PromptCritical 

I'm trying my first tubeless setup and I guess I shouldn't be surprised that stuff is messy (use gloves next time genius).

So, the first time (w/o sealant) a soap test showed I had leaks around the valve stem. Replaced the "muc-off" valve with a Stan's valve and that fixed it.

Alas, with sealant, the tire leaked from 70# to 6# overnight (it didn't seem like it leaked in the first 30 minutes after I installed it).

I used a compressor to seat the tire, and it seems to have seated well (nice little pop and even all around). Tire is a new Conti GP5000.

So, the only (likely) other problem is the rim tape, right?

Trying to save the sealant is probably futile, but what's the best technique for minimizing the mess in taking the tire off and cleaning up? Does the sealant wash off with soap and water?

Also, is there a secret handshake to the tubeless rim tape?

RocThrower

When I remove a tubeless tire with sealant, I like to hang the tire on something so it's suspended, keeping the sealant at the bottom of the tire. If I try leaning the tire on something, it usually bends over against its own weight and the sealant pours onto the floor.

Did you make sure to orient the wheels in different directions to make sure you got the sealant distributed well?

I will also say the first time I taped some tubeless rims, I did a less than stellar job, and had air loss. I ended up redoing it after cleaning and drying the wheel really well and had success.

FBinNY 

If you already took it apart it's too late, but for next time.

Leave the tire on and look for evidence of sealant near the valve, along the rim, and at the spoke holes. That may give you a hint of the problem.

I don't and won't ride tubeless, but if I were to, I'd add a dye to the sealant as a telltale.

PromptCritical 

I hung up the wheel with the valve @ 8:00 to add the sealant, and then spun the tire in the bike fork for about 90 seconds. Left the tire with the valve @ 9:00 overnight. No telltale signs of sealant. What's the best way to clean up a significant amount of sealant? The kitchen would be great, but there are certain secondary problems with that idea.

PromptCritical 

Yeah, this (mis) adventure into tubless may be short-lived. OTOH, I've had two unexplained blowouts in the last couple weeks. One in the garage @ 2:00 am. It was so loud I was worried the neighbors would report a gunshot to 911. One yesterday on a ride with my daughter. We were about 20' from a nice lady and her daughter. They thought it was a gunshot and then gave her a ride home when we told them it was a bike flat.

FBinNY 

When hanging tires in the kitchen, take the wife out to dinner. Make it a long night, so she'll be too tired to go to the kitchen when you get home.

PromptCritical 

Last time I used the kitchen for mechanical stuff I killed the dishwasher (I thought the parts were pretty clean). I got away with it, but once was enough.

surak

I've never needed to wear gloves when dealing with sealant. Orange Seal just wipes off with a damp cloth.

It's a good idea to let the sealant coat the sidewall/rim interface well on first installation. Instead of leaving the wheels on the bike, give each a good shake while they're sideways and leave them for a bit that way (I place a wheel over a small bucket), then flip them over and repeat the shake and wait. If you can't clearly hear the sealant swishing, then you should add more to have enough to coat any initial gaps.

You can also use a syringe to suck most of the sealant out a tire through the valve before dismounting.

Steve B.

You are of course using the GP 5000 S TR tubeless version ?. They also make a regular 5000 that is a clincher/ non tubeless tire,

Troul 

i added some automotive dye in my last tubeless refresh. Havent had to look for it yet. it will not sadden me if it never is something I rely on.

PromptCritical 

Ahh, a syringe is a good idea. I shook the tire up quite a bit and the spun it on the bike forks and moved the bars from side to side while the wheel was spinning. Alas, due to a lot of fun in my youth and some time with Uncle Sam, the chances of me hearing anything like that are low.

Yes, it's tubeless , but I'll admit it took a trip to the garage to check.

PromptCritical 

What sort of dye? I'm not familiar with automotive dye, only machinist's blue.

FBinNY 

I'm a firm believer in Murphy's Law. If you dye the sealant, you'll never get to see the benefit, and that's fine by me.

PromptCritical 

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions!

Fundamental question. Since the leak is slow, and I can't find any trace of it, why isn't the sealant working? I thought it worked on small leaks. What am I missing here?

Is it likely to start working in a day or so?

PromptCritical 

Murphy is my cousin..........

Troul 

at Napa, advance, Autozone etc they sell dye for "diag testing" for each of the systems containing fluid. Some are only meant for certain fluids, however, the kind that has not presented an issue with the sealant was intended for R134a.

FBinNY 

The sealant needs some kind of flow rate to bring it to the leak and plug it.

Imagine a large flat bottomed sink. Plug the drain, pour some sand in, then fill it with water. When you yank the plug, water races to the drain take the sand with it and you get a clog.

But if you do the same thing, except make a tiny hole in the plug instead of yanking it. The water seeps out very slowly without moving the sand and doesn't cause a clog.

Since the most likely single place for a leak is at the valve, or maybe the valve itself, I'd try again, but put thr valve at the bottom.

Barry2 

In the beginning there was GP 5000 TL.... and all was well.

Then came GP 5000 S TR and all was not so well. <<Clickable link to post
The their attempt to make the tire lighter, the butyl layer was removed from inside the tire.
The compromised the porosity of the tire especially the side walls.

I'd been using Stan's sealant with the GP 5000 TL for 1000's of miles and no issue.
But the GP 5000 S TR would go flat overnight when using Stan's.
One GP 5000 S TR user posted a youtube video of bubbles coming through the side walls.

I changed to Orange Seal Regular and the S TR pressure loss got a lot better. Not a perfect as the original TL version, but good enough.

Hope this helps

Barry

Mtracer

Rim tape is certainly a likely issue. The other is where the valve stem seats against the rim. Of course a bad or loose valve core can be an issue. Oddly, I've had the best luck with the Muc-Off valve stems. But they do come with three different shaped seals, and of course rims are not all shaped the same.

As for the mess, I inject the sealant into the tire through the valve stem, with the core removed. If I need to remove a tire, I'll suck out most of the sealant the same way. I found this inexpensive syringe kit on Amazon that works really well.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also, while I always need sealant to truly seal the tire, once mounted without sealant, it's usually clear in short order if the tire is generally sealing well. For example, give it an hour. If it is still holding air, it likely will seal well once you add sealant.

There are other possibilities. Quite a few tubeless tires actually leak through the sidewalls. It can take some time for the sealant to plug this. And in some case it may never. I've had the worse luck with Stans sealant in this regard. While Stans plugs true punctures really well, I find it doesn't do a good job coating the inner walls of tires and plugging these micro leaks. While I'm sure there are many other good sealants, I'm pleased with Orange Seal.

Finally I'll add that I find it sometimes takes several rides before the tire completely seals. It's just takes some riding to get the sealant sloshed around to all the nooks and crannies.

PromptCritical 

Great analogy - thanks.

I'll give Orange Seal a try - thanks.

Orange Seal it is!

SoSmellyAir

Other BF members gave me good advice here:

Noob Question re: Tubeless Valves - Bike Forums

In addition to the advice in that thread and above, I think another key is to tighten the tubeless valve stem just right so that it is tight enough to form a seal with the help of the sealant, but not so tight that the grommet between the tubeless valve stem and the rim bed gets deformed.

Barry2 

Orange Seal comes in different versions, give the Regular a try.
Orange Seal claims Regular seals better than Endurance.

All the best

Barry

PromptCritical 

Excellent - thanks.

Amazon by tomorrow!

PromptCritical 

A few folks have mentioned the rim tape installation is critical. What are the pitfalls and secrets to that?

FBinNY 

No secrets. Just diligence. Line up and press down thoroughly.