bbbean 

FWIW, when I was oiling, I did a pretty thorough cleaning (brushes, rags,and degreaser) once every week or two. In my experience, the folks who are OCD enough to maintain a chain with wax were obsessively cleaning and maintaining with oil before they discovered wax.

BB

bbbean 

My road bike gets wiped off as soon as I get back after a rain, so no. The CX bike (which doesn't always get the same TLC as my road bike) has some minor discoloration, but not enough to cause an issue. Worth noting is that my road bike has Dura Ace chains, and my CX bike has KMC, so it could be the difference in use, the difference in cleaning, or the difference in manufacturers. I haven't put in the time to figure that out.

79pmooney

I'm a space case. I always lose at least one part. So I have to remove two links and risk the big-big ugly. (Less ugly because the chain is so clean, but still ...)

bbbean 

And I thought I was OCD. I suppose if you take the time to disassemble your entire chain, meticulously clean, and reassemble, you're going to get great results. But complaints about using a crock pot a few times a year seem pretty trivial after all that.

BB

elcruxio

Wax doesn't collect dirt and thus it doesn't form into a grinding paste as soon as it's exposed to the outside world

With hot waxing the chain does indeed get thoroughly cleaned every time it's rewaxed. The cleaning can be further increased with boiling water prior to waxing. So you need the actual wax and optionally some water.

You can do a full strip and clean for an oiled chain every 200 miles or so as well, but you'll need aggressive solvents to break down the black gunk. Additionally you'll need to clean the drivetrain so the black mess doesn't immediately transfer back to the chain. Even if you reuse the solvents involved you'll need to filter them after each clean. And disposing of solvents is a complete pain.

Disposing of water and wax is... Well it's not really difficult.

Clydesdale John

Hi

I have three bikes. One is a old Schwinn 12 speed I almost never ride. Another is a 2010 Giant Defy 3 that I ride once or twice a week and I use regular chain lube on it. I don't want to spend extra time taking the chain on or off. I found that the less I lube the chain, the cleaner everything is. For that reason I don't lube it much at all. I just ride it a lot. 20 to 50 miles per ride. I am very mechanically inclined. I do all work on the bikes myself. The Giant Defy has cheap heavy parts. So if a part looks like it is wearing I just replace it.

My third bike is a Cannondale CAAD 10 2013 with Force components. I used to crit race this bike ten years ago. It is now kind of like my hot rod. I keep it super clean nice and shiny. I only ride it a couple of times a year on special events or warm days. It has 28 mil Conti 5000 on it with real nice light rims. All the components are light weight and expensive. Every 200 miles I take the chain off, clean it and let it sit in hot liquid parifin wax. I also then clean all the gears and components at the same time. I am about 1 or 2 miles faster in my average speed while riding the CAAD 10.

I ride my old Giant Defy 3 to get a good work out. I want it to be heavy and plenty of resistance to build up my strength. I can't understand why others ride expensive light weight bikes regularly. The purpose of most of my rides is to get exercise and build stamina and leg strength. I find a heavy old bike works best for that.

Eric F 

Because they're fun to ride.

Your power and endurance capacity doesn't change with the weight of your bike. With a heavier bike, you just go slower.

Clydesdale John

"Your power and endurance capacity doesn't change with the weight of your bike. With a heavier bike, you just go slower."

Yeah you are right. A lighter bike is more fun to ride. I enjoy riding my CAAD 10. I guess I am just a little jealous. I have a wife on disability and a few kids to take care of. My expenses are high. I mostly ride the old bike to save money. That is my real reason.

Eric F 

If taking care of your family is your priority, that means you're doing it right.

cyccommute 

No. I’ve been using White Lightning since around 2000 or before and haven’t had any real issues. It doesn’t need to be added as often as White Lightning says…certainly not every 100 miles. I did a ride around Lake Erie several years ago and only had to relubricate twice in 1500 miles. I’ve tried a few other over the years…Rock-n-Roll Red and Gold, WD-40 dry and maybe a couple of others…but haven’t found anything as clean and easy to use as the White Lightning. The Rock-n-Roll is oily and the WD-40 dry smells like Hai Karate.

phughes

Yeah, I know wax doesn't accumulate dirt as readily, which is of course, the biggest draw. Of course if something doesn't have the "stick quotient" to attract and collect dirt, one is lead to wonder just how well it would actually adhere to the chain.

I do believe that the cleanliness, and not necessarily the lubrication is what helps the chain last longer. It does lubricate of course, but the lack of grit would be the key.

I'm still not convinced in my particular case that it would be worth it, since my chains already last a long time, with very little attention other than wiping and lubing occasionally. I'm nit sure the added effort would be worthwhile, for me. Even Silica stresses the need to dry off the chain after a light rain. They go on to talk about reapplying during a ride in bad conditions, and using a wet lube, which is oil based.

I have never had a chain rust, and on tours have ridden in some very wet weather. I really didn't give my chain a thought, since I was using an oil based lube. It just wasn't a concern.

The biggest draw, for me, would be the cleanliness, simply so I wouldn't have it on my leg, or anything else, but I am not sure that is worth the added time in maintenance, and compared to what I do now, it would be much more. Overall, I am happy using oil, but it is always good to understand other options, so to those who helped, thanks.

phughes

Thanks. You are probably right about all that.

elcruxio

Well that's the interesting thing about wax. It has the "stick quotient" when it's in molten form and it remains stuck to whatever surface it was attached to when it solidifies. Often the outer thicker layer shears off when mechanical force is applied eg. in the form of a front derailleur or chainring. However even then a very thin layer of wax remains and to get rid of that you'll need to repetedly scratch the surface.

Now of course a chain gets plenty of scratches during riding so eventually most of the outside wax will be worn off and even further eventually the inside wax will be worn off. How far along those eventualities occur is the interesting part about modern waxes and how the period of internal lubrication can be extended with friction modifiers such as graphite or moly etc.

There is certainly some lubrication but since there's so little movement inside a chain the need for lubrication is also fairly limited. Wax is a very good, very slippery lubricant all the way up to the point until it isn't. Once that point is reached, it immediately and without warning becomes dog droppings. Think old style wood drawers. If one sticks you can wax the slide surfaces and the opening action becomes much smoother. Try doing the same thing with crankshaft bushings and it'll work maybe less than a second.
It seem that the lubrication requirements of a chain are within the lubrication parameters of paraffin waxes.

Silca has some strange ideas and that Poertner fellow states some things in his videos which are just flat out wrong.
I do think however that wiping a chain dry after a rainy ride isn't that big of a requirement. Then again I don't do it and neither does the wife so...

If I was an oil based fellow the easiest option for me would be drip wax like Silca Super Secret (could it be SSS from now on?). The rub with it would be that it needs to be applied well in advance (optimally 24 hours in advance) in order for it to dry and harden. Oils are easy in that they can be applied and you're good to go immediately. But they do attract dirt and they dirty the drivetrain too. For me the drivetrain was the worst since that's so difficult to clean.

I've stated elsewhere that it always depends on your riding conditions and requirements. Waxing isn't for everyone and in some cases oil based chain lubricants can be better. We're leaving on a tour next tuesday and in addition to a water based drip wax (SSS) I'm packing an oil based drip wax with me (Rex Domestique). The reason is that if the weather turns to multiple subsequent days of rain, I won't have time to "dry" the silca lubricant between the riding days, especially if humidity is high. As it's water based it's likely the wax would still be soft when we set out every morning and thus next to useless especially against further rain.

The Domestique is paraffin based but made liquid with oil. It's weird stuff in that it's extremely sticky but doesn't attract dirt the same way straight oil will. But if I need to resort to it I'll have quite the cleanup when we get back home. Can't go back to water based drip wax after the chain has been oiled.

On tours I also haven't had rusting issues with oil based lubes. We've chewed through chains though. Once had to replace the whole drivetrain because a chain went bad in record time. But my testing indicates that any rust you get with wax is on the outside only. At least if you don't over ride the chain. My rewax interval in extreme weather is 200km.

It wouldn't be a huge investment financially or effort wise to try a drip wax like SSS. You'd need to use a hefty degreaser to clean the chain and drivetrain prior to application but with oil based lubes you'll likely need to do that periodically anyways. It won't hurt to try and then you'll actually know whether waxing is for you or not.

SpedFast

I'd be concerned with the pesky 'gold diggers' if I ran gold chains

SoSmellyAir

Plus Rock-n-Roll tells you to just liberally squirt its lube roughly in the direction of where the chain is resting on the cassette.

13ollocks

at my age, even gold-diggers would be something….😟

Kontact

And then we are back to the fact that the waxed chain doesn't pick up dirt as much, requiring less cleaning in the first place and that the re-wax is the re-clean.

So there isn't much to argue about. Whether it is the substance or the technique, waxing just works better.


And even the 'last minute lube' argument is silly, because you can oil a waxed chain if you have to.

phughes

How is it silly, it's just a fact, and that fact doesn't mean I do not think waxing a chain is a bad idea. Not everything has to be am argument. I LIKE the idea of waxing a chain, even though at the moment it may not be the best option for me. It has become more accessible to people and more convenient in the past few years with the introduction of drip wax products like the one from Silica.

Oh, and BTW, I used to use a wax based chain lube for one of my motorcycles.

Kontact

The fact I'm pointing out is that the objection to wax - that you have to set aside 15 minutes or more to re-lube - doesn't actually amount to anything because you put oil on the waxed chain if you have to. Like, leaving for a big ride and suddenly realizing your waxed chain needs lube: Just oil it.

phughes

What objection to wax? I have no objection to wax? Where are you getting this? You are very good at reading into things evidently, because I never wrote anything that could lead someone to think anything like you just wrote. Give it a rest. I cannot understand wht you are making this an argument when I LIKE the idea of waxing a chain, just haven't done it yet, and at the same time have posted NO objections for doing so. Is it raining where you are and you're just bored?

The only thing I said that you could have possibly taken as an objection, is that after oiling, which I have no objection to, I said it negates the benefits of waxing. What I meant by that, is that once there is oil on the chain, which isn't bad, the oil on the chain will allow particles to stick to the chain, just as it does when you oil any chain. So in that way, it negates the benefits of waxing. That doesn't mean waxing a chain is bad, or that oiling a chain that has been waxed is bad, it just mean that now dirt will stick just as it does on a chain oiled rather than waxed. That is simply a fact, and is not in any way objecting to waxing a chain. Waxing a chain has many benefit, and I know that. Once it has been oiled though, then next time you clean it, you would have to use a degreaser, not a bad thing, nor is it in any way me trying to object to waxing a chain, it is simply a fact.

None of this is objecting to waxing a chain. In fact, it has all been an effort by me to learn more about it from those who have been doing it for a while. Some who answered were very helpful in posting their real world experience in waxiing their chains, giving me real information, good information, while not simply extolling the virtues of chain waxing through proselytizing. In other words, they helped me understand it better, and better understand the benefits, while at the same time being honest about the things to watch out for, like how it performs in wet conditions, and how to deal with it effectively. They did a very good job in doing that, and I appreciate it. Their answers will also remain here for anyone searching about it to see, and learn from. That's a good thing.

I am really at a loss to understand exactly what you are trying to accomplish by trying to argue with someone who is not arguing against that which you are so zealous. In other words, stop. I am not against waxing chains, in fact, all I have been doing is gathering information so that I might di it for myself when I get the ambition to remove my drivetrain and clean everything up to do so.

Kontact

My first response to you was to address two of your points about the nebulous value of waxing that you had mentioned.

And then I added a third objection that people make, and also addressed it. I didn't say it was your objection, but included it because it essentially completes all of the possible objections people have to hot wax.

That is all.

asgelle

I wouldn't trust someone who says this,
to say this,

elcruxio

You might want to chart the actual movement that goes on inside a chain during a full chain rotation. Relative to wheel bearings, crankset bearings or even jockey wheels, the inside of a chain does not see a lot of movement. Maybe one roller revolution per chain revolution?

But perhaps you have a different idea? Do share.

As to the Poertner fellow, in one of his tech videos he states that water on the chain simply boils off when the chain is immersed in wax. That doesn't happen at the allowed temps of silca hot wax.

Kontact

It doesn't boil off, but the wax does displace water and it drops to the bottom of the pot.

elcruxio

Yup. However it's a good idea to be aware of the water at yhe bottom when waxing chains. In order to ensure no water comes up with the chain it's a good idea to agitate the chain prior to lifting it out to harden.