypers will be there for you, allowing you to get the most out of your effort.

Doomrider74

Thanks for the input.

Being aero with my body is something I am also working on, so Im not thinking the wheels will be a miracle panacea.

With regard to "riding often": I'm already riding 60km/day to work, plus 120km club rides at the weekend, so that has been a great help.

As I said, I'm not looking for the wheels to solve everything, just to be a better ride than I currently have.

Doomrider74

Iride01 

Better ride is in the tires and tubes or tubeless. And in the bike frame which you can't do much about. Better feel for the road is in the rims/wheels. Carbon probably giving you the best feel for the road. But that's just from what I've read since I've never owned a pair and ridden on them other than a brief moment or two on bikes of others.

Maybe a deeper section wheel will give you more energy savings on the long ride that you can convert to more speed during the ride. I wouldn't worry about the difference in alloy or carbon rims until I was ready to pay for a really good pair of carbon rims. So don't necessarily rule out alloy rims if you are going to shop for new wheels.

How close to the conditions of your group ride is the speed and effort of your commuting? But if you are doing all that riding now, depending on how long you've been at it your expectation might just be a little more than what your current fitness is. You'll get there if you stay at it and are patient. But do be looking at what the others are riding in that group. That might give you some ideas if your equipment is holding you back or not. Look for their weight saving places and their aero or not bikes and wheels and other stuff.

msu2001la

Just a reminder - the OP's intent is pretty clear: "I am looking for a new set of wheels".
Some of the responses and advice in this thread seem to have strayed pretty far from the questions being asked:

1. How much do my current wheels weigh? (Answer - around 1900g)
2. Is aero the way to go? Yes. I don't think the OP would see any benefits from weight savings alone (which is the only thing that would be achieved by buying a new alloy wheel set). The weight savings alone is going to result in very minimal gains in terms of climbing performance and will have no effect on the flats/power sections. Also, it was noted above that most carbon aero wheels will still be lighter than the stock set.
3. What wheel/tube/tire combos would you recommend? No budget has been given, but I would go with a mid-depth carbon wheel around 45mm-55mm. The Lϊn Hyper D45 from Winspace recommended above seems like a great option. I'd also throw Zipp 303S into the mix, but only if the OP is committed to tubeless. I also think options from Light Bicycle should be considered. Specialized Roval wheels look solid as well. In terms of tires, GP 5000 is the gold standard for road tires these days but there are a few other good options as well. Tubes? I'd recommend tubeless, but if you want to try TPU's they seem like a good option.

Without a budget, it's going to be hard for anyone to make a strong recommendation on wheels.

Doomrider74

Thanks for focusing on the specific questions.

I deliberately left out the budget because I am flexible there: I have a few friends who work in bike shops who will be able to get wheels at staff discounts, so the street price isnt necessarily the deciding factor. Having said that, I want to weigh up all options, including the cheaper end (Light Bicycle, Hunt etc), so left out the budget.

If it helps, the figure I have in my head is around $2K CAD, but that could be +/- 500 or so, depending on what works best for me.

Doomrider74

When I said "better ride" I was talking about the wheels, tubes and tires as a whole package, and in that I include weight (agility, acceleration), aero and comfort.

As far as other club riders are concerned: they're all going deep section carbon.

tFUnK

I haven't really noticed deep wheels making me any faster (rode 27mm and shallower alloys and 32, 38, 45, 55, and 60/88mm carbons). It's hard to do controlled tests in the real world and I also don't ride with a power meter, but objectively maybe the 55 and 60/88s were slightly faster? But really all I felt subjectively was the weight of the heavy 60/88s.

But if I were to recommend something (grain of salt as I'm just a stranger on the Internet) I would go with something 50-60mm deep and <=1500g and throw on some TPU tubes. People say aero is the most important to speed and I don't doubt that but subjectively what I feel when I ride is the rotational weight if there is a lot of stop and go, or random surges/attacks, so I think getting as light a set of wheels as you can that's still reasonably deep will be something you will notice.

SoSmellyAir

This has always been the pattern on BF since I joined:

1. Question about buying new (usually CF) wheels.
2. People respond that maintaining an aero riding position and training improve performance much more than new wheels.
3. Thread devolves into debates between (a) aero vs. lightweight; (b) tubes vs. tubeless; and (c) hooked vs. hookless.

And if the person asking the question in #1 has rim brakes, (b) and (c) in #3 above are replaced by an additional, concurrent debate about whether CF wheels will assplode during descents.

alcjphil

I am going to assume from this that you live somewhere in the Great White North. You might want to update the information you show to give an idea about where you live. For example, I say that I live in Montreal Quebec. I actually don't live in Montreal but in a suburb, but at least when I reply to a thread people have an idea about where I am coming from. I say this because local information can be very useful

Iride01 

It's also always the pattern that people want to get something to solve an issue that they may not solve with that purchase. So if we don't discuss it, then they might spend money and not fulfil their expectations.

Since the OP has taken part in the discussion and added more information, it's become more clear that the OP isn't just looking for a panacea for a fitness issue. So now we all can reason that maybe the OP will be helped by new wheels.

So nothing wrong IMO, in discussing whether the wheel change is the smarter thing at the moment.

alcjphil

Very well put, except that the OP did in fact provide a good description of their bike. Knowing where they live would be useful information that they did not provide. It appears that they live somewhere in Canada, but where? Knowing where someone lives, more or less is very useful so that BF members can provide useful local information

Doomrider74

I didn't think location was a big factor but, if it helps I'm in Vancouver.

Thanks all.

aliasfox

I went from ~1900g Vision Team 30s to 1417g Light Bicycle R45s laced to DT Swiss 240s. Saved a pound on the bike, and spinning up from a standing start (like a stoplight) feels much nicer. Cruising on flats feels more relaxed (less effort needed), but my average speed is inconsistent enough that I can only say "I think I'm faster, I think I'm faster." Thomas the Tank Engine or not, I like having the nicer wheels just for how they feel.

Three things for the OP to consider:
- How loud they want their freehub. The DT Swiss 240s are pretty buzzy, but two friends have very quiet Ultegra wheels - one in the C50, and the other in the C36 configuration
- How much they don't like crosswinds. The one with the 36mm rims complains even with those, but he has to ride across the Golden Gate Bridge every so often. I'm generally fine with my 45mm deep wheels, but I'm also heavy. If you are able to buy individual wheels, a mullet option (shallower in the front, deeper in the back) could be an option.
- Maybe less of an issue for a 65kg rider, but inner width might be worth paying attention to as well. Wider wheels (say, 19mm+) might allow you to run lower pressures, which might help out if you're hammering on poor road surfaces.

The Shimano Ultegra wheels could be another good option, especially if the OP doesn't like loud free hubs. They aren't going to be the best at anything, but are reasonably lightweight, have both tubed and tubeless compatibility (unlike the Zipps), and have smooth rolling ball bearings. If you go for Ultegras, I'd keep with the C50s unless you're very bothered by crosswinds.

Camilo

for the weight of your current wheels, just go to a store that sells fishing gear (Walmart, Fred Meyer, Target, etc. etc.) and buy a $30 digital fish scale. Or, go to a site like prowheelbuilder.com. If they sell the components that your wheel is built on, you can plug them into their custom wheel builder and it will give you a fairly accurate weight.

Doomrider74

I've narrowed it down to the following:

Hunt Aerodynamicist 44 (standard spokes)
Roval Alpinist CL II

The Hunts are more Aero, but the Rovals are lighter, but also more expensive.

Any thoughts on these sets?

Scratch that! Ive ordered the Hunts.

tFUnK

Either should be a noticable upgrade based on weight alone. That they are also more aero than the current setup is just an added bonus, so 👍

PeteHski

You got that back-to-front. Lower weight is the added bonus here.

bblair

We are about the same size and recently went with LightBicycle 45mm CF rims on DT Swiss hubs. Only been a month, but so far, great. Despite kvetching here and elsewhere, no, it is not difficult to mount tires. Tubed version, any way.

My decision tree:

Do I want them? Yes! Got to step 2.
Can I afford them? Also yes, go to step 3
Which ones? Heck, I agonized and studied for months over this one.
Buy wheels and get excited every time a big brown truck drives down my street.