Schreck83 

I just posted this in the Tandems section "Are your looking..." thread. Wondering if bulgie had a hand in building it BITD. Lots of photos, great condition.
https://buffalo.craigslist.org/bid/d...644459536.html

Robvolz 

what is the finned rear brake?

chain_whipped

That's a steal of a buy. Definitely is an early model and would put it near the top quality and ride among the classic and vintage tandems. McCready had this tubing made to his tandem specs from Ishiwata. Went out on a limb for it. Fillet brazed by some of the best. The few I've serviced (fully) were absolutely spot-on aligned. Fork crown is stout.

Think to recall the prefix and suffix letters denote the frame builder initials.
Other: Purportedly these early ones took on the moniker as Marathon but that had to be quickly shut up. Note the timeline, the Santana rock group and album carrying that name. The bikes font and logo art is classy handsome, too. Jan McC once told me whom created it but I've forgotten.

Other than the odd clocked cranks the OP example looks terrific. Appears some changes were done, just later stuff but nothing negative. The main ingredient is the wonderful frame and fork.
Also, these bikes love to roll on its original 27" hoops with the Phil hubs. They easily fit 1 1/4" width plus mudguards.

I don't need that tandem but if were close by, would grab it. Awesome fun introducing the more experienced cycling couples to tandem biking.

chain_whipped

Araya drum brake. The brake shoes were guaranteed for 100k miles.

bulgie 

Close, the brake is Arai, not related to the Araya company. Good brake, not powerful enough to use as your only rear brake but great as a drag brake for long downhills, to prevent heat build-up in the rim from the cantilever. You still need the canti for a quick stop. Weight shift to the front wheel while braking is less of a factor on tandems, so you do benefit from a strong rear brake.

The first Santanas to roll out had a crude braze-on on the left seatstay for a Shimano E-type "self-energizing" disk brake. Terrible brake, and attaching a disk brake only to the seatstay was a bad idea. Luckily the brake was so weak it never threatened to bend the stay!

I think all the ones I worked on had the stupid disk brake braze-on, so this one is probably from after my time there. I left in '79.
Though it's possible the dumb braze-on was removed on this frame, and the paint just touched up there, can't tell from the pic.
A bit later, Santana came out with their "Pac Man" braze on under the chainstay for the reaction arm of the Arai, allowing the wheel to drop out without having to undo the clamp, a nice quality-of-life improvement.

Arai drums are still sought-after by some tandemists, though disk brakes have made them somewhat obsolete. They're quite reliable.

Mark B

tcs

Got one just like that in the garage, purchased used in spring '83, except mine has factory-spec TA tandem cranks. I got the Arai and a Phil Wood disc for it. We campaigned it throughout Parts Unknown for 30 years. What I paid divided by the untold hours of joy makes it one of the greatest purchases of my life.

A 'steal'? Does anybody even want these things?

Darth Lefty 

About nine-ten years ago when I was shopping for a tandem there were a ton of old Santanas asking $1000. They all had 27" tires and full late-friction Suntour drivetrains. I ruled them out even though they were nice high-quality bikes because I wanted at least V brakes, an HG freehub, and SIS trigger shifters. I wound up with a late Burley which suited that requirement. But seeing such originally great bikes dying on the vine made me sad. For $400 2023 dollars with a patient willing stoker? And a shop inspection? maaaaaybe

bulgie 

Tandems are really hard to sell, and you take a big haircut from what you paid for it new. Santana being the big brand name does help, but modern bikes are better in important ways so one this old is a tough sell.

bikingshearer 

Personally, except for the very flattest of roads, I would not ride a tandem without a drum or disk drag brake. I have a Burley with an Arai drum brake, although it has been some years since I've ridden it. I weigh about 255lbs, and except when my then-8 year old son was my stoker, I have never had a captain-stoker combo that weighed less than 400lbs, and I have had several well in excess of 450lbs. Factor in the weight of the bike and I have captained a 500+ pound captain-stoker-bike combos on a number of occasions. (Can you say "48 spoke wheels"? I knew that you could.). I can tell you from experience that, without a drag brake on, that tandem accelerates at a frightening rate going downhill when I release the rim brakes (cantilevers). It is like Mark Cavendish turning on the afterburners at the end of a TdF stage. The drum brake doesn't really slow me down, but it sure makes me accelerate less quickly. It is a very important feature in my view, because it means I can feather my brakes (and thus dissipate some heat) without the bike acting like a drag racer on amphetamines. I am not exaggerating - that thing wants to break land speed records when the road heads downhill and I have a 200lb-plus stoker, and it wants to get up to terminal velocity right now. Since I don't, I very much want to have that Arai drum brake at my disposal. As a stopper, it ain't great. As a "set and forget" speed attenuator, it is just what the doctor ordered.

chain_whipped

Tandem segment certainly is leading the dismal and 'slowly grinding to a halt' entire industry.

No disrespect to those into it and have the means, but when one considers a new Santana with pricing $6,000 to exceeding $20,000 the old quality vintage ones can do everything as them less perhaps convenience of frame takedown for air transport.

They're also well worth chasing in a fairly close to ones sizing and give the tandem riding experience a good chance. How much is one really out in the worst case scenario? The OP example also has a nice lot of components if one wanted to part it out.

Peruano

Why is tolerating 27" wheels and friction shifting ok for your vintage single but seen as a non starter for a truely quality tandem. Santana''s first was a Sovreign and then they produced the Arriva which is what this one resembles. I bought one for $2k in 1985 and rode it hard until 2015 or so when my spouses double hip replacement made the mount/dismount a bit awkward as a team effort. The Arriva frame was used for many years even though the price went up as indexing and 700c features were added. The only caveat for a tandem is that you have to like your partner/captain/stoker. Give it a try and you might just find your spouse riding more frequently with you, and you will stay together. Noone will get left behind.

bulgie 

Counterpoint, don't let the lack of a drag brake keep you from trying out a tandem. Many people find them unnecessary, unwanted even.

Laurie and I are a little lighter but still a heavy team. (Well, she's trim, and I am fat). We've never wanted a drum or disk, happy with our two rim brakes. We have done many tandem rallies, a 4 (or was it 5) day stage race, tons of touring in steep mountains, have hit over 60 mph on two occasions and over 50 countless times. Tho not anymore now that we're old and breakable! I'm a downhill weenie now but I just ride the (rim) brakes to keep speed down, and we've never had a blow-off.

Most of the cases I have heard of, of tires blowing off from over-pressure and heat, are of the format "I knew a guy who once heard of a guy..." I think they're rather rare and usually attributable to some problem with the rim or tire. Yes the stakes are high; a blowout at speed could ruin your whole day. So please, if you die from taking my advice, don't sue me!

But as a tandem specialist for over 20 years and an avid tandem rider for longer than that, I think my knowledgebase is sufficient to make my own decision, and that has always been rim brakes only.

And I'm not the only one! I have seen tons of tandems, high-end, low-brow and everything in between with no drag brake, and used in the mountains, even fully loaded. Since this is C&V, I can use ancient bikes as examples: most of the classic French constructeur tandems like Herse & Singer came without drum. Yes the big ol' Maxicar drum was fitted to some of them, but a minority. Those drumless tandems were ridden all over the alps including with full camping gear, and tires weren't so good back then.


Thanks to Heiko Strömer for the scan. See his Flicker for a metric ton of excellent pics and scans in hi-res. It's the best C&V in all of Flickr (or the whole dang internet).

Mark B

tcs

If you remember the 70s with clarity, you didn't get everything the decade offered, but IIRC Santana's first tandem was just the Santana, with the old-school Marathon frame (as imaged in post no. 1). When the lower-cost Arriva debuted with the direct internal frame and more economical components, the original became the Sovereign.

tcs

90º out of phase, captain's cranks leading. Not uncommon back in the day. See pages 94-96 of The Tandem Scoop by John Schubert (1993).

tcs

...and today's quality 6-speed freewheels.

bikingshearer 

No, you absolutely have to do it my way! Everyone has to do everything my way, damn it!

Yes, that is a joke. I'm all about YMMV.

I have some experience captaining a tandem, you have a lot of experience captaining a tandem. I certainly am not going to tell you how to captain a tandem any more than I am going to tell you to build a frame.

I have seen crazy-ass tandem teams do amazing things sans drag brake (do the names "Otis Guy" and "Joe Breeze" ring any bells?). But for me, I want that security blanket. If I have a drag brake and don't want to use it, I can always leave it off. If I do want a drag brake and don't have one . . . well, let's say I am an unhappy (and probably scared sh*tless) camper.

I have never hit 60mph on a tandem (or a single, for that matter). I probably have not hit 50 on a tandem (twice on a single that I am aware of), but if so it was not at all often - my built in ChickenMeter (Pat. Pending) kicks in before that, and the older I get, the sooner it kicks in. I admire anyone's ability to feel comfortable at those speeds. I don't, So I'll keep my drag brake, you do without one with my blessing (like you need that) and we'll both be happy.

Peruano

A good way to blow out the knees of the captain. Our pedals went to synch soon after we realized that coordination was most essential when starting from a dead stop.

bulgie 

Rather hyperbolic statement IMHO. Thousands of tandem teams have used out of phase and I never once heard of a blown out knee attributed to it. Almost all Santanas went out that way in the early years when I worked there, so I am familiar with the pros and cons.

The main reason Laurie and I ride in-phase is an ineffable "teamness". Can't quite describe it but we prefer it.

Starting from a dead stop is easier on a tandem than on a single, because the stoker can be fully clipped in while cappy still has a foot down. Stokie can start applying torque while cappy is still getting his "down" foot onto the pedal. A small or weak stoker may not be able to get a fat cap'n moving much, but it's at least a little help that you don't get on a single.

Robvolz 

we say, "1, 2, 3…go" and the capt's crank is 5 min ahead of the stoker.

This last weekend we ran out of RPMs on the Colnago tandem heading down the closed freeway for the bridge pedal. Guy behind me flashed "55" with his hands. He had a computer and we passed him like he was standing in line at Trader Joe's and the person getting checked out says, "Oops, I need one more thing."

Be bought a 2nd gen Phil Wood disc brake. Haven't installed it yet as we figure out where/who should control it.

Bill (Tim to me for some reason) is in town. I'll show him the ad to get the scoop on this bike.

Robert

Peruano

somewhat hyperbolic but notice that the vast majority of tandems that started with out of synch pedals were switched to synchronized. Call it togetherness if you want but tandems work better that way and my knee discomfort was lessened.
BTW I liked te drum brake too.

downtube42

Looks lovely. I'd be sorely tempted to buy that, if it were on the west coast.

Our Arriva went to a bike co-op when we moved out of state, so this would be full circle.

bulgie 

Yeah that's for sure. The advantages of out-of-phase are kinda theoretical, like increased life or reduced wear on drivetrain components, who's going to notice that? What you do notice is whether you just like it or not.

I think McCready may have chosen 90° out of phase partly just to differentiate his product. Though he did seem to actually like it. I wonder if he stuck with it after it wasn't fashionable anymore — anyone know? I haven't ridden with him since '79.