Korina

You don't even have to guess.

https://www.abc10.com/article/news/l...2-324e696eae95

Troul 

thats where easy revenue can be had... ticket them instead of adding obstructions that cost $

FBinNY 

Yep, use cameras similar to speed cameras, and set a fine at $500.

They, can even do it on the cheap with signs "No cars", "$500 fine", "Camera Enforced".

If the signs alone don't work, then install the cameras.

indyfabz

Because bollards are so difficult to negotiate,

Troul 

Because everyone can afford more taxes devoted to junk ideas.

RB1-luvr

holy crap.

Iride01 

It's not surprising. What I didn't hear is that anyone has ever reported this to law enforcement for the year it's been said to be happening. But then again is there any enforcement built in to the ordinance that says motor vehicles are prohibited? Although perhaps reckless driving might apply in some states.

slow rollin

Sactown is wild, that's for sure. I do see local park rangers on side by sides and sometimes trucks but they are nice and leave us riders plenty of room. One of these days I will have to venture out there.

Steve B.

They can be badly designed. The bollards on a path in Eisenhower County Park, in Hempstead, NY, were originally about 4” wide and painted the same color yellow as the lane divider paint on the trail surface. This resulted in many people not seeing the bollard, as it blended with the pavement lane markings. A buddy subsequently hit one while riding here, was really banged up. The county finally got around to painting the bollards bright red, I understand.

Korina

The city put in a MUP a few years ago and at the trailhead some wit decided to install two bollards, one in the center of each lane. It was quickly fixed.

RCMoeur 

Bicyclists have been killed and crippled from hitting bollards, and agencies have paid out large judgments and settlements from bollard-related crashes.

Good current design guidance on the use of bollards is: "Don't use bollards unless the risk of motor vehicle intrusion is greater than the risk of a rider being seriously injured from hitting it." And: "Don't place bollards in the cyclist's direct path of travel, including tandems, trailers, and adult tricycles."

The MUTCD requires all obstructions in the traveled way of a path to be marked with retroreflective material.

BTinNYC 

A bike is an e-bike is a Tesla is a truck.

Korina

Tell that to my local municipalities; they installed bollards at each end of every bridge, and our trails have a lot of bridges. I'd rather they put them where the cars can get in, but what do I know?

Duragrouch

When I was young, older teen kids would run over peoples' mailboxes out at the road for fun. My dad got tired of it. He sunk a piece of solid steel, I think about 1-1/2" x 3" section, a few feet deep into concrete, sticking up from the ground about 10", with the mailbox post attached at the bottom with bolts sawn most of the way through. Next time a car hit it, the post bolts sheared off and it swung down, and the base took out I think, the right front tie-rod and lower control arm, this being based on the screeching sound and skid marks down the pavement of a sideways wheel. Next day, dad just raised the mailbox post and rebolted it. Never happened again.

The only problem I can see with bike trails, is that you need vehicle passage for ambulance/fire-department for injuries or sudden illness. Otherwise I'd say make passage at each access point, smaller than car-width except perhaps a micro, or a tight chicane. A bridge over a gap obstacle, can easily support 4 bikes and riders, but a car or truck instantly drops 2 feet, not enough to injure inside, but with sheer walls front and back, impossible for vehicle to drive out of there. To release vehicle, platform is unlocked and rotated 90 degrees to line up with escape path. And driver fined.

FBinNY 

A difference in worldview. You're focused on protecting cyclists. They're focused on protecting their bridges, and the fools who might try to drive over them.

Iride01 

Our MUP has a wooden bridge. It has a bollard in the middle of both entrances. The 3 or 4 newer bridges are steel and concrete. They don't have bollards.

While I don't know for certain I believe it's because the wooden bridge wasn't designed for the heavier axle loads of motor vehicles and the other bridges are. While motor vehicle use is prohibited, they still have to allow for emergency vehicles and maintenance crews along the path. The wood bridge is short and has a alternate path around it that maintenance and emergency vehicles can use.

rumrunn6

the one that my Wife crashed into & then fell & broker her wrist at, was the site of multiple crashes & the bollard is all scratched up from others crashing. the beach attendant nearby, who came running over to help, told me what a disaster that particular bollard was. when ppl cycle past the beach, they inevitably look at the beach. the bollard in question is not at the intersection of the road & the bike trail, it's several yards in. on the day she crashed, it was a sunny day & the tree shadows masked the bollard. she wears eye glasses, so her vision is not great to begin with & who knows if there was glare on her glasses. yes, I saw the bollard & rode a round it, but she did not. & others did not. sticking an object in the path of a moving vehicle, hoping that the obstacle will affect behavior isn't always successful. it relies on ppl reacting the way you expect. but ppl can be unpredictable

there are better ways to keep cars off bike paths. personally, I like the big gate or fence approach, which force a rider to walk thru a little maze of sorts, rather than ride straight

a bollard is like hoping ppl stop at stop signs

Troul 

a wide variety of reasons for/against mup prevention designs exists, but the design should not cause more harm than good to the legit end user.

Troul 

that seems to be answered within the same text,

Iride01 

But can you confirm it and say absolutely?

I would have thought that if the bridge wasn't suitable, that they'd also have weight limits posted for the bridge or axle weight limits. But they don't.

And the other path is just a section of old trail before they rerouted and put in the bridge.

FBinNY 

I have no problem with bollards centered at the ends of MUPs. But under some conditions.

First they must be over 5 feet tall, and painted brightly or reflective at the top. This would make them as visible as pedestrians.

Secondly, there must be a stop sign, warning, or other signage to slow cyclists as they approach.

If done right, they can be safe, or at least there would be no excuse for crashing into them.

work4bike

The AT (Appalachian Trail) only permits foot travel. They have no bollards, they enforce it by making the trail extremely rugged and impassable by wheeled contraptions.


Maybe those to build MUPS can do the same thing, of course not as rugged

Korina

True, especially as all the bridges and boardwalks are aluminum (resistant to salt water), but I'd still rather they blocked car access.

The trail in Eureka has dark brown(!!) bollards; I questioned the color at the time, but the city guy responsible for getting the trail liked the color and wasn't interested in changing it; probably something to do with taggers. They at least have red/white reflective tape at the top now; woo. This is the same guy who left a 1/2 mile gap in the trail and called it done (he's the city manager now). My city of Arcata put in hi-viz yellow bollards because they're not stupid.

RCMoeur 

Sounds like a lot of people here are trying to design vehicle intrusion countermeasures on pathways. There has been decades of experience and practice in this area, most notably in the current AASHTO Guide for Bicycle Facilities. The bigger issue is that designers and agencies either aren't aware of this guidance or choose not to follow it. And I know of a few people who make a good living as expert witnesses testifying against public agencies in court when bicyclists are hurt, crippled, or killed on a path and it can be linked to a design or operational decision involving a fixed object in the travel way of a path.

A number of reports describe a situation where there are several riders on a path, a rider in the front of the group sees a bollard and swerves, and a following rider sees the bollard only after the rider ahead moves laterally and does not react in time to avoid a crash - even if it meets all recommended guidance on conspicuity and retroreflectivity.

Troul 

that just seems like a lot of work & thought to make it safe....