Aubergine 

Be aware that if your bike has the original French bottom bracket, it may not work with the tool you were given. This is not just a French thing by the way; there are a lot of differences in how adjustable cups (in particular) are meant to be screwed on and off.

markk900

Agree, but one of the photos I could see the adjustable cup has the hex on it so it should just be a matter of loosening the lock ring (with a chisel, flat screwdriver or if you are a purist a ring spanner &#128514, and unscrewing the cup with an adjustable wrench. Assuming of course that the crank arms have been removed.

edit: I am assuming what RustyPeugeot meant by “bottom bracket tool” was in fact a crank arm puller: most of the SR cranks I have worked with came off just fine with a Campagnolo puller.

RustyPeugeot

1. Good news is I got the cranks off and opened up the bottom bracket.

2. Cleaned the cups and greased the bearings.

3. Got it back together. Snugged it up so there was no play on the shaft, but spins freely.

4. Bad news is there isn’t enough threads on the cup to screw the lock nut back on.

I’m guessing that means the bearings, shaft, or cups are worn out and need to be replaced.

markk900

I suspect it means whoever did the conversion to cotterless cranks used an axle that was too narrow. That’s likely why there was play in the bottom bracket.

You’ll need to take it apart again to measure the axle, and then find one that is longer (measured between the flanges where the bearings run). In the photo below you can see two axles I have used in Peugeots; they both measure 51mm to the outer edges of the bearing flanges; but they are slightly different in other dimensions (thickness of the flange etc).

markk900

Found this picture of the key dimensions:


I also noted a good selection of inexpensive options online….lots of 3SS with 52mm ‘B’ dimensions which should work for you.

RustyPeugeot

markk900 thanks for helping. Last night when I was working on it I was thinking the axle was too short and they messed up the conversion.

Since I’m new to working on these old Peugeot bikes, what is the best website to purchase axles from?

I guess I could also go with a sealed bottom bearing bracket.

markk900

No special website - the crank axle is not a Peugeot part nor is it proprietary. Depending on your measurements I saw them on Amazon, and a few bicycle suppliers online. You want a JIS taper as the cranks are SR (Japanese) not anything French.

One of the axles I showed had the following dimensions: A and C = 36mm, B=52mm (I mismeasured the first time),D = 124.5mm. You can probably get away with a non-symmetrical axle as well with A being 35mm and C being 37.5mm and it should work (longer side holds the chainwheel crank). Look for 3SS or 3S axles and see what you can find. Also check Sheldon for some good background info on axle sizing. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

You can check with your current axle: how much of a gap between the crank arm and the bottom bracket cups on each side. That will give you an idea of how much tolerance you can afford for the A and C measurements (take into account the arm has to clear the chainstay on the NDS, and the sprockets have to clear the DS stay.

You can indeed also upgrade to a sealed bottom bracket but I have no experience of doing that.

Aubergine 

Rusty, I use sealed BBs from Velo Orange on many of my French bikes. They work very well, although they are not exactly cheap. I think Shimano offers a French threaded BB as well that probably is cheaper.

markk900

Aubergine : I had a look at the VO site and the sealed bb is much more reasonably priced than I expected. However in the reviews I saw mention of people using 107mm spindles for UO-8s. That seems awfully narrow to me - what have you used? I would have expected to use a 118mm at least.

Aubergine 

i can't remember off hand. I use them with a variety of triple cranks as well, which does not help my memory.

RustyPeugeot

I might have some time this evening to work on the blue UO-8 after work. If so, I'll pull the bottom bracket axle out and measure the A, B, C, and D dimensions and post back here to see if it matches markk900 's.

RustyPeugeot

Measured the bottom bracket axle tonight. I’m confused what’s going on, so hopefully you guys can help.

The axle has 3S stamped into it.

A = 35mm
B = 52mm
C = 38mm
D = 124.5mm or 125mm

The bottom bracket on the bike frame is 68mm.
The lock ring is about 4.5mm.

It’s like I need B to be 5mm or 6mm wider so there will be some threads to secure the lock ring down.

The adjustable cup on the non-drive side does seem a little worn inside. So a new cup might help too. I’m guessing it is French thread, but I have no idea how to tell.

I don’t want to make a mistake and order parts that won’t work.

I also have not removed the fixed cup from the drive side. I need a bigger wrench or special tool.

RustyPeugeot

markk900

I’m confused too, as that axle with those dimensions worked fine in my own Peugeot when I was running cotterless.

Dumb question but are the bearings in the right way round? I did some looking and apparently the 9-ball caged bearings go the opposite to the 11-ball caged bearings (see https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...direction.html), specifically JohnDThompson ’s comment:

“9-ball retainers generally have the open side facing into the cup. 11-ball retainers have the open side facing the cone on the spindle.”

Since from the photo you have 9 ball caged bearings, and the one in the cup is the opposite to the one still on the shaft, try putting both bearings open side out….. couldn’t hurt!

RustyPeugeot

Thanks again markk900. I’ll try flipping the bearings around. I might also try loose ball bearings too since they don’t cost much.

RustyPeugeot

OK I flipped the sealed bearings around and it fits and there are enough threads to put on the lock ring. However the bearings are not smooth. If I loosen the adjustable cup to make the bearings smooth, then there is play in the axle shaft.

Maybe new bearings are worth a try.

markk900

Glad to see mystery number 1 is solved. I think you might want to just go to uncaged bearings since as you pointed out they’re cheap and I think work better than caged.

Also sometimes there is a fine line between no play and roughness in the bearings: especially when you go to tighten the lock ring. It’s been many the time I have fiddled with adjustable cups/wheel cones and locking rings to get it just right. Try leaving just a smidgen of play in the axle before doing up the lock ring (or conversely “loosen” the adjustable cup against its lock ring).

Aubergine 

Those are not sealed bearings, but caged bearings. If bearings in those cages are put on the wrong way, the cage grinds on the bearing track. That may be what you are feeling.
My preference in any case is to use loose bearings because you can add a couple of balls. The extra balls make the mechanism stronger and smoother. I use 11 1/4 inch balls on each side. Sheldon is helpful: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbadj.html

RustyPeugeot

Aubergine I think you might be right about the caged bearings causing the binding. I ordered some ball bearings last night, so hopefully that resolves the problem. If not, I think I need to purchase some new bottom bracket cups, but I have no idea what size they are or where to source them from.

jdawginsc 

Any pictures of the cups races? That might be helpful. I have used 3m scrubbers and WD40, then wiped and used bar keeps friend to clean the races pretty decently. Even slightly tracked or pitted,

RustyPeugeot

I'll post some photos when I take the thing apart to put in the loose bearings.
So where does a guy buy new bottom bracket bearing cups for his early 1970's Peugeot UO-8?

jdawginsc 

From another UO-8 mostly. Haha. Those things were tough though. A little cleaning and judicious use of an abrasive will make them serviceable...probably.

markk900

I honestly would be surprised if the cups are worn: I have seen them badly corroded but not worn out. And yeah another Peugeot is the best source.

However I should add that the cups are somewhat standardized (standards are great when there are so many to choose from) so if you really want replacements they don’t have to be Peugeot. When I put my Sugino crank on my Peugeot back in 1974 I bought cups with it.



I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) that the 35xP1 is the correct type for Peugeots of the early 70s.

RustyPeugeot

Awesome guys, this is what I was looking for. haha. I have two rusty UE-18s that I might be able to pull a cup from. They have the cotter pin cranks though, so not sure if they would work.

Aubergine 

Yeah, they were tough. The French usually used decent equipment on their bikes, outside of those Simplex front derailleurs. If you decide you do need new cups, I'll send you a couple that I snagged from an old French bike,