Are "KILL Wood" hubs a thing?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 913
Bikes: 1964(?) Frejus Tour de France, 1967(?) Dawes Double Blue, 1979 Trek 710, 1982 Claud Butler Dalesman, 1983 Schwinn Paramount Elite, 2014 Brompton, maybe a couple more
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked 680 Times
in
332 Posts
Are "KILL Wood" hubs a thing?
I bought a funky 650(B) wheelset from the co-op. The front hub appears to have "KILL Wood" written in ephemeral red script.
Anybody have any idea what these are?
Anybody have any idea what these are?
Likes For albrt:
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,197
Mentioned: 483 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3825 Post(s)
Liked 6,791 Times
in
2,638 Posts
That’s one funky lacing pattern. Not sure Phil Wood would approve.
Likes For nlerner:
#3
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,705
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1054 Post(s)
Liked 2,602 Times
in
1,086 Posts
Re: the spoke pattern - Yeeeaaaahhh, no. That spoke pattern may be the bee's knees, but I doubt it. If it was, some pro mechanic would have figured it out not less than 75 years ago. I sure as heck will not be the one to try it out. With apologies to Will Rogers, that is one electric fence I do not need to pee on myself.
I can't be sure , but that looks like a Phil Wood hub that somebody decided to have some "fun" with.
I can't be sure , but that looks like a Phil Wood hub that somebody decided to have some "fun" with.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
#4
Cantilever believer
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,632
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 557 Post(s)
Liked 1,926 Times
in
865 Posts
Just in time for the Halloween displays at the big box stores, the macabre BikeForums postings start ramping up...
Does look like a decent set of hubs, though.
Does look like a decent set of hubs, though.
__________________
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,923
Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.
Mentioned: 194 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 632 Times
in
357 Posts
The bends in those spokes make my eyes hurt.
Looks like an early generation Phil Wood hub that somebody scribbled on. I have a set like that, sans scribbles.
Looks like an early generation Phil Wood hub that somebody scribbled on. I have a set like that, sans scribbles.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
#6
Veteran, Pacifist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 13,383
Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?
Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3920 Post(s)
Liked 4,893 Times
in
2,256 Posts
I think it is funny as heck!! Kill Wood.
I've got Phil on my red tandem. Not in the spoke pattern pictured above.
The real thing.
I've got Phil on my red tandem. Not in the spoke pattern pictured above.
The real thing.
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Last edited by Wildwood; 09-07-23 at 11:43 PM.
#7
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,907
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 2,226 Times
in
976 Posts
The spoke pattern looks like on the spaghetti string models for the latest Atlantic hurricane.
The change to "Kill" from "Phil" is rather clever. The hub should be re-laced to a beech-wood rim.
The change to "Kill" from "Phil" is rather clever. The hub should be re-laced to a beech-wood rim.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Likes For pastorbobnlnh:
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,593
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1617 Post(s)
Liked 2,230 Times
in
1,112 Posts
How many different length spokes were required for that pattern?
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
Likes For SJX426:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,900
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1869 Post(s)
Liked 666 Times
in
508 Posts
I don't see the point of trying lacings like that.
#10
Senior Member
Get a strip of leather and make a hub shiner. Put Simichrome on it and ride for a few weeks. Kill Phil will be dead and gone
__________________
"It's a fine line between absolute genius and sheer stupidity"
"It's a fine line between absolute genius and sheer stupidity"
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,922
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3598 Post(s)
Liked 3,016 Times
in
1,824 Posts
Is the body of that hub rusting?? Doesn't look like a quality hub to me.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,707
Bikes: '38 Schwinn New World, ’69 Peugeot PX-10, '72 Peugeot PX-10, ‘7? Valgan, '78 Raleigh Comp GS, ’79 Holdsworth Pro, ’80 Peugeot TH-8 tandem, '87 Trek 400T, ‘7? Raleigh Sports, ‘7? Raleigh Superbe, ‘6? Hercules
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked 1,621 Times
in
773 Posts
Likes For ehcoplex:
#13
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,616
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1453 Post(s)
Liked 1,079 Times
in
800 Posts
For decades they used practically the same high-grade cartridge bearings sourced from a Japanese bearing supplier (Nachi, or so said the scuttlebutt) so these early models spin just like today's hubs (or so says me).
+1 that running a leather strap polisher does the trick and
+2 that lacing pattern is just a goof
Likes For unworthy1:
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 913
Bikes: 1964(?) Frejus Tour de France, 1967(?) Dawes Double Blue, 1979 Trek 710, 1982 Claud Butler Dalesman, 1983 Schwinn Paramount Elite, 2014 Brompton, maybe a couple more
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked 680 Times
in
332 Posts
Thanks for the knowledge everybody. I'll probably put these on the intended bike to see how they fit. If they seem like they'll work out then I'll rebuild with new spokes.
#15
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,907
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 2,226 Times
in
976 Posts
My Phil front hub from about 1983 looks very similar to the OP's hub. It's a 48-spoke hub so exceedingly difficult to get my fingers in there to polish off the rust. Has anyone tried Evaporrust on a Phil in this condition?
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#16
seńor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,662
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3921 Post(s)
Liked 6,558 Times
in
3,251 Posts
Likes For SurferRosa:
#17
Cantilever believer
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,632
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 557 Post(s)
Liked 1,926 Times
in
865 Posts
You go down for what you thought would be a routine shift at the co-op, and next thing it's a Tarantino movie...
__________________
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Likes For RCMoeur:
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,834 Times
in
1,998 Posts
I bought a Carlsbad twin plate GC with twisted spoke pattern wheels. Actually advertised on the BF C&V for sale forum.
There was a “pro” shop in Newport Beach decades ago promoting them.
silly.
I bought the bike and asked the seller to remove the freewheel and cut the wheels apart to get it into a smaller box and reduce the shipping.
There was a “pro” shop in Newport Beach decades ago promoting them.
silly.
I bought the bike and asked the seller to remove the freewheel and cut the wheels apart to get it into a smaller box and reduce the shipping.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,834 Times
in
1,998 Posts
I think you need to do the “Kurt” damp swaddling cloth approach- many of those rust eaters do not play well with aluminum.
Likes For repechage:
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 9,551
Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 801 Post(s)
Liked 1,816 Times
in
644 Posts
It's a faded early 80's Phil wood hub with butterfly lacing as said neither of which are a thing butterfly lacing is mostly for low rider and cruiser show bikes. Still a really nice wheel if its true and smooth I wouldn't have a issues putting it on a vintage bike.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,837
Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 1,048 Times
in
739 Posts
I built a wheelset in that pattern for an early 80s raleigh, the spokes started breaking after around 7 or 8 months of commuting to work and the college campus, not too long by any real standard for a good wheel build. But I wasn't gentle on them by any means. In hindsight using a 1.8 spoke would be better, less stresses at the crossings or even a 1.8/1.6 spoke. Basically its hard to get the tension right with the way the spokes cross and as the pattern settled in it allowed them to loosen. Wouldn't use it for a MTB but would do it again for a general ride around bike.
#22
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,464
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3133 Post(s)
Liked 2,115 Times
in
1,378 Posts
it's ok, peak-fixie wheel. I still think you're cool
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
Likes For Darth Lefty:
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,162
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2367 Post(s)
Liked 1,758 Times
in
1,197 Posts
How much wood would Phil Wood kill if Phil.... oh never mind.....
Likes For madpogue:
Likes For P!N20:
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 913
Bikes: 1964(?) Frejus Tour de France, 1967(?) Dawes Double Blue, 1979 Trek 710, 1982 Claud Butler Dalesman, 1983 Schwinn Paramount Elite, 2014 Brompton, maybe a couple more
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked 680 Times
in
332 Posts
So the back wheel had a weird freewheel setup - two single speed freewheels side by side. I don't have any BMX freewheel tools so I took it to the local bike shop. They were able to get the first freewheel off. Guess what was holding the two freewheels together?
A bottom bracket cup.
The second freewheel is still on there because the BMX freewheel tool won't fit over the Phil axle assembly. I either need to find a version of the tool with a large opening, or I need to push out the press-fit axle.
A bottom bracket cup.
The second freewheel is still on there because the BMX freewheel tool won't fit over the Phil axle assembly. I either need to find a version of the tool with a large opening, or I need to push out the press-fit axle.
Likes For albrt: