Tire stuck on rim
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Tire stuck on rim [solved]
New-ish fulcrum rim, Pirelli P-zero tire. The bead of the tire is stuck so firmly to the hook of the rim that I can't squeeze it into the middle with my hands, and my plastic pliers did nothing. The bead is so stuck up into the hook that the tire lever won't wedge in between, I even tried jamming a flat screw driver and turning it, but that did nothing. It's not that I can't get the bead levered, it's that I can't get the lever between the bead and the rim at all. The air is all out of the tube. I've been changing tires for 50 years, easily thousands of them and never run into this.
What am I missing?
Jon.
What am I missing?
Jon.
Last edited by jesnow; 05-22-24 at 09:22 PM.
#2
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,940
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3816 Post(s)
Liked 5,840 Times
in
2,952 Posts
Secure the wheel on the floor and mash the bead off with your heel.
Likes For shelbyfv:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,174
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4239 Post(s)
Liked 3,976 Times
in
2,363 Posts
New-ish fulcrum rim, Pirelli P-zero tire. The bead of the tire is stuck so firmly to the hook of the rim that I can't squeeze it into the middle with my hands, and my plastic pliers did nothing. The bead is so stuck up into the hook that the tire lever won't wedge in between, I even tried jamming a flat screw driver and turning it, but that did nothing. It's not that I can't get the bead levered, it's that I can't get the lever between the bead and the rim at all. The air is all out of the tube. I've been changing tires for 50 years, easily thousands of them and never run into this.
What am I missing?
Jon.
What am I missing?
Jon.
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,632
Bikes: 06 Lemond Reno, 98 GT Timberline mtn.bike
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked 733 Times
in
454 Posts
Might try heating the tire with a hair blow dryer on high to see if it makes the tire more pliable. Have no idea if this will work, but nothing to lose by trying.
Likes For freeranger:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 39,099
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5995 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times
in
1,627 Posts
It shouldn't be this way, but sadly is.
Many years ago I had a tire that dry rotted and glued itself to the rim. Fortunately, I like oysters. My oyster knife* bailed me out. I tapped it in radially, then alternately twisted and advanced until I'd "cut" my way all the way around the rim.
*For those who don't know, oyster knives are pointy but dull, made for prying rather than cutting.
Many years ago I had a tire that dry rotted and glued itself to the rim. Fortunately, I like oysters. My oyster knife* bailed me out. I tapped it in radially, then alternately twisted and advanced until I'd "cut" my way all the way around the rim.
*For those who don't know, oyster knives are pointy but dull, made for prying rather than cutting.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Finally solved. That was a b*tch! In the end I used the "perch it on the edge of a 2x4 and stand on it" method, as recommended by youtube videos on how you change a car tire by hand. It seems that I am indeed failing to adjust to "how things are" in the modern world. It used to be that bike tires were engineered to be field-replaceable, but that is no longer true, at least not for road-tubeless. That's just how it is. They fit very tight on the rim, almost impossible to mount with regular tire levers, and you need compressed air to seat them. Once they're on they require special tools to unseat. Or a 2x4 and some patience. I'm sure I can make a press that will squeeze the bead off the rim (like you do for a car tire) by modifying an existing tool of some kind.
But just forget fixing a flat road tubeless tire in the middle of nowhere. Back in the day tires *had* to be field serviceable because there were no cell phones and the nearest pay phone might be miles away.
Thanks to everyone who made suggestions!
But just forget fixing a flat road tubeless tire in the middle of nowhere. Back in the day tires *had* to be field serviceable because there were no cell phones and the nearest pay phone might be miles away.
Thanks to everyone who made suggestions!
Likes For jesnow:
#7
Newbie
I had this same problem with a newish tubeless rim at the co-op recently. Really difficult to break the seal with the rim. Turns out it was a square bead/bead hook which I had not seen before. Head mechanic with gorilla hands finally got it free for me. Then replacing it was a bit like a car tire, used lots of soapy water all around the rim and the air compressor and you could hear it snapping back into the bead hook as the air pressure increased. I learned something new but in no hurry to work on one of these again.
#8
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 15,347
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6387 Post(s)
Liked 4,982 Times
in
3,430 Posts
On tubeless rims there is usually a bump on the inboard side of the bead seat. Combined with rim tape overlapping it, I'm sure it makes for more difficult bead breaking and perhaps bead seating too in some circumstances.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: USA - Southwest PA
Posts: 3,308
Bikes: Cannondale - Gary Fisher - Giant - Litespeed - Schwinn Paramount - Schwinn (lugged steel) - Trek OCLV
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1468 Post(s)
Liked 2,109 Times
in
1,188 Posts
this is why I now often curse the tubeless world
![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Likes For t2p:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 7,067
Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3367 Post(s)
Liked 2,198 Times
in
1,246 Posts
It does indeed. That tubeless “ledge” is what helps a tubeless tire seat and hold air. Useless if using a tube. You have to make sure the bead of any tire is sitting in the middle channel when mounting or removing, tire will not go on or come off if your don’t do this. I like my tubeless systems, but the ledge design sure does make it a royal pain.
Likes For Steve B.:
#11
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 15,347
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6387 Post(s)
Liked 4,982 Times
in
3,430 Posts
It does indeed. That tubeless “ledge” is what helps a tubeless tire seat and hold air. Useless if using a tube. You have to make sure the bead of any tire is sitting in the middle channel when mounting or removing, tire will not go on or come off if your don’t do this. I like my tubeless systems, but the ledge design sure does make it a royal pain.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 7,067
Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3367 Post(s)
Liked 2,198 Times
in
1,246 Posts
Likes For Steve B.:
#13
don't try this at home.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,991
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 989 Post(s)
Liked 539 Times
in
369 Posts
I've had my HED Ardennes+ wheels for 9 years. They are "tubeless ready", with a channel for the bead. When I pump up a new tire and the pressure reaches about 50-70 psi, the bead snaps into the channel with a loud, startling Pop! (the bead stayed in the channel on each of the few flats I've had -- way better than a tire that completely comes off the rim.)
The older Continental GP5000 tires were reasonably easy to unseat, pulling hard with my fingers over the top from the opposite side.
Mounting tires is pretty easy, with just one lever.
But in the last few years (maybe 4 years now?), the 5000 tires are very very difficult to get the bead starting to unseat.
Hair dryers worked last year. This year, I just couldn't get the tire off -- a stronger rider pulled it loose before one of our group rides.
There's no room to slide anything under the bead, like a putty knife or small screwdriver. They will damage the tire and/or rim and still not get under the bead.
It's still not hard to mount the tire. One Pedro lever, lifting less than an inch at a time, then slide it over slightly and repeat. That's fast and efficient.
Wood tools for tire bead removal.
Adapted from a youtube demo. (Another mechanic used one of those wood clamps that have two fat wood arms and two threaded rods to tighten them.) I have a couple of scrap wood pieces now, to try the next time. a 1x4 to rest the rim on, with the wheel laid flat on the ground. And a 15 inch 1x2 with the end sandpapered a bit rounder, to lay on the tire just above the rim, and use body weight to pop it loose. I haven't had to try this yet.
The older Continental GP5000 tires were reasonably easy to unseat, pulling hard with my fingers over the top from the opposite side.
Mounting tires is pretty easy, with just one lever.
But in the last few years (maybe 4 years now?), the 5000 tires are very very difficult to get the bead starting to unseat.
Hair dryers worked last year. This year, I just couldn't get the tire off -- a stronger rider pulled it loose before one of our group rides.
There's no room to slide anything under the bead, like a putty knife or small screwdriver. They will damage the tire and/or rim and still not get under the bead.
It's still not hard to mount the tire. One Pedro lever, lifting less than an inch at a time, then slide it over slightly and repeat. That's fast and efficient.
Wood tools for tire bead removal.
Adapted from a youtube demo. (Another mechanic used one of those wood clamps that have two fat wood arms and two threaded rods to tighten them.) I have a couple of scrap wood pieces now, to try the next time. a 1x4 to rest the rim on, with the wheel laid flat on the ground. And a 15 inch 1x2 with the end sandpapered a bit rounder, to lay on the tire just above the rim, and use body weight to pop it loose. I haven't had to try this yet.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 7,067
Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3367 Post(s)
Liked 2,198 Times
in
1,246 Posts
The wheels on my new Emonda are Bontrager tubeless ready. When I installed some Conti GP5000 S TR tires, initially with tubes, they were a royal PITA to get onto the rims. I have one of those Kool Stop install tools which worked, but I don’t carry that on the road and pondered how to fix a flat. That pushed me to run tubeless, as the sealant at least helps prevent flats and then I (maybe) won’t need to put a new tube in,
#15
Passista
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,660
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 890 Post(s)
Liked 754 Times
in
412 Posts
Finally solved. That was a b*tch! In the end I used the "perch it on the edge of a 2x4 and stand on it" method, as recommended by youtube videos on how you change a car tire by hand. It seems that I am indeed failing to adjust to "how things are" in the modern world. It used to be that bike tires were engineered to be field-replaceable, but that is no longer true, at least not for road-tubeless. That's just how it is. They fit very tight on the rim, almost impossible to mount with regular tire levers, and you need compressed air to seat them. Once they're on they require special tools to unseat. Or a 2x4 and some patience. I'm sure I can make a press that will squeeze the bead off the rim (like you do for a car tire) by modifying an existing tool of some kind.
But just forget fixing a flat road tubeless tire in the middle of nowhere. Back in the day tires *had* to be field serviceable because there were no cell phones and the nearest pay phone might be miles away.
Thanks to everyone who made suggestions!
But just forget fixing a flat road tubeless tire in the middle of nowhere. Back in the day tires *had* to be field serviceable because there were no cell phones and the nearest pay phone might be miles away.
Thanks to everyone who made suggestions!
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,542
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1649 Post(s)
Liked 1,875 Times
in
1,041 Posts
I don’t know how it is on a Fulcrum wheel, but on a Mavic Crossroc wheel, there is a break in the bead ledge, right opposite from the valve hole:
![](https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/2000x1504/fd715b1a_bdb4_4809_8222_6fcd80332f49_04e0cc5a557cfff5af70b93e90af1ae62d5bc30c.jpeg)
^ You can see the bead ledge has been milled flat at this spot. This is where you start pushing the bead off the shelf. Pushing anywhere else is an exercise in frustration.
![](https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/2000x1504/fd715b1a_bdb4_4809_8222_6fcd80332f49_04e0cc5a557cfff5af70b93e90af1ae62d5bc30c.jpeg)
^ You can see the bead ledge has been milled flat at this spot. This is where you start pushing the bead off the shelf. Pushing anywhere else is an exercise in frustration.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 39,099
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5995 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times
in
1,627 Posts
Clincher tires have improved greatly since i started riding tubulars in 67. I was getting fairly close to moving back to clinchers, but this, and so many other reports of mounting/discounting issues will prevent that.
I'm routinely way too far from home, and sometimes civilization on tours trade away field servicability.
I'm routinely way too far from home, and sometimes civilization on tours trade away field servicability.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.