Is there a low (no) carb fuel for long rides?
#51
There's plenty of research detailing how ultra processed foods damage our good gut bacteria and induce the kinds of bacteria we don't want. Food is more than just replenishing blood sugar. Protect the liver and feed the gut bacteria is a good way to look at the situation. Whole foods is the answer.
#52
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Off the bike whole foods are best, no question. On bike fuelling not so much. As it happens I had my gut bacteria tested recently and it was all positive. It is the big picture that counts rather than individual food items, especially when on-bike fuelling is such a small part of our total diet.
Are you telling me that it simply isn't possible to ride a bike without consuming pure sugar? I can't subscribe to the idea that cyclists can't perform without refueling from processed carbs.
Last edited by RH Clark; 03-09-24 at 07:44 AM.
#53
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No he wasn't trying to tell you that. But for some reason you just don't understand.
#54
I would be very interested to see exactly how fueling on the bike effects insulin. Spiking insulin is what I wish to avoid.
Are you telling me that it simply isn't possible to ride a bike without consuming pure sugar? I can't subscribe to the idea that cyclists can't perform without refueling from processed carbs.
Are you telling me that it simply isn't possible to ride a bike without consuming pure sugar? I can't subscribe to the idea that cyclists can't perform without refueling from processed carbs.
I’m only talking about long, fast rides, where fuelling is necessary to avoid bonking. If you ride slower then you can tolerate more fuelling options and need less fuel anyway.
Nutrition is all about the bigger picture. If you eat healthy off the bike, then there is no need to worry about consuming simple carbs to fuel long, hard rides where you need them. If you are genuinely riding hard it is actually difficult to over-consume carbs.
If you want to check your blood glucose while riding, then a glucose monitor is not that expensive. I’ve done it myself for a couple of weeks.
#55
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I would be very interested to see exactly how fueling on the bike effects insulin. Spiking insulin is what I wish to avoid.
Are you telling me that it simply isn't possible to ride a bike without consuming pure sugar? I can't subscribe to the idea that cyclists can't perform without refueling from processed carbs.
Are you telling me that it simply isn't possible to ride a bike without consuming pure sugar? I can't subscribe to the idea that cyclists can't perform without refueling from processed carbs.
Eating enough becomes a major issue at high exercise levels, which means that stomach emptying becomes an issue. Doesn't matter how much you stuff down, only matters how fast it gets into your blood stream. One can bonk from eating stuff that moves across the stomach wall too slowly. Happens all the time. There's a thing called "sloshy stomach."
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#56
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I have struggled with this issue since stating to get back in shape a year ago after a challenging year medically and being 60+.
As I worked up to 50+ mile rides, I found I had two problems. One is running out of energy and the other is having hard time losing weight when my calorie burned varied 1,000+ calories from day to day (riding days vs. non-riding days).
I've been trying to stay away from carbs and have lost 55+ lbs since Oct, so the plan worked from that aspect.
I now eat some (~1 cup) of steamed white rice the night before I ride more than 40 miles and the morning of the ride I have rice mixed with greek yogurt.
YMMV, but it has worked for me.
Cheers, Mike
As I worked up to 50+ mile rides, I found I had two problems. One is running out of energy and the other is having hard time losing weight when my calorie burned varied 1,000+ calories from day to day (riding days vs. non-riding days).
I've been trying to stay away from carbs and have lost 55+ lbs since Oct, so the plan worked from that aspect.
I now eat some (~1 cup) of steamed white rice the night before I ride more than 40 miles and the morning of the ride I have rice mixed with greek yogurt.
YMMV, but it has worked for me.
Cheers, Mike
#57
For energy the choice is between carbs and fat. Dried fruit is high glycemic but raising the blood sugar level when riding is quite different than doing so while sitting at a desk or watching TV. The focus is on weight loss which is unfortunate as half the lost weight is often muscle mass and that lowers the resting metabolic rate and that is not good for long term wealth. But everyone wants a quick fix that requires as little effort as possible.
#58
Yep and if you choose fat there is no point in fuelling up with fat before or during the ride as you already have a practically unlimited supply ready to burn. That sounds great, but only if you ride slow enough to not require carbs. It is possible, but most people will find long rides pretty tough without consuming at least some carbs. Anything else you eat during a ride (fat, protein, fiber) will just get in the way at that point and provide no additional fuel.
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#59
Yep and if you choose fat there is no point in fuelling up with fat before or during the ride as you already have a practically unlimited supply ready to burn. That sounds great, but only if you ride slow enough to not require carbs. It is possible, but most people will find long rides pretty tough without consuming at least some carbs. Anything else you eat during a ride (fat, protein, fiber) will just get in the way at that point and provide no additional fuel.
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People that train are going to increase their ability to convert fat to energy at a higher rate whether they use carbohydrates or not during the ride. But for the most part two athletes of equal stamina and ability, the one that uses carb's will stand a better chance of out pacing the other for a longer time. If we are just talking about short rides or a sprint, then it's a toss up.
#61
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Studies have shown that with training the body increases its ability to use fat for energy. The catch is that you need to train and most people want something that does not require this level of effort over a long period of time. There is a reason why when more energy is used than is provided by calories a good portion of the loss of tissue is adipose fat.
Yes, you can become more efficient at burning fat over time. But as stated above and multiple times in this thread - you are limited by intensity levels. And your RPE will seem higher when burning fat at all intensity levels. My legs just feel flat sluggish or dead when void of carbs, even at Z2.
Another factor - during training, you will naturally up your Z2 power levels. You will eventually cruise along faster using fat energy - but are you really more efficient at burning fat, or just in better shape?
I did a training ride this weekend, 3400'+ of climbing in 21 miles - but the climbing happened in about 6-7 of those miles. 10-21% grades. Unless you have a Z2 of 275-300+w, or weigh a buck twenty - you will not do that type of ride on fat alone. At 180# with a Z2 topping out at 210w - I needed carbs. 40-60 per hour and pre ride carby meal - and I still almost bonked on the last effort.
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#62
The thread title itself “is there a low (no) carb fuel for long rides?” can be answered with a simple “no”.
While you can certainly burn stored fat while riding, our fat reserves are practically unlimited (literally weeks of riding fuel) and there is no way that any fat consumed during the ride can be utilised.
Carb reserves on the other hand are very limited and once you run out of them you will suffer. Only riding slower stretches your carb reserves. So it makes sense to replenish simple carbs (sugar) during a long ride. Complex carbs (whole fruit and veg) are harder to break down into useful fuel during a ride. The easiest way to get useful carbs during a ride is via energy drinks and gels. It’s either that or ride much slower to burn mostly fat as energy. As above there is no requirement to replenish fat during a ride (unless there is some other reason for it).
While you can certainly burn stored fat while riding, our fat reserves are practically unlimited (literally weeks of riding fuel) and there is no way that any fat consumed during the ride can be utilised.
Carb reserves on the other hand are very limited and once you run out of them you will suffer. Only riding slower stretches your carb reserves. So it makes sense to replenish simple carbs (sugar) during a long ride. Complex carbs (whole fruit and veg) are harder to break down into useful fuel during a ride. The easiest way to get useful carbs during a ride is via energy drinks and gels. It’s either that or ride much slower to burn mostly fat as energy. As above there is no requirement to replenish fat during a ride (unless there is some other reason for it).
#63
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I would be very interested to see exactly how fueling on the bike effects insulin. Spiking insulin is what I wish to avoid.
Are you telling me that it simply isn't possible to ride a bike without consuming pure sugar? I can't subscribe to the idea that cyclists can't perform without refueling from processed carbs.
Are you telling me that it simply isn't possible to ride a bike without consuming pure sugar? I can't subscribe to the idea that cyclists can't perform without refueling from processed carbs.
FWIW, there are certainly cyclists riding on low carb diets who don't consume lots of sugar or processed foods. They aren't racing. If your definition of "performing" doesn't involve pushing your body to its limits for hours on end, then there are more options. But if you are looking to pin on a number and want to win, you need carbs.
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I would be very interested to see exactly how fueling on the bike effects insulin. Spiking insulin is what I wish to avoid.
Are you telling me that it simply isn't possible to ride a bike without consuming pure sugar? I can't subscribe to the idea that cyclists can't perform without refueling from processed carbs.
Are you telling me that it simply isn't possible to ride a bike without consuming pure sugar? I can't subscribe to the idea that cyclists can't perform without refueling from processed carbs.
But
I want to ride fast/hard every so often.
The T2 diabetic is typically having high levels of insulin 24/7. Spikes at every meal with carbs, high levels in between... just overall high levels.
Some (most) T2's on low carb/keto can avoid these spikes and overall high levels, so can "normal" people. The 24/7 issue of high insulin and spikes are not as big of an issue on the correct diet.
Carbing up for a few long rides per year, a few months of hard training 2x per week = very limited amounts and durations of insulin spikes.
For me personally, that is acceptable. I want to be able to ride hard and fast every so often. I want to climb mountains every so often. For me to do that, carbs are required.
I could ride along in Z2 seemingly forever and never eat any carbs - but I want to give it the beans from time to time.
No matter what you do - this type of exercise helps with insulin sensitivity and can help reduce spikes in both insulin and blood glucose.
Keep on riding, heal the body.