Tell me again that tubeless is stupid
05-13-24, 11:28 AM
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05-13-24, 11:35 AM
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05-13-24, 11:56 AM
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Anyone recommending it (including Jan Heine).
What sealant did you use?
I am really surprised how poorly it worked in my one attempt.
05-13-24, 12:17 PM
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Sounds exactly like my tubeless experience. 48mm Rene Herse Barlow Pass tires on Velocity A23 rims simply would not seat, no matter what we tried, including a compressor, and the strap-around-the-circumference trick. Did not buy and try an Airshot or similar bottle inflator, because l can't take one with me on my unsupported rides, now, can I.
The trick that has always worked for me with Rene Herse and other tires with flimsy sidewalls it to first mount the tire with a tube in it, and seat it correctly. Then open whichever side was easier to seal, and pull out the tube, put in a valve without the core, and then seat it with a blast from a pump. When it has seated properly, remove the pump head. All the air will come out of course, but the tire beads should remain in place. (Sometimes it helps to lay the wheel on its side.) Replace the valve core and inflate. If everything works, take the valve core out again, inject the sealant, again replace the valve core, and pump it again. You shouldn't need to do it in the field, but if you do, it will be easier once the tire has a "memory" of being mounted. If I am not in a hurry, I leave the tube in overnight.
Last edited by Polaris OBark; 05-13-24 at 02:17 PM. Reason: ambiguity correction
05-13-24, 12:31 PM
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Which model of tire did this happen on?
So I know which tire not to buy.
I'm tubeless in everything (fat, gravel and mountain) except my road bike which is TPU tube.
So I know which tire not to buy.
I'm tubeless in everything (fat, gravel and mountain) except my road bike which is TPU tube.
05-13-24, 01:33 PM
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05-13-24, 01:41 PM
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Not my problem. If the puncture is big enough then IME it is easy enough to find and plug. I think the OP had an edge case where they managed to keep riding anyway. I prefer the option of plugging punctures vs not, which is one of the main reasons I prefer tubeless over tubed. Something I picked up years ago from running tubeless UST mtb wheels. No sealant in those days, just relied on plugs to fix flats, which I always found way more convenient than messing around with tubes.
05-13-24, 02:38 PM
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Barlows are 38mm.
The trick that has always worked for me with Rene Herse and other tires with flimsy sidewalls it to first mount the tire with a tube in it, and seat it correctly. Then open whichever side was easier to seal, and pull out the tube, put in a valve without the core, and then seat it with a blast from a pump. When it has seated properly, remove the pump head. All the air will come out of course, but the tire beads should remain in place. (Sometimes it helps to lay the wheel on its side.) Replace the valve core and inflate. If everything works, take the valve core out again, inject the sealant, again replace the valve core, and pump it again. You shouldn't need to do it in the field, but if you do, it will be easier once the tire has a "memory" of being mounted. If I am not in a hurry, I leave the tube in overnight.
The trick that has always worked for me with Rene Herse and other tires with flimsy sidewalls it to first mount the tire with a tube in it, and seat it correctly. Then open whichever side was easier to seal, and pull out the tube, put in a valve without the core, and then seat it with a blast from a pump. When it has seated properly, remove the pump head. All the air will come out of course, but the tire beads should remain in place. (Sometimes it helps to lay the wheel on its side.) Replace the valve core and inflate. If everything works, take the valve core out again, inject the sealant, again replace the valve core, and pump it again. You shouldn't need to do it in the field, but if you do, it will be easier once the tire has a "memory" of being mounted. If I am not in a hurry, I leave the tube in overnight.
It sounds plausible that broken-in tires would seat easier. Next time my brother visits, I'll bet he'll want to try - it's his bike and they're his wheels. Thanks for the tip.
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05-13-24, 02:46 PM
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All of my bikes are tubeless now, exclusively road bikes ridden 99% on pavement.
Unlike others who've had no on road issues, I've had several. Cut sidewalls requiring boot and tube (3), tread cuts that did not seal (2). Every one of those would have been an identical failure and repair if originally tubed.
So that's a wash.
I've had one cut that I successfully repaired with a plug.
So that's a win.
I've had many punctures on road that sealed with minimal pressure loss.
That's a win.
I've had many frustrating sessions in the garage trying to successfully tape a rim, trying to seat a tire, trying to remove a tire.
That's not a win. I'm getting better, perhaps have taping figured out, which is huge.
IMO, road tubeless is not as great as often reported, not as easy as often suggested. But still an overall improvement.
I just rode a 400k brevet, pretty sure my rear tire (gp5k) settled down to 20psi for the last 200 miles. I could have stopped and tubed it, but meh - which itself is a tubeless win.
Unlike others who've had no on road issues, I've had several. Cut sidewalls requiring boot and tube (3), tread cuts that did not seal (2). Every one of those would have been an identical failure and repair if originally tubed.
So that's a wash.
I've had one cut that I successfully repaired with a plug.
So that's a win.
I've had many punctures on road that sealed with minimal pressure loss.
That's a win.
I've had many frustrating sessions in the garage trying to successfully tape a rim, trying to seat a tire, trying to remove a tire.
That's not a win. I'm getting better, perhaps have taping figured out, which is huge.
IMO, road tubeless is not as great as often reported, not as easy as often suggested. But still an overall improvement.
I just rode a 400k brevet, pretty sure my rear tire (gp5k) settled down to 20psi for the last 200 miles. I could have stopped and tubed it, but meh - which itself is a tubeless win.
05-13-24, 02:54 PM
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Barlows are 38mm.
The trick that has always worked for me with Rene Herse and other tires with flimsy sidewalls it to first mount the tire with a tube in it, and seat it correctly. Then open whichever side was easier to seal, and pull out the tube, put in a valve without the core, and then seat it with a blast from a pump. When it has seated properly, remove the pump head. All the air will come out of course, but the tire beads should remain in place. (Sometimes it helps to lay the wheel on its side.) Replace the valve core and inflate. If everything works, take the valve core out again, inject the sealant, again replace the valve core, and pump it again. You shouldn't need to do it in the field, but if you do, it will be easier once the tire has a "memory" of being mounted. If I am not in a hurry, I leave the tube in overnight.
The trick that has always worked for me with Rene Herse and other tires with flimsy sidewalls it to first mount the tire with a tube in it, and seat it correctly. Then open whichever side was easier to seal, and pull out the tube, put in a valve without the core, and then seat it with a blast from a pump. When it has seated properly, remove the pump head. All the air will come out of course, but the tire beads should remain in place. (Sometimes it helps to lay the wheel on its side.) Replace the valve core and inflate. If everything works, take the valve core out again, inject the sealant, again replace the valve core, and pump it again. You shouldn't need to do it in the field, but if you do, it will be easier once the tire has a "memory" of being mounted. If I am not in a hurry, I leave the tube in overnight.
05-13-24, 02:58 PM
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IMO, road tubeless is not as great as often reported, not as easy as often suggested. But still an overall improvement.
[/QUOTE]
Tend to agree with this. One thing forgotten is that with tubeless, you can generally run less air pressure. I find running 70-80 psi on my road bike, instead of 105-110 makes for a far more comfortable ride. So that’s a win.
[/QUOTE]
Tend to agree with this. One thing forgotten is that with tubeless, you can generally run less air pressure. I find running 70-80 psi on my road bike, instead of 105-110 makes for a far more comfortable ride. So that’s a win.
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05-13-24, 03:21 PM
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05-13-24, 03:31 PM
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The point, as outlined in the original post, is that my riding conditions are mine -- and in those conditions, I benefit from tubeless tires. The post is addressed to those bf'ers who can't fathom that other people may not ride for the same reasons, or on the same roads, as they do.
As for the OT posts about pool noodles and injecting sealant into tubes...well, that's just the sort of dross that lands in almost every bf thread.
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05-13-24, 03:34 PM
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05-13-24, 04:18 PM
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All of my bikes are tubeless now, exclusively road bikes ridden 99% on pavement.
Unlike others who've had no on road issues, I've had several. Cut sidewalls requiring boot and tube (3), tread cuts that did not seal (2). Every one of those would have been an identical failure and repair if originally tubed.
So that's a wash.
I've had one cut that I successfully repaired with a plug.
So that's a win.
I've had many punctures on road that sealed with minimal pressure loss.
That's a win.
I've had many frustrating sessions in the garage trying to successfully tape a rim, trying to seat a tire, trying to remove a tire.
That's not a win. I'm getting better, perhaps have taping figured out, which is huge.
IMO, road tubeless is not as great as often reported, not as easy as often suggested. But still an overall improvement.
I just rode a 400k brevet, pretty sure my rear tire (gp5k) settled down to 20psi for the last 200 miles. I could have stopped and tubed it, but meh - which itself is a tubeless win.
Unlike others who've had no on road issues, I've had several. Cut sidewalls requiring boot and tube (3), tread cuts that did not seal (2). Every one of those would have been an identical failure and repair if originally tubed.
So that's a wash.
I've had one cut that I successfully repaired with a plug.
So that's a win.
I've had many punctures on road that sealed with minimal pressure loss.
That's a win.
I've had many frustrating sessions in the garage trying to successfully tape a rim, trying to seat a tire, trying to remove a tire.
That's not a win. I'm getting better, perhaps have taping figured out, which is huge.
IMO, road tubeless is not as great as often reported, not as easy as often suggested. But still an overall improvement.
I just rode a 400k brevet, pretty sure my rear tire (gp5k) settled down to 20psi for the last 200 miles. I could have stopped and tubed it, but meh - which itself is a tubeless win.
I see it as a worthwhile trade-off.
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05-13-24, 05:49 PM
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Thanks for the congrats, but bragging was not the point, as I suspect many bf'ers regularly do more impressive rides.
The point, as outlined in the original post, is that my riding conditions are mine -- and in those conditions, I benefit from tubeless tires. The post is addressed to those bf'ers who can't fathom that other people may not ride for the same reasons, or on the same roads, as they do.
As for the OT posts about pool noodles and injecting sealant into tubes...well, that's just the sort of dross that lands in almost every bf thread.
The point, as outlined in the original post, is that my riding conditions are mine -- and in those conditions, I benefit from tubeless tires. The post is addressed to those bf'ers who can't fathom that other people may not ride for the same reasons, or on the same roads, as they do.
As for the OT posts about pool noodles and injecting sealant into tubes...well, that's just the sort of dross that lands in almost every bf thread.
05-13-24, 06:34 PM
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It’s a bit different with mtb tyres where pinch flatting might require significantly higher pressure with a tubed tyre.
05-13-24, 06:40 PM
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With road tyres, pressure is related far more to tyre width/volume than whether or not tubeless. For the same width tyre, the recommended pressures are within a few psi for tubed vs tubeless.
It’s a bit different with mtb tyres where pinch flatting might require significantly higher pressure with a tubed tyre.
It’s a bit different with mtb tyres where pinch flatting might require significantly higher pressure with a tubed tyre.
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05-13-24, 06:51 PM
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The difference with road tyres is that the optimum running pressure (lowest rolling resistance) should be high enough to avoid pinch flats regardless. But you are correct in saying that you could run much lower tubeless pressures if you wanted to maximise ride comfort.
05-13-24, 08:13 PM
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05-13-24, 08:16 PM
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05-13-24, 10:31 PM
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The crap we put up with here from the resident bf buttheads, who can't even take a joke! Sheesh!
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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH !!