Is a front derailleur a part of history?
#77
Death fork? Naaaah!!
I think I rode my new gravel bike two or three times before I replaced the 1x with a double crank.
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You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.
(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
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#78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duragrouch
(me): 1X cassettes are also a pain to clean without a shop solvent cleaner. They're riveted together to get sufficient lateral stiffness on the big cogs. Regular cassette, the cogs and spacers come apart for easy cleaning.
(you): With some exceptions on the low end, this hasn’t been true for at least 30 years.
Question: What isn't true? Modern 1X cassettes don't come apart. All the old cassettes I've worked with do come apart for cleaning. Yes, they are old or low end. But are you saying that modern, quality, non-1X (road) cassettes are riveted together and do not come apart for cleaning? Maybe the 10/11/12 cogs are so thin they are riveted to an aluminum carrier like much larger 1Xs, for sufficient lateral stiffness? Do tell.
Originally Posted by Duragrouch
(me): 1X cassettes are also a pain to clean without a shop solvent cleaner. They're riveted together to get sufficient lateral stiffness on the big cogs. Regular cassette, the cogs and spacers come apart for easy cleaning.
(you): With some exceptions on the low end, this hasn’t been true for at least 30 years.
Question: What isn't true? Modern 1X cassettes don't come apart. All the old cassettes I've worked with do come apart for cleaning. Yes, they are old or low end. But are you saying that modern, quality, non-1X (road) cassettes are riveted together and do not come apart for cleaning? Maybe the 10/11/12 cogs are so thin they are riveted to an aluminum carrier like much larger 1Xs, for sufficient lateral stiffness? Do tell.
#79
Senior Member
I tear the flap off of a corrugated cardboard box and use that. Cheap, easy, and disposable. The width is perfect
#80
With a mighty wind
Miche for Campagnolo cassettes come with single rings. Aside from that, I haven’t seen a cassette that fully comes apart since 8 speed. They all seem to have their largest cogs on a carrier and the smallest loose.
I first saw this on triples, XTR 3x8. The crank has nothing to do with this.
If you’re already taking it off, just dip it in simple green and brush it. Probably quicker than disassembly.
I first saw this on triples, XTR 3x8. The crank has nothing to do with this.
If you’re already taking it off, just dip it in simple green and brush it. Probably quicker than disassembly.
#81
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Miche for Campagnolo cassettes come with single rings. Aside from that, I haven’t seen a cassette that fully comes apart since 8 speed. They all seem to have their largest cogs on a carrier and the smallest loose.
I first saw this on triples, XTR 3x8. The crank has nothing to do with this.
If you’re already taking it off, just dip it in simple green and brush it. Probably quicker than disassembly.
I first saw this on triples, XTR 3x8. The crank has nothing to do with this.
If you’re already taking it off, just dip it in simple green and brush it. Probably quicker than disassembly.
#83
It was probably 22 32 44 on the front, so 28 to 98 gear inches, seems reasonable for riding roads and cycle tracks. I was going to remove all the accessories and turn it back into a proper off road machine, its utility role was taken over by a mid-drive e-bike, but it was stolen. I have a replacement frameset and some 1980s/90s parts to build into the off road machine that it would have been, and don't worry it will have sufficiently low gearing.
#84
I could see the FD go away if someone would make a 2x internal hub that worked well with derailleur shifting. While I have no problem with FDs myself it does tend to be the part that doesn't work well for the casual rider, and hence are always left in the same position, usually on the small ring, or the middle of a triple.
#85
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I have some friends who like to ride fully loaded bikes, mostly on gravel/ripio, with many steep climbs, for 2-3 weeks. They wouldn't change their 3x for anything (well, at least the older ones ).
#86
#87
Oh for the days at my former employers, every one of them had a machine shop with a solvent cleaner, glass-bead blasting cabinet, mill, lathe, press, and I was cockpit-qualified on everything, worked my way through school as a machinist, all except the welder, I can't weld. I'd stay late or go in on a Saturday to do a full bike overhaul, it was great. Vehicle lifts too, could easily work on my own vehicles.
#88
I live in a rented room. No workshop or garage, no solvent cleaner, not allowed, I have to get by with just a scrub sponge and dish soap. It's vastly easier cleaning for me if the cassette comes apart.
Oh for the days at my former employers, every one of them had a machine shop with a solvent cleaner, glass-bead blasting cabinet, mill, lathe, press, and I was cockpit-qualified on everything, worked my way through school as a machinist, all except the welder, I can't weld. I'd stay late or go in on a Saturday to do a full bike overhaul, it was great. Vehicle lifts too, could easily work on my own vehicles.
Oh for the days at my former employers, every one of them had a machine shop with a solvent cleaner, glass-bead blasting cabinet, mill, lathe, press, and I was cockpit-qualified on everything, worked my way through school as a machinist, all except the welder, I can't weld. I'd stay late or go in on a Saturday to do a full bike overhaul, it was great. Vehicle lifts too, could easily work on my own vehicles.
#89
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You still want to be able to maintain specific cadences for different situations. Many people who ride e-bikes want pedal assist and not pedal replacement. So you're still putting energy into the system through the pedals and, depending on road speed, still need to be able to maintain the relatively tight range of cadences where the human anatomy works efficiently.
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#90
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This is my use case for triples, also. I ride in the center ring in almost all scenarios (which is usually a 32-36, depending on the bike) and will shift down to the small ring when I've run out of low gear on the middle ring and will shift up to the big ring when I've run out of high gear. Though I have a few 1x bikes, I generally prefer the 3x because I can get the gear range I want without either: big steps in a cassette, or a higher-cost 11 or 12-speed setup that would get me the range I want. I like the 11-13-15-18-21-24-28 spacing on a typical 7-speed cassette. Add a 32 or 34 for 8-speed, and add a 36 or 40 on top of that for 9-speed. I want much more range than that, so I'd need to keep adding sprockets, pushing me into territory where I'd rather not be. For those reasons, I prefer having the range on the front, and thinking of each ring as its own "range", like a 4x4 transfer case, where you have "low range" and "high range". Except on my bikes, I've got "low range", "mid range", and "high range". It works well.
Last edited by hokiefyd; 03-30-24 at 05:48 AM.
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Not exactly. The Dura Ace 9 speed cassette has several sprockets riveted together. For the 12-tooth top gear, the three largest sprockets are riveted together, so are the next two, and the remainder are loose.
#93
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Ironically, Shimano have switched up at least some of their 7-speed cassettes so that the 28 and 24 are both riveted to the 21, with a thick spacer behind the 21 to go against the shoulder of the freehub. It seems very much like their 7-speed freewheel construction and I suspect cost savings from that commonality is what drove that decision.
Last edited by hokiefyd; 03-30-24 at 05:49 AM.
#94
I only have double rings so a lot of overlap, it only gives me 2 more gears at the low end, but I still try to follow similar to the above.
#95
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If like me, you are on the low ring when you need bailout lows so probably on the big cogs, middle ring for middle cogs (although the middle ring can do all the cogs because even at extreme small or big cog, the chainline angle is less than on the small or big ring), and big ring when on the small cogs.
I like all this because it gives me something to do and think about while riding. One of the main reasons I ride is stress relief and I ride to rid my mind of the things that fill it on a daily basis at work. Giving it something to think about, like shifting gears and traversing the "drivetrain ranges" as my speed changes, is good therapy for me. I fully recognize that it can get complicated (some may say unnecessarily so) for those who may be new to cycling, kids, etc., and I absolutely acknowledge how a 1x system can simplify things.
One of my MTBs has a 1x, and I put an oval ring on it, just to play with that and see how it made the ride different. I like it.
I like all the bike things, really. The variety of choice makes this hobby/sport/activity interesting.
#96
Yes, similar here. I don't wait until I'm in the largest sprocket to change down to the small ring. Usually by the second- or third-largest...if I need more low gear, I'll go down to the low ring at that point. Similar with the large ring. I may use at least half of the cassette in either the small ring or the large ring, just depending on the situation (to avoid having to shift the front a bunch and get those big cadence changes).
I like all this because it gives me something to do and think about while riding. One of the main reasons I ride is stress relief and I ride to rid my mind of the things that fill it on a daily basis at work. Giving it something to think about, like shifting gears and traversing the "drivetrain ranges" as my speed changes, is good therapy for me. I fully recognize that it can get complicated (some may say unnecessarily so) for those who may be new to cycling, kids, etc., and I absolutely acknowledge how a 1x system can simplify things.
One of my MTBs has a 1x, and I put an oval ring on it, just to play with that and see how it made the ride different. I like it.
I like all the bike things, really. The variety of choice makes this hobby/sport/activity interesting.
I like all this because it gives me something to do and think about while riding. One of the main reasons I ride is stress relief and I ride to rid my mind of the things that fill it on a daily basis at work. Giving it something to think about, like shifting gears and traversing the "drivetrain ranges" as my speed changes, is good therapy for me. I fully recognize that it can get complicated (some may say unnecessarily so) for those who may be new to cycling, kids, etc., and I absolutely acknowledge how a 1x system can simplify things.
One of my MTBs has a 1x, and I put an oval ring on it, just to play with that and see how it made the ride different. I like it.
I like all the bike things, really. The variety of choice makes this hobby/sport/activity interesting.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 03-31-24 at 03:52 AM.
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But did it shift well? I didn't watch the video to find out. I figured it had been tried but never successfully. The second part of my post though is coming, universal electronic shifting. It will be cheaper than mechanical mostly because you do away with the shifter and replace it with cheap buttons and software control. Sram is on the right track, except they are still expensive.
The IGH shifting was pretty much the same as other IGH hubs of the time. Relax/coast for a moment while shifting the IGH and resume pedal pressure. I don't remember and gear ratio limits for the IGH, I think that was more a concern for off road or tandems then the types of bikes that usually had these Sachs 2x and 3x IGH cassette hubs, folders and other more transportation type bikes (the exception being where I first saw these hubs, on Bike Fridays which are more about travel than transportation IMO. IIRC Bike Friday ran on the hubs ability to offer an "overdrive" w/o a ft der. Remember these bikes ram nominally 20" tires, not big 700c) Andy (likely one of the few here who has overhauled a Sachs IGH cassette hub, but don't ask for specifics as it was way long ago...)
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#98
The cog set/der shifting went as well as the then current der systems did because, no surprise, they were of current shifting components (chain, cogs, der, levers).
The IGH shifting was pretty much the same as other IGH hubs of the time. Relax/coast for a moment while shifting the IGH and resume pedal pressure. I don't remember and gear ratio limits for the IGH, I think that was more a concern for off road or tandems then the types of bikes that usually had these Sachs 2x and 3x IGH cassette hubs, folders and other more transportation type bikes (the exception being where I first saw these hubs, on Bike Fridays which are more about travel than transportation IMO. IIRC Bike Friday ran on the hubs ability to offer an "overdrive" w/o a ft der. Remember these bikes ram nominally 20" tires, not big 700c) Andy (likely one of the few here who has overhauled a Sachs IGH cassette hub, but don't ask for specifics as it was way long ago...)
The IGH shifting was pretty much the same as other IGH hubs of the time. Relax/coast for a moment while shifting the IGH and resume pedal pressure. I don't remember and gear ratio limits for the IGH, I think that was more a concern for off road or tandems then the types of bikes that usually had these Sachs 2x and 3x IGH cassette hubs, folders and other more transportation type bikes (the exception being where I first saw these hubs, on Bike Fridays which are more about travel than transportation IMO. IIRC Bike Friday ran on the hubs ability to offer an "overdrive" w/o a ft der. Remember these bikes ram nominally 20" tires, not big 700c) Andy (likely one of the few here who has overhauled a Sachs IGH cassette hub, but don't ask for specifics as it was way long ago...)
Bike Friday, not certain, but I think they started out with triple cranks, which can't do racer highs on 20" with a standard 52T ring, but was adequate for touring (just like mine). Later I think they offered the 3x8 IGH with no front derailleur, which many bought, but guess what? They are commonly available on the used market at great discount, I'm sure because of the cost of annual maintainence and repairing the IGH, or the hub is trashed because ridden in the wet and not given a good annual regreasing, it doesn't take long for serious rust with any neglect. All-derailleur used BFs command higher prices. Their recent bikes offer wide 2X, but being BF, you can get anything you want upon request, even an IGH I'm sure, but that doesn't appear as a standard option on their website.
Dahon offered from the factory the Speed TR (touring) with nice touring racks front and rear, front dyno hub with lights, better handlebar and stem setup with nice bar ends, nicer crank, quick-removeable pedals, fenders all standard, but... 3x7/8 IGH. And not cheap, I think they were about $1200 circa 2008, that was a lot. Not nearly as common on the used market, but when they do show up, they are cheap, or don't sell. I have never seen a Dahon with a factory triple, and the factory doubles I've seen were all 52/42, not enough range, aimed at the sporty market. My 2X (wide, 50/34) conversion transformed the bike, but I guess no big market for that.
#99
#100
The chainring on my electric bike has 53 teeth I think, and there would be plenty of room for 2 more chainrings. On my manual bike that has a 42T chainring, there wouldn't be room for the sensor that's on the bottom bracket and the plastic ring with embedded magnets that's on the crank axle/spindle. Some electric bikes have the pedal assist sensor on a wheel I think. There would be room for that kind of sensor on my manual bike.