AdventureManCO 

FIFY lol

cudak888 

I finally found an opportunity to the Moulton side-by-side with my original '70 Twenty.









While the wheelbases and overall length differ between the two - the Twenty easily an inch shorter - putting them side-by-side, especially in person, makes it very clear that Raleigh's engineers outright copied the main not-a-triangle off the Moulton. The angles look different because of the different kickstand lean between both bikes + the iPhone's lens distortion and whatever other post filters it has built in, but the angle of every tube is practically identical between the two bikes - as is the effective top tube length.



The interesting thing is that the Moulton is properly sized with an adult rider in mind, but it feels (and is) much more fragile. The Twenty, on the other hand, could have easily benefitted from an XL model with a taller headtube and seattube, yet, the frame feels as if it was intended for riding through solid block walls.





The tires on the Twenty have lasted at least 15 years. Probably longer. @pastorbobnlnh, by any chance, do you recall if I had this one before you shipped me the 1980 Sports, or after?

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

Kurt, I don't recall you obtaining the 20 until after I sent you the Sports, which IIRC was in 2006 or 2007 at the latest.

Thanks for the side by side pictures.

cudak888 

Thanks, Bob. The Sports was 2006; it arrived just before the '51 Sports frameset showed up from NY.

I know the Twenty happened after one of the Coral Ridge Mall shows; one of the participants looked at the display and asked if I was seeking a Twenty. Clearly, the answer was "yes" and the itch got scratched.

My records of the Coral Ridge shows only go back to the two last shows though, and from the years of shuffling the files around from drive to drive, they've lost their original creation date. Pretty much anything pre-2012 isn't properly timestamped anymore, but at least I have servers to keep data consolidated now.

Speaking of weird folders, the latest itch I want to scratch is the Dahon Jifo Uno. I know they're modern and the presence of any Brompton renders them irrelevant, but they're just wacky enough to appeal to the type of person who has purposefully owned a Birdy BD-1.




-Kurt

3speedslow

Try it, you might like it!

cudak888 

I tried the Jifo Uno at an LBS; they have one that's quietly not marked 5-year-old NOS stock on the floor. They're also trying to ask 800 clams for it.

This is the same shop that has 1990's stuff still on the floor NOS and being sold for their original prices adjusted for inflation, so there's no chance anything will change there. It's a discontinued 2017 model with a general reputation for being worse at what it does than the competition (with exception to being wacky and interesting), being sold at its MSRP on the floor.

A new 7-speed Vybe is $549 with 20" wheels, an actual proper extending stem, a 7-speed derailer setup, and the only thing one could argue between the two prices is that the Vybe D7 is boring beyond belief.

-Kurt

SirMike1983 

They're both nice bikes. The Moulton has a certain "industrial artwork" type look to it and is more interesting. I agree the Twenty has a solid ride. I had an early '70s Twenty, which I ultimately sold to a grad student living Boston. Mine had a solid ride to it. I could see it being a nice rider for someone living in an apartment up there. Whenever I'd show a picture of it online, someone would PM or email asking where to get a frame pump for their Twenty. I guess most of them are missing now (?). In fact, I still occasionally get asked where to find a frame pump for the Twenty, even 5 years after selling it.

AdventureManCO 

Lol...what? So they've actually put more price stickers on their old stuff over the cheaper sticker prices with even higher prices of stuff that people didn't want even at the lower prices? I wonder if that is a 'old bike shop' phenomenon.

Great to see the Moulton.

cudak888 

Yep. I can recall an NOS, entry-level steel triple-triangle GT that was marked at least $100 or $200 more than its 1990's asking price on the floor. This was a while back and the old stock on the floor is a lot less, but they also have a much better store manager running it now who has sold a lot of the older stock via eBay. Prices still tend to reflect the shop ownership, however.

They have old-stock phenomenon; they're the butt of a few local shops' jokes. Mind, around here, the local shops don't work together.

I kid you not, the Moulton makes me lonesome for the Birdy. I only learned last night that - as I suspected- Birdy makes handlebar stems with different forward angles, thus directly influencing top tube length. This is documented with respect to their current models and not the BD1, but I'm certain now that I've spotted at least three alternative stem angles on the original BD-1s. This one was middle-of-the-road, and had it been the more relaxed variant, I probably would have fitted this thing. Pic is of it in its 2021 for-sale configuration.



-Kurt

zandoval 

Found a pretty good match to the font if you decide to make your own decals, or use the Helicopter Tape decal method. Attached is a .pdf-.svg for higher resolution if needed.


See #136: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...l#post23239555

cudak888 

I'm pretty sure it's Helvetica, but it's the kerning of the font that's difficult to get right.

I won't re-do these (and if I did, I'd want them to be waterslide like the originals; never seems to be the case with the repros), but if I did, I'd probably photograph the original with a telephoto lens, bring it into Illustrator, size up some Helvetica to match perfectly, and then convert the text to vector points to match any oddities from the Helvetica font that Moulton might have used.

It's interesting that Moulton went the full Unimark International route and made the visual identity of the bike seem very Euro / NYC subway - eschewing a "Gill Sans London Underground" look, and while mod, wasn't exactly hip either. On the other hand, whoever was at the helm for marketing the Raleigh-built Mk.III chose a variant of Letraset's Compacta typeface. I do wonder if The Avengers might have influenced it, in the context of the period during development.






-Kurt

AdventureManCO 

Is that a tennis ball in there?

Not that I think it's a bad idea.

AdventureManCO 

I start getting a little scared of ultra high seatposts, but I don't know if it is based in any kind of reality. The Trek 970 I just picked up is a little small for me, which means I've got about 8-9" of seatpost sticking out, which doesn't sound like a lot, until you get on the bike and look down and see things flexing down there. Then I see seatposts like the above and can't even understand how it works. It must be a diameter thing.

It's a good thing my handlebar-turned-seatpost for the Huffy only sticks up about 3 inches

tcs

All what you want out of life, I suppose. The Jifo weighs under 9kg. The Brompton design is brilliant, but for last mile + fourth-floor walk-up, I'd choose the Jifo.

cudak888 

It's an elastomer, like the Birdy.

The original post on the Birdy was cracked, but they crack at the clamp adjuster; something that could happen to any post of this design, regardless of height. The quill of the post itself seems to do just fine. Can't recall the post flexing.

Agreed, though the Jifo isn't exactly that easy to tote. It's a design that could have really used some kind of stowaway strap to grab it from, and a fold-down pad so the exposed bits don't poke one's shins.

-Kurt