runningDoc

15.9lbs is wicked awesome for that price and spec with local bike shop support and warranty.

great ride!

i do love the minimal branding “if you know you know… quiet luxury whispers” vibes.

before buying my aethos i was looking at a scott addict pro rc with full dura ace for double that price ($6.5k on sale from original msrp $10k) and it was also 15.9lbs.

the modern (hydraulic disc brake/12sp/electronic) stuff is just now getting lighter with expensive builds into the 18-19lbs range still.

msu2001la

The Aethos with 105 Di2 is an ideal road bike, IMO. It's light, fast, stylish and simple.
Well done!

NumbersGuy

And you are one individual with unknown qualifications, along with an obvious confirmation bias wanting to find them to be exactly the same. That has infinitesimally more than zero value to determining whether the two are exactly the same or not.

It could very well be that if given 10 different carbon layups from development testing, all painted the same, you'd think they were all exactly the same because your perception is set based on visual appearance. You may think you're a qualified expert to evaluate bikes, but that is not a fact in evidence.

runningDoc

i took a 10+ hiatus (got bored and didn’t buy a bike that whole time) from bike forums but also for the fact this forum became lame with unnecessary thread drifts muddied into toxicity.

unfortunately some things remained the same.

Jrasero

Again it doesn't matter if I examined the layup or if my friend and I cut up our frames to examine. The point is I actually have ridden the two bikes back to back and I know for certainty you have not. So we can go into all the theoretical about layups or my qualifications for reviewing bikes but the fact is I am the only person on this sub who can actually contest to the differences between the two bikes. You saying you need some white paper on the differences is mute and idiotic because again it simply doesn't matter since I actually used both bikes and I can't tell the difference. This is where cycling becomes this marketing circle jerk of listing off stats, when in reality the ultimate question is, how does it ride and does that enable you to go further and faster. Until you ride both bikes back to back any banter about layups or whatever is theoretical

Jrasero

My issue isn't whether you go big brand or direct to consumer Chinese but people are literally giving you takes on a bikes they have never road let alone probably seen. It be like a dentist giving an opinion to a cardiologist on how to do surgery. Forums become toxic when people can't over the fact that their opinion is simply not true or holds zero value and then become butt hurt because they are challenged on any validity. Congrats on the bike it's a great bike, but now that you mentioned you could have gotten a top of the line Scott Addict and me also being a Scott guy I probably would have gone with the Addict RC but that's maybe because one of my favorite bikes of all time was my previous Addict

Kai Winters

I work in a 'mom and pop' shop and we are a Spesh dealer but not 'owned' by them.
Depending on how 'spec' something from China, etc. it can be cheap junk or very high quality...it all depends on how it's designed and the materials, parts, etc. used.
Yes you can get some great products at very good prices buying direct from China, etc. You are cutting out all the 'in between' people, etc.

Kai Winters

Holy Moly I didn't realize Hambini is a member of our forum or that he uses a 'pen name'...

Jrasero

I think it was a cracked rim bed

PeteHski

Sorry, I'm just a bit sceptical of a cheap Chinese frame matching an S-Works Aethos in every respect. I mean it's only the lightest disc frame and fork on the planet with no rider weight restriction. But since you have ridden it and presumably an S-Works Aethos, then maybe it is a pretty good copy. Are there any reviews?

Caliwild

Exactly. Was contemplating taking a break as well for the same reason...

Maelochs

I have a Workswell 066---a clone of an old Cervelo R5 from the 2012-or-so era.

Awesome bike. Amazing ride, light frame (I think 870 grams for a 56? Not bad for dinosaur days.) Fun bike to ride.

I doubt it is the same as a Cervelo from the era. Workswell had a good reputation for making quality frames ( I spent over a year researching before I bought it) so I have never feared the bike would assplode. However, is it Identical to a real Cervelo? I am sure the engineers who reverse-engineered it were good, but did they take every bit as much time and care, did they use the same grades of cloth, did they copy every tiny detail ... the littlest things which give the Cervelo its performance ability?

Who knows? It is not Impossible that the engineers even improved the frame. However .... I would assume the engineers came "close enough" to build a light, strong frame (to protect their reputations, and because the factory does good work) and built a bike which is close enough to the original Cervelo for almost all riders.

I assume most riders aren't putting out 1500 watts on short punchy climbs, or on sprints, aren't descending at 100 kph and braking at maximum into corners ... I assume that Most riders don't ride at World Tour levels (else they would be on tour--and riding sponsored Cervelos.) I also assume that the Workswell is fine for most riders even at pretty high levels---a lot of Workswells were purchased by weight-weenie racers who wanted the edge of ultra-light (for the day) equipment but didn't have the dollars for the pro equipment. These bikes were getting raced, and hard ... but maybe not by the top five percent of the world;''s best, strongest, and most demanding. For the 95% they were working out just fine.

Thing is, I am not in the top five percent. I am not in the top fifty percent. When it comes to performance ... my FTP approaches three figures, some days. Tremble and weep, oh you would-be competitors! My watts per kilogram? One-half! Run in fear, would-be challengers.

Obviously within my limits a near-copy is as good as a real Cervelo. I am not feeling any bottom-bracket flex when I lay down my massive power ... but a pro rider might (and also might with the actual Cervelo, as it was more a climbing bike ... but ...)

The gentleman who claims to have ridden an Aethos and a knock-off and pronounced them to be identical in every regard ... Yeah. You believe what you want. That myth about factories making extras and smuggling them out the back door to sell at a cut price ... I have never bought it. If I had real Aethos frames from the factory ... I would build them up as real Aethos, and sell them for almost full price, because well ... that's what they were. Why take a huge price cut? Only someone who has never done business would think otherwise.

Almost certainly, the "Sohea" or whatever is a copy, a knock-off, a reverse-engineered imitation of the original, and almost certainly it uses slightly cheaper materials and the workers pay slightly less attention to absolute quality control---after all, if a bad run of Soheas come off the line, the company simply folds, and reorganizes under a different name and goes back to work---never even stops production. Good luck suing.

Here is what I found on Weight Weenies: "BigRock Sohea, which he has started selling on PandaPodium and got me thinking about an experiment to see how close it a well built Chinese frame can get on ride quality, but with the improved aesthetics (at least in my opinion!) of full cable integration. Looks wise there are clear differences, but the geometry is pretty much identical.

Picture below, but there is so little online about them, this is the all there is. My view is that whilst Aethos inspired, it is clearly not a clone; fully integrated cabling, T47 BB, scalloped seat tube, different fork profile, etc (https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=175073)"

Also, this: "Didn't you know the Onirii One? has been available for a long time https://es.aliexpress.com/item/10050047 ... pt=glo2esp

or this other Onirii clone https://es.aliexpress.com/item/10050046 ... pt=glo2esp" from the same thread.

Flyxii has been building bikes for a couple decades at least ... not sure BigRock or Orirli would stick around for a major lawsuit ... and suing Any Chinese firm from over seas ... good luck.

Point is this: These companies are Not doing ground-up designs or builds to compete with the pro-level offerings of major manufacturers. They are building serviceable bikes which get raced by really enthusiastic amateurs. The differences between frames is probably at a level where few riders would feel it or find it.

However ... to claim they are the same or perform the same or have identical performance .... I don't doubt that is what a lot of riders might feel but I doubt it is fact.

I would definitely build a Sohea or one of the other light frames listed there, If I were going to build another climbing bike (price of parts is too high for me to bother building a whole new bike just to shave 100 grams off the frame) I would certainly look at a knock-off. But I would not try to tell people it could do everything the original could do. How would I even know?

NumbersGuy

So, you're saying that you're making the forums toxic? Agreed!

tomato coupe

This doesn't even pass the sniff test. For one, the frames are built with different bottom brackets, they come in different sizes, and the weights are different. But more importantly, Specialized would never tolerate it if their contract manufacturer was providing a Specialized-designed frame to another bike company that was undercutting Specialized's prices.

NumbersGuy

Along with a different shaped seat tube, different cable routing, different shaped fork legs, etc. etc. Yeah, they're clearly the same exact frame... Then there's that niggling fact of Specialized being half owned by a company with a massive carbon bike factory in Taiwan. Clearly this manufacturer in China makes the Aethos and sells the exact same frame as a BigRock. Don't let facts get in the way of what Jrasero knows is true.

jonathanf2

If money was no object, I'd definitely get an S-Works Aethos for road and a Crux for gravel in my stable. Mainly because those bike resonate with me in terms of classic design and functionality.

Saying that, I support more of these affordable bike frames/components to becoming accessible for a wider demographic of cycling enthusiasts. I feel like there's so much gatekeeping, misinformation and borderline racism in the bike scene. Reading some of these ignorant comments, I'd probably avoid more than half of you on a group ride!

Caliwild

So much for that...

Maelochs

To add to the list of those who answered the OP's question, yes, it sounds like a great deal (if you are in the market for such a bike, and have the cash, and all the other particulars which we assume because you are asking but might not be true .... )

You could probably swap the wheels and saddle and have something approaching a budget superbike....... of course a racer would want a more aero bike, but unless you race with dedication or for money .... A lot of Aethos owners seem to mention its ride quality, and based on that input it seems like it would be a fun, responsive bike, though possibly 45 seconds slower on a 100-mile dash ... which is what we all care about, right? On another hand, it might be first up that ten-km, ten-percent grade---the sort of thing we all ride regularly, right?

I find a light bike fun to ride because the immediate sensation matters more to me than the numbers at the end of the ride. By the time I look at the numbers the ride is over anyway ..... not saying that is the right way, but if that makes sense to you ... snatch up that thing while you can.

badger1

Strong words. Where, exactly, in this thread do you find "misinformation" and "borderline racism", along with "ignorant [sic] comments"? If you can't cite specific examples in this thread to support those claims, then why are you making those claims in the context of this thread?

To this point, the only questionable comment(s) I see in this thread are those from an individual who makes the fallacious claim that because he has ridden both an Aethos frame and a non-Specialized knock-off and he can detect no difference, therefore there is no difference between the two. That is about as weak sauce as it gets.

runningDoc

“racism” is a strong statement when we know that even the major brands halo super bikes are made in Taiwan now.

in the car parts industry J Spec (meaning made in japan) usually connotes the highest level of manufacturing.

in the past japan and taiwan were known to have lower quality products but over time it’s flipped to mean the opposite: they have to off load a lot of the production from taiwan to mainland china because the taiwan labor is now high quality/engineers/worker's salary too expensive.

heck within 20 years kia went from laughably bad quality to a great car. samsung makes great phones.

Jrasero

The gentleman who claims to have ridden an Aethos and a knock-off and pronounced them to be identical in every regard ... Yeah. You believe what you want. That myth about factories making extras and smuggling them out the back door to sell at a cut price ... I have never bought it. If I had real Aethos frames from the factory ... I would build them up as real Aethos, and sell them for almost full price, because well ... that's what they were. Why take a huge price cut? Only someone who has never done business would think otherwise.
[/QUOTE]

One it's not a claim but a fact that I have ridden both bikes. Two, like you mentioned in your Cervelo ramblings, a knock off Aethos or whatever bike could be indistinguishable to us non pros and yeah maybe a pro putting down 500 watts will feel it but here is where I know from actually riding both bikes that you are so ill informed because the Aethos to begin with while stiff for its weight, in my personal real life experience is pretty noddle like at the bottom bracket and the rear. No I couldn't objectively measure each bikes stiffness, but to me and my 138lb body it felt identical when putting down power. More than likely the Sohtea is just a Aethos clone, yeah sure I will give you that but this is like me debating torque vectoring in a Kia versus an Audi and just because one is named Quattro saying the other system is vastly inferior. I think the idea that ONLY Specialized uses a certain carbon weave or resin or only they know how to lay the carbon to get the feel of an Aethos is moronic because at the end of the day whether it be a car or a bike yeah, certain manufactures will do certain things better but the concepts are widely known and not proprietary or even patented. We can debate on the customer service and warranty for a Chinese brand like Sohtea and we can debate even if a sub $2K frame is worth the savings compared to the "real deal", but again as someone who have the "real" 685g Fact 10r Aethos I can tell you that for me and probably for every member on here that the Sohtea feels exactly the same.

asgelle

If a company did have proprietary knowledge, how would you know?

NumbersGuy

You also stated the frames look identical, which has subsequently been shown to not even be close to true as there are significant differences which are clearly visible. Makes it very questionable whether you are speaking all lies or just some lies.

shelbyfv

PeteHski

So why is it only Specialized and apparently this Chinese clone (which on inspection isn’t even a clone) are apparently able to produce such a lightweight frameset with no restrictive rider weight limit? The S-Works Aethos in particular is exceptionally light for a bike that isn’t unduly fragile.

Specialized claims that much of the Aethos design strength was due to their specific choice of tube profiles, which this clone hasn’t even closely copied.

What is really moronic here is the idea that this “clone” is the exact same Aethos S-Works frameset, as you appeared to be suggesting earlier in the thread. It might ride well enough and it looks vaguely like an Aethos, but that’s about all you can claim. You don’t even know if it will go the distance at such a light weight. Like I noticed they bottled out on the ultra-thin Aethos fork profile. Why would they do that if they are in fact producing the real thing?