IcySwan1 

I had a seller back out off a deal because he said it would cost $400 to ship a Serrota frame set to Alaska, even after we agreed on a price to ship it here.

2 years ago it cost $550 to ship a Bianchi from Oregon to Alaska on BikeFlight.

Those costs are oppressive but real.

Mike

Kabuki12

merziac i think it was about $95 including insurance when I shipped with bike flights with my modified box. It was my Colnago so I insured it for $1k. That was 3 or 4 years ago. Joe

merziac

Alaska, whole other can of worms, when Bflights went to UPS it really sucked and does even more now.

The last two frames I paid to get to me were $75 and $125, not bad considering but I think the shippers had it screwed down like normal folk can't do.

If either of them had jacked around, I would have cratered my efbay deal and never gone back, glad they worked out while being ok for the now times.

curbtender

Recently sent a Gary Fischer hardtail to my son with Bikeflights it was $200. 47 pounds.

FrejusFlyer

Dang, I can't get my boxes anywhere near that small for a normal size bike. I usually leave the rear wheel on to protect the triangle and RD. I guess I could take them both off, but where do you put the rear wheel? The front wheel is already taking most of the side space up along the frame.

cleverbeefalo

I think this is a huge part of it.

From my perspective -- I bought a vintage road bike because the price was right. After the purchase I started learning more and more about classic bikes, but if money wasn't a barrier I wouldn't be dealing with C&V at all. Don't get me wrong, I love my classic bike and have been putting in a light 100 miles per week on it. To get there I spent what I consider a lot of money to have a semi-comfy cool-looking bike. I learned how to build rims so I could have 650b with fatter 38c tires. I bought a long gooseneck stem after my first ride because I didn't love the stretch to reach the hoods. I also spent a lot of time researching drivetrains and writing up compatible parts that would get me where I want to be. Outside a few YouTube channels and scattered tinkerers, most people in my generation (Millenial) would rather have a new bike that is reliable and new instead of investing $700 into a C&V bike. After that build, regardless of how "nice" or "collectable" or top-of-the-line a bike is, I'll never spend more than $100-150 for a vintage bike. I now understand the investment it took to get my current bike to where it is. Going forward I'll just save longer until I can afford the Madone or S-Works that has disc brakes, a modern mechanical drivetrain, and more clearance for cushy fat tires (38 and above). When that day comes I won't have to worry about 40 year old tech failing while I'm cruising around. I'll be able to find NEW replacement parts and avoid the fleabay gougers. And I won't have weird old bike things that I have to constantly check to make sure I'm still good to ride.

If you scan through this thread, as a few other folks also pointed out, it's full of people who were around and drooling at the bikes when they were top-of-the-line (Boomers). That nostalgia factor is very rare for people from my generation. The best market for these bikes is probably college kids wanting a commuter, but they're not going to pay much more than $100 for a bike they'll likely discard after graduation. They don't really care about the model and mostly focus on "does it ride reliably." Add to this the fact that younger generations (Gen Z and Millenials) have wayyyyyy less buying power (source one and two) than both Gen X and Baby Boomers had at our age and it creates a reality where they aren't going to pay extra for what they perceive to be just an old bike.

Camilo

Since it sounds like you're new to the sport, you might not know that there's other brands than Specialized and Trek! Broaden your horizons, man!

Duragrouch

RD definitely off, wrapped in sheet urethane foam, and taped to right chainstay. Rear dropouts, they make plastic things to go in there, but you could also use an old axle and quick release. Front fork you could leave on, or pull off for more compactness (rinko'ing a bike for japanese train, typically pulls off the fork). Wrap in foam. Wrap every frame tube in sheet foam or foam pipe insulation from big-box home store. Once you do that, wheels should fit tight against frame on each side with axles thru main traingle. Removing cassette and wrapping separate, may allow freehub body to easily nest inside spokes of front wheel on opposite side of frame. Don't go max on tire inflation, as reduced pressure at altitude effectively "increases" net pressure inside tires, but still have some pressure to pad the rims; You should be able to go 20lbs less than max tire pressure and still be fine. (If atmospheric pressure went to zero, vacuum of space, you're still only removing 14.7 PSI of outside pressure.) Want to get especially tricky with packing? Wrap everything in saran wrap (overall, not wrapping individual frame tubes) or put inside large plastic garbage bag, and then spray high-expansion insulation/crevice-sealing foam into void between parts and box, not all at once as that will bulge box, but a bit at a time, let expand, spray in more. Custom fit padding. How much weight will it add? No more than weight of full spray can, minus weight of empty spray can.

cleverbeefalo

To clarify, those were just two examples meant to illustrate the new generation of bikes. And yeah, I mentioned two of the most popular brands. It didn't seem important to make a giant list since the point was that most people my age don't care about C&V. Your comment comes off as a bit patronizing, but this is internet forums after all, so I'll take that in stride as a joke. Thanks for the reply.

SurferRosa

I suspect they have more money to throw around than me. One of the biggest reasons I own and ride several beautiful bicycles from the '70s and '80s (that will all outlast me) is because I don't have money to throw around.

I remember selling a beautiful mid-level road bike to an athletic 20-something one day who was new to vintage lightweights. She hopped on, quickly took to it, and asked all bright-eyed, "why doesn't everyone ride one of these?"

"Yeah, exactly. I don't know why they don't."

Duragrouch

Just read the long Eroica Japan thread. Any of the above bikes would qualify for any of the Eroica rides worldwide, even the Trek. (up thru 1987) The Eroica California is 22 SEP 2024 in Cambria on the central coast. Perhaps add info about that to your ads, and look for threads about it.

cycleheimer

Miyata 610 touring bike reduced from $100 to $70 on FBM (Rocky Point, N.Y. on Long Island).

chain_whipped

Concur and know many with their story. Funny yet, I've ridden with some on Sat morning group rides and witnessed the inept to throw away mentality.

One experienced, strong quick rider flatted but 'acted' having zero clue how to change out a tube or fix a flat. Almost appeared as snobbish. Already set to dial a ride back, I ended fixing it for him. Definitely out there and can't believe its due dumbness, rather they're too lazy or wasteful.

Another time, a younger rider was on a pretty decent modern $1800 (guessing) and was struggling the climbs. All beotchy and blaming the bike. Mentioned was going to trade it for something more upper end he was eying. Goes on... tapped out with bills taking over, dealer wasn't giving much for the trade and he was going to finance the balance. He didn't care what I had to say.

Most boggling how they're sheeples and will critique another if a fellow road rider doesn't have disc brakes. I've even overheard complaints 'crapp Shimano STI mechanical shifters' .... what the???

Younger gen are significantly wasteful and have minimal interest in giving them free high quality furniture, old power tools, to even bikes.

Camilo

Sorry, you're right - it was meant tongue in cheek.

cleverbeefalo

One on hand, I agree if you're going on a group ride you should be able to fix a flat. Doesn't negate the fact there's nothing wrong with calling for a ride. Changing a tire on the side of the road sucks no matter what. If someone doesn't want to deal with it there, more power to them. Who knows what they were going through on that particular day. Kinda sounds like you were riding with some crappy folks, though. I'd find it pretty odd if they just complain like that throughout a ride.

On the other hand -- it's a pretty big generalization to categorize a generation as "lazy" and "wasteful" when they don't want old free stuff. There are many other possible explanations that don't necessitate denigrating a whole generation. I have a collection of 19th century wooden planes, Stanleys #4-8, even some homemade rabbet and shipbuilding planes. I love buying when the price is right, but if it's between letting a plane be "wasted" because I won't pay for the nostalgia upcharge and buying the plane at a price I don't want it at, I'll let the plane go to the landfill. Money is tight and it's definitely not my job to save everything that can be saved in the name of not being wasteful.

All that being said, this thread is about the crashing C&V market prices. We're talking about how folks don't want to pay a lot for old bikes. There are a lot of co-ops and individuals who will gladly take a free bike, but won't pay the nostalgia upcharge for bikes. My ceiling is $150, and that would have to be a pretty solid bike with a nicer groupset.

noglider 

@3alarmer, I agree that a steel bike is practical for transportation. But I don't understand your question. It's not dying at all, at least from where I am. I'm in NYC where tons of people get around on steel bicycles.

Atlas Shrugged

Bizarre alternate reality only experienced by BF members getting scolded by people on group rides when showing up with out of date gear. When in realty the only criticizing seems to be here on the forums insulting riders on new gear. You don’t seem like a group ride guy by the obvious disdain you have for your fellow cyclists.

seagrade 

There’s always an exception to prove the rule, but while I was stopped for coffee last weekend a 20-something chap complimented my Ron Cooper before modestly stating he had a 1952 A S Gillott among at least 15 old steel frames/bicycles he loved, and knew Ron had built for Gillott.

He alone won’t absorb the tidal wave of C&V bicycles the boomers and Gen-Xers are releasing and unfortunately was a little short for my c. 1993 Serotta Coors Light team frame. Probably too new for him anyway…

iab

Dude. Let it go. Go for a ride. Something, anything.

Trakhak

Valid comment. And so is his.

cleverbeefalo

You agree with Chainwhipped? I'm confused.

Atlas Shrugged

Did you read the rant I was referring to? All of the following are from a Saturday group ride?

"inept to throw away mentality"
"appeared as snobbish"
"its due dumbness"
"they're too lazy or wasteful"
"All beotchy and blaming"
"they're sheeples"
"will critique another if a fellow road rider doesn't have disc brakes"
"what the???"
"Younger gen are significantly wasteful"

That said, your point is valid; I often find myself repeating the same point about the disconnect that occurs on these forums. Being someone who doesn't give up easily, I often criticize the nonsensical and unrelated threads that pop up with the faint hope of keeping these forums relevant. For example, there was a recent thread defending the use of wooden rims, which I found quite absurd. One common topic that always seems to stir up a response is the misconception that people are judged and looked down upon by so-called "new bike snobs" during group rides or while simply riding around. However, in my experience, the criticism and snobbery I've witnessed in the sport have mostly been on these forums, particularly from the C&V (Classic & Vintage) crowd. Nevertheless, I do manage to get plenty of riding in, in fact, going on a month-long circle tour from Barcelona to Biarritz and back, riding in the foothills of the Pyrenees on both sides in June.

AdventureManCO 

You seem like a cool dude. I'm betting that some folks here maybe took some of your descriptions of your generation and applied all the negative ones to you

There are a lot of great things about the newer generations - some of which I really enjoyed and admired when working w/ HS students a few years back.

Regarding buying power, I do think what you say is real. You look around at home prices and its like...man, how would I ever be able to afford a home if I was buying right now? On the other hand, I hear conversations of folks younger than me and some of the stuff that they spend their money on seems wasteful. A lot of convenient, non-essential subscription-based services which suck budgets dry, $8 coffees everyday and think of how much new phones and data plans cost, which a lot of value is placed on. I remember when the 'purchasing power' argument was also made about my generation (millenial, unfortunately). It's true of every new generation - of course they are going to have less buying power because they are young, impulsive, unwise with finances (comparatively), and haven't had time to 'climb the ladder' to higher paying jobs yet. The generation after Z will probably also less purchasing power than Z will have once gen Z has more time in the markets.

Regarding old bikes - times change, and the older generations grew up staring and drooling at those Raleigh Pros and Colnagos and Masis. The newer gen doesn't care, that's not their experience. One day people are going to be restoring Priuses.

I like old bikes because aesthetically, they are better looking and cheaper than newer bikes. I also find them less ethically-challenged than new bikes (unless they are stolen). I have no way to know if the newest carbon wonder frame from China is made w/ the equivalent of sweatshop labor and Foxconn-style building nets. And how do you recycle carbon when its past its life cycle? So, no. And Chinese e-bikes (or rather, all e-bikes?) have batteries that are made w/ cobalt which is probably sourced from child slavery in the Congo. So, nope. If those things weren't an issue, I'd probably be more into them. Sign me up for wooden bikes.

iab

You are new here. Atlas Shrugged is a broken record, he thinks C&V members are meanies who hate on new stuff. When in reality, they troll here and gets their undies in a bunch when correctly told for the caliber of cyclists on BF it doesn't matter if you ride the latest and greatest wonder bike or the janky old crap I tend to have. I was responding to that, not Chainwhipped.

But since you asked, as far as what Chainwhipped wrote, I have never experienced what they experienced. The group rides I'm on are very congenial, everyone helps out everyone else. And when I was young I was called wasteful and lazy. I believe my father was called the same when he was young. Hating on younger generations is as old as dirt. I don't abide, but I don't get my undies in a bunch about it because it is nothing new and will continue on long after I'm gone.

iab

Link?

My guess is you think wood rims suck. And while stopping with wood rims sucks (when compared to aluminum) and are as stiff as a wet noodle, so what? It is merely a different riding experience. Why hate on that? "Performance" does not matter one whit.