tcs

Info from the show, recently concluded, featuring as these shows do, aspirational models.

PC22 carbon fiber, Deltech, Lockjaw II:



GB-2 and Explorer big wheel folders:




Dahon said crowds gathered to see their new model ride bikes road bikes. The Vélodon:



The latest fully triangulated Mu:






Hmph. Smooth welds. Huh! No discs.

Other models: Bold New Colors!

Look for these models at your local Dahon dealer...if you live in the Yuxi circle!

Ron Damon

There are no bad products, only bad prices. I am not holding my breath for Dahon to provide value in or out of the Yuxi circle. Peak-Dahon is now in the rearview mirror.


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vuurmot

Jaws hinge II is already creaky... Creaky hinge on a carbon bike

Hopefully it has been fixed

Dahon also claim to have created "v-tech" that is supposed to provide more stiffness, but have not revealed what changes have been made
https://eu.dahon.com/dahon-unleashes...ei-cycle-2024/

Dahon is only company making folding bike innovations, I look forward to whatever they have made, good or bad

john m flores 

Interesting..."DAHON has developed a set of rigorous methodology for the study of “V Tech”. This includes structural physics, finite element analysis, strain gauges, and above all, pioneering tests that measure frame stiffness relatively accurately during pedaling."

I wonder if the Deltech cable was a result of their V Tech research. The marketing material claims that the Deltech cable increases the weight-carrying capacity of certain models (of course, triangulation = good). I hope that Deltech is also used to make lighter bikes.

tcs

They also showed this "P18" model. I think these are ISO451 wheels.

seat_boy

I'm happy to see they're still investing in rim brakes. I think rim brakes are a little more robust for a folding bike--no rotors to true.

tcs

And also fitting discs on some models but with an insight to special needs of folding bike applications.

More than regular bikes, folding bikes get knocked around: through the turnstiles of the underground, stowed in your sailboat or RV, carried up four flights of stairs bouncing off your grocery bag, etc. Dahon has come up with a 15mm in-set "Safety Brake". The in-set is to mitigate rotor damage from folding bike life. I think the only special parts are the rotor and caliper mount (adapter).

2_i 

When I tried, I found it impossible to locate an operating Dahon dealer in Shanghai. The addresses from the Dahon website took me to vacated spaces, blocks of torn-down buildings, etc. I gave up after the third address.

Jipe

Is the front disc on the right side of the fork like on the Birdy?

The Birdy has also its front disc placed closer to the center of the front wheel but its a standard disc and a standard disc caliper, its the front hub which is proprietary with a standard 100mm OLD but a disc mounting closer to the centre of the hub.

Duragrouch

I won't buy a new bike unless it had discs. Needed for my terrain.

The PC22 looks nice. Wary about carbon durability against dings, but in high stress areas like top front of seat tube, carbon might be superior in fatigue to aluminum and steel. Still don't like lack of recyclability of carbon. But I'm curious what a carbon everything folder; frame, seatpost, handlepost, handlebars, and rims, in 2X, would weigh? Don't need exotic carbon hubs if they make them. Crank range looks typical old-road-bike 2X tight, no reason for it not to have a 52/36. I'll be curious about the price.

jfouellette

It makes sense if Dahon is focusing on the performance bi-folding bike market. In north-america, performance bikes are 700c wheels and don’t fold. Folders need to be simple and inexpensive basic models. Our group here is probably to small for Dahon to consider. 4,3b people is a huge market.

Duragrouch

I definitely grant your points, but I think they apply more if Dahon needed to design a special performance model for the USA; I just want them to import models they offer elsewhere, and given that they still sell lesser models in the USA, corporate and dealer network already exists. But it's a question if any demand for a performance model. But if dealers don't want to stock, that's where direct-to-consumer sales can work, especially with a folder that would require no assembly; Brompton is doing it.

The car companies had, then didn't, then brought back, "halo" performance cars, that would draw people into dealerships, even if then buying lesser cars, and also to add prestige to the brand. I think it would benefit Dahon to import their best offerings, for the perception that they are capable of producing such bikes.

Ron Damon

Dahon could start by making their vapor-products available for purchase. If the business model actually requires actual sales of actual bikes, that is.

Duragrouch

Interesting thought; Maybe their vapor-products are their equivalent of halo-products. Time will tell. I think this year will be pivotal for them, up or down. Unless they can offer premium products, they can't sustain premium pricing; Too much viable competition that now have a foothold at the market low end. Personally, I think a good light frame and hinge joint with deltech, discs, and wide 2X 52/36 hollow-crank drivetrain, at a competitive price, would do it. 406 wheels and clearance for up to 2.0 width. Like the Formula S18 of 10 years ago (discs, no deltech, 52/42 crank, and I think $1500, which was over 3X what the same-frame Mariner cost at the time, for only the addition of a 2X crank and discs). They could easily offer that at the price of the Launch ($1000), no higher, and I think lower at $750 would generate enough increase in sales to yield more profit.

I know you, Ron, would go 1X, and could build it all for half that price, but most folks want a turn-key bike, and I think a 2X drivetrain still appeals to the lightweight, racier market.

But what do I know? Dahon's marketers should know the market.

Zizzo, on the other hand, that could be their next direction. An easy upgrade of the Liberte.

Ron Damon

With the weight loss from no FD, FD shifter, FD cabling and one less chainring, the lightweight, KISS crowd will opt for 1x.

Duragrouch

Oh I agree. I just think the traditional racer aesthetic will prefer 2X and smaller cassette. But maybe that is changing fast.

The biggest thing I like about adding an FD, is when it drops the chain (not every day but does happen), one shift and a second later the chain is back on. With the original crank, stop, look for a stick unless I packed disposable gloves, otherwise get fingers filthy putting chain back on, look for grass to wipe hands on, get back on bike. A 1X wide-narrow chainring might prevent chain drop, not sure. I have a perfect chainline setting, but the chainstays are short. But I guess that is why other Speeds I've seen have an inner chainguide on the seat tube, and plastic chainguard outboard, that's why.

CrimsonEclipse

Narrow/Wide Chainring has eliminated any chain drop, even with my setup.
My local MUP has a LOT of tree roots pushing through and imperfections... not a single drop

Older hons had the double bashguard and even then I had drops.

Ron Damon

The other innovation that aids in chain retention, slap and tension is the RD clutch mechanism.

Duragrouch

I can't ever remember dropping a chain on my old road with 52/42, and that was the biopace years, which might make it more susceptible.

I suspect that part of the drop with the original cheap swaged 1X crank was any lateral runout of the ring, and with my current 50/34, the steel chainrings, which are definitely thinner than aluminum at the spider, but I don't know about at the teeth, I think they could fit a skosh wider, It's an 8/9 speed crank and I'm running 7 speed with a KMC 8.1. Still, not common enough of drop to be a problem, though I'd care more if it was a fancy polished crank, as the drops have left some scratches in the black paint on this crank. A narrower cage on the FD might help; I chose a 9 speed 3X FD, as triple was my original intent, but glad the cage is long, so chain doesn't drag when on small/small. Could I go narrower and not have chain lateral drag on both rings and all cogs? Not sure. The Shimano road 11 FD-5800 that I'd like to fit (for lower shift effort), the cage is MUCH narrower up front, but only up front, it flares backward, that may be key. I might modify my current microshift accordingly.

tds101 

Personally, if I DID opt for a Dahon, it would be a Launch. I'd upgrade the 8 speed cassette to either a 10 or 11 speed, and I'd go with 11T-42T for it. The top end isn't what I'd be caring about, it's the hill climbing ability I'd be after. Oh, and a HollowTech style bottom bracket upgrade. That, or the K3 Plus (with, hopefully) an upgraded cassette (11T-28T isn't low enough for climbs IMO).

Duragrouch

Oh I totally agree, you'da man! About a year ago, the (superior, IMO) Launch (better hinge, discs, crank and BB), was selling for $150 or $200 less than the Mariner on Dahon's website! I asked the (remaining) local Dahon dealer about that and he said the Mariner is a more known name and it comes with rack and fenders. The Launch is back up in price now to $1000, same as Mariner.

I'm still a fan of 2X gearing, but yeah, 11-42 cassette would do it, that's just a huge improvement in low gearing. I would only need lower if perhaps heavy touring and steep or very long climbs. 50x11 on 406 is plenty high gear for me.

The Launch hinge design is still pretty new, won't see copies until the patents run out. But I hope Zizzo starts offering a disc bike and with a FD bracket.

tcs

FWIW: go to the Dahon USA website and put a Launch "in the cart". It comes up $850 due to Dahon USA's current 15% off sale.

Duragrouch

Oh yeah, true. I think my greater point was, it's the same price as a Mariner, if all get the same discount. The Launch is a better bike. I'd need a better rack than on Mariner, so it coming with one is zero benefit to me. And standard fenders usually hard to fit 1.75, definitely not 2.0.

I'm still drooling over the newer models seen only in videos, Launch-like folding hinge, 2x10 drivetrain (although 52/42 on 130mm BCD, I'd want 50/34 which needs 110mm BCD for the 34), and either smooth-dressed welds or carbon frame. I haven't checked foreign Dahon sites in a couple months, I should go look again.