How Many Years Cycling. How many crashes?
#26
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As a child, one by accident, showing off after I had just learned to ride - very embarrassing. Dozens on purpose, playing a game where you rode across the neighbor's driveway over a bump and down into our soft grass, where the 'gunner' would shoot you, and you had to fall off your bike and play dead. Whoever did it best, chosen by the gunner, became the next gunner. I must have had rubber bones then.
As a teenager, one hitting a 6" rock during a race in Durango while chasing the break. Broke my collarbone, with road rash on back, left arm and leg. Another at 2 mph at a stop sign, got a concussion, and a new Bell helmet. Raced about five years total, as an Intermediate, Junior, and Senior III.
As an adult, two on motorcycles, one braking at the bottom of a hill when the light changed, in the first good rain in awhile. Slid out and messed up my knee for about a month. The other as a car pulled out in right in front of me, after coming to a full, complete stop. I T-boned him and was catapulted over the top, banging my helmet, tearing off a boot, and otherwise being lucky, considering. Broken toe, broken ankle, broken cheekbone, torn knee cartilage. Rode about 180,000 miles on motorcycles.
Riding my bicycle again since 2020, one accident, fairly minor, got stopped after a front flat but fell over at the end, slowly. No immediate injury, but strained my back later that day.
I'm much more careful riding nowadays, as my bones are no longer rubber.
As a teenager, one hitting a 6" rock during a race in Durango while chasing the break. Broke my collarbone, with road rash on back, left arm and leg. Another at 2 mph at a stop sign, got a concussion, and a new Bell helmet. Raced about five years total, as an Intermediate, Junior, and Senior III.
As an adult, two on motorcycles, one braking at the bottom of a hill when the light changed, in the first good rain in awhile. Slid out and messed up my knee for about a month. The other as a car pulled out in right in front of me, after coming to a full, complete stop. I T-boned him and was catapulted over the top, banging my helmet, tearing off a boot, and otherwise being lucky, considering. Broken toe, broken ankle, broken cheekbone, torn knee cartilage. Rode about 180,000 miles on motorcycles.
Riding my bicycle again since 2020, one accident, fairly minor, got stopped after a front flat but fell over at the end, slowly. No immediate injury, but strained my back later that day.
I'm much more careful riding nowadays, as my bones are no longer rubber.
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Last edited by Fredo76; 05-25-24 at 12:39 AM.
#27
Years riding: Approx 50 (38 as an adult)
Number of memorable road bike crashes: 2
First was a front slide out when making a downhill turn in icy conditions as a teenager.
Second was at the start of a Grand Fondo when someone crashed in front of me and I ran into the back of them, sending me over the bars.
Injuries: minor road rash and bruising.
Mountain biking is another story! At my peak I was averaging a couple of crashes/month, all from running out of talent! I calmed down a bit in my 40s and I haven’t crashed again in the last decade.
MTB injuries: Battered and bruised, but no broken bones or long lasting injuries. I did wear knee and arm pads for the rough stuff, which saved a lot of skin!
To put cycling into context, I’ve had worse injuries off the bike. Concussion from running full speed into a glass door. Broken toe from chasing my daughter around the house and stubbing it on a coffee table. Broken tooth and stitches playing football (soccer for most of you guys!).
Number of memorable road bike crashes: 2
First was a front slide out when making a downhill turn in icy conditions as a teenager.
Second was at the start of a Grand Fondo when someone crashed in front of me and I ran into the back of them, sending me over the bars.
Injuries: minor road rash and bruising.
Mountain biking is another story! At my peak I was averaging a couple of crashes/month, all from running out of talent! I calmed down a bit in my 40s and I haven’t crashed again in the last decade.
MTB injuries: Battered and bruised, but no broken bones or long lasting injuries. I did wear knee and arm pads for the rough stuff, which saved a lot of skin!
To put cycling into context, I’ve had worse injuries off the bike. Concussion from running full speed into a glass door. Broken toe from chasing my daughter around the house and stubbing it on a coffee table. Broken tooth and stitches playing football (soccer for most of you guys!).
Last edited by PeteHski; 05-25-24 at 02:25 AM.
#28
24 years on and off.
1 crash.
3 weeks ago crash into a bush, got distracted from swatting a bee away.
No Injuries.
Any physical activities can result in accidents, just enjoy the moment and don't go beyond your skill level.
1 crash.
3 weeks ago crash into a bush, got distracted from swatting a bee away.
No Injuries.
Any physical activities can result in accidents, just enjoy the moment and don't go beyond your skill level.
#29
Full Member
How many years have you been cycling? On and off for.......24 years Started at 4, did some road with mom and dad on the back of the tandem. Quit till 15 or so when i joined the high school mtb club.
How many crashes? Too many to count. Hundreds off road. Maybe 20 or so on road, most stupid like the forgot to unclip ones.
Describe each crash. Worst crash I low sided my mtb and slid hip first into a steel bridge at.... 10-15 mph. Had some mud tires on the back of my mtb, and was following 2 friends. Bridge entrance was concrete and had sand on it somehow, so I rounded the corner, slid the rear and decided to shoot for the bridge entrance rather then the bushes. Hit the bridge instead.
Worst off road crash was when I raced mtb's and blacked out after my bars caught a vine and I went sideways. Cracked the helmet. Most offroad crashes were front tire washouts due to me trying to cash a check my tires could't handle. (26x2.0 hutchinson pythons vs 195lbs of cornering..... prowess)
What lasting injuries did you get? Some positions my impacted hip doesn't like and it hurts and locks up. Happens on the motorcycle sometimes and I just stand up. Has held up to my weight lifting fun so it can't be that bad.
How many crashes? Too many to count. Hundreds off road. Maybe 20 or so on road, most stupid like the forgot to unclip ones.
Describe each crash. Worst crash I low sided my mtb and slid hip first into a steel bridge at.... 10-15 mph. Had some mud tires on the back of my mtb, and was following 2 friends. Bridge entrance was concrete and had sand on it somehow, so I rounded the corner, slid the rear and decided to shoot for the bridge entrance rather then the bushes. Hit the bridge instead.
Worst off road crash was when I raced mtb's and blacked out after my bars caught a vine and I went sideways. Cracked the helmet. Most offroad crashes were front tire washouts due to me trying to cash a check my tires could't handle. (26x2.0 hutchinson pythons vs 195lbs of cornering..... prowess)
What lasting injuries did you get? Some positions my impacted hip doesn't like and it hurts and locks up. Happens on the motorcycle sometimes and I just stand up. Has held up to my weight lifting fun so it can't be that bad.
#30
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Cycling is as safe out as dangerous as you make it. You can bomb down wet curvy roads, or cautiously maneuver the same roads, or avoid such conditions. I'm clearly a risk taker so I crash on occasion. Too many in 50+ years to remember.
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#32
Senior Member
I like this thread although I agree with an earlier poster that you have posted exactly two times and both times you are asking about crashing. If you are that frightened,.maybe a bike isn't for you. Quite frankly if you just need carless transportation you should just walk. It's free and at a brisk pace you can get anywhere within three miles in less than an hour. Or take a bus.
#33
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69 years ago my Dad let me go at the top of the driveway on two wheels and I crashed into our mail box at the bottom, can't really remember but bet I cried.
#34
Pedal Pusher
68 years old, all road riding, centuries, doubles, triathlons and decades of fast recreational touring… Zero accidents… Pretty boring…
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#35
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How many years have you been cycling? 60+ with 10 years off for being a teenager.
How many crashes? Countless
Describe each crash. There are enough electrons in the Intertubz.
What lasting injuries did you get? A bunch. Scars are like tattoos with better stories. A couple of the more memorable ones: I have a lump on my thigh that is the result of a deep hematoma that bothers me whenever I lay on it on a hard surface. And I have a 12” scar running over my right knee where they put my knee back together after being hit by a car. I have no fat pad over the patella and the ligaments are just hanging onto the edge. Ground those off on the pavement. It would hurt to kneel on anything if I hadn’t severed the nerve that runs down the inside of the knee. 40 years on I still can’t “feel” anything in that knee when I kneel on it but I’ve adapted to where pressure on that are is interpreted as pain.
That said, I wouldn’t give up the last 40 years of serious cycling and the stories that go along with the scars. One of my favorite quotes from the movies comes from “Strictly Ballroom”: “A life lived in fear is a life half lived.” Go ride and quite worrying about what could go wrong. Celebrate what goes right.
How many crashes? Countless
Describe each crash. There are enough electrons in the Intertubz.
What lasting injuries did you get? A bunch. Scars are like tattoos with better stories. A couple of the more memorable ones: I have a lump on my thigh that is the result of a deep hematoma that bothers me whenever I lay on it on a hard surface. And I have a 12” scar running over my right knee where they put my knee back together after being hit by a car. I have no fat pad over the patella and the ligaments are just hanging onto the edge. Ground those off on the pavement. It would hurt to kneel on anything if I hadn’t severed the nerve that runs down the inside of the knee. 40 years on I still can’t “feel” anything in that knee when I kneel on it but I’ve adapted to where pressure on that are is interpreted as pain.
That said, I wouldn’t give up the last 40 years of serious cycling and the stories that go along with the scars. One of my favorite quotes from the movies comes from “Strictly Ballroom”: “A life lived in fear is a life half lived.” Go ride and quite worrying about what could go wrong. Celebrate what goes right.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#37
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I got a bike and the first time I rode it I crashed fatally.
Don't Ride Bikes.
Don't Ride Bikes.
*****
Too many riders are injured or killed. Too many drivers, get away without penalty by saying, 'I didn't see them,' when the book should be thrown at the driver for not paying attention while behind the wheel. Too many riders get themselves into trouble by not paying attention or by misjudging time and distance. But I don't see how seeking our memories of our crashes will help you decide to ride or not.
If you're careful, you may never crash. If you're lucky you may never crash. If you crash, you're like to suffer minor injuries at worst.
But life is risky. There's no way to avoid risk.
#38
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40 yrs.
2 crashes on the road.
1st crash - some road rash (hit something slick in a corner)
2nd crash - a broken neck that resulted in C1 & C2 being fused (hit a pot hole and went over the top)
FWIW about 90% of my rides have been on the road and almost never have issues with cars/trucks.
2 crashes on the road.
1st crash - some road rash (hit something slick in a corner)
2nd crash - a broken neck that resulted in C1 & C2 being fused (hit a pot hole and went over the top)
FWIW about 90% of my rides have been on the road and almost never have issues with cars/trucks.
#39
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70 years, 100k miles, one crash. A stray cat ran out between parked cars and I ran over it with the front wheel and went down, sliding on knees and elbows. Cat ran away and I rode 10 miles home. Only injury was street pizza.
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#40
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How many years have you been cycling? -- Since the mid-1960s.
How many crashes? -- Many little ones. One (off a jump) that knocked me out for awhile. And only one resulting in any injuries.
Describe each crash -- The one injury crash was the result of a pedestrian unwittingly crossing the MUP without looking. I slammed on the brakes, broke the rear brake cable, and the front brake locked-up the wheel ... to the point it came out from under me. I held onto the bike and kept it ahead of me and beneath my hands. I slid on my forearm. The bike took most of the scraping. But I was left with a nasty rash for the next year. Eventually it all healed up nicely. No infection. I got nearly all the sand grains and crud out, during the cleaning and disinfecting. To be fair, I was traveling far too fast for the MUP; it was a MUP, after all, not a roadway. Decades later, now, if that were to happen again I'd probably get septic shock and become a modern medical footnote in some textbook; which hasn't happened yet, since that lone crash. So, it's all good.
How many crashes? -- Many little ones. One (off a jump) that knocked me out for awhile. And only one resulting in any injuries.
Describe each crash -- The one injury crash was the result of a pedestrian unwittingly crossing the MUP without looking. I slammed on the brakes, broke the rear brake cable, and the front brake locked-up the wheel ... to the point it came out from under me. I held onto the bike and kept it ahead of me and beneath my hands. I slid on my forearm. The bike took most of the scraping. But I was left with a nasty rash for the next year. Eventually it all healed up nicely. No infection. I got nearly all the sand grains and crud out, during the cleaning and disinfecting. To be fair, I was traveling far too fast for the MUP; it was a MUP, after all, not a roadway. Decades later, now, if that were to happen again I'd probably get septic shock and become a modern medical footnote in some textbook; which hasn't happened yet, since that lone crash. So, it's all good.
Last edited by Clyde1820; 05-26-24 at 05:34 AM. Reason: spelling
#41
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Years - 4-28, then 47-52(current)
I rode flatland freestyle, vert and track in BMX- I was on the deck daily.
Mountain bikes - on the deck often.
Road - 2 major and on minor.
Minor - locked wheels with another rider, some road rash.
Major - bonked, passed out and went over the bars during a 120 mile fondo. Road rash everywhere, was knocked out for 8+ hours and woke up in a CT scan. Had a concussion for a month+
Major - carbon bars assploded, broken collar bone, shoulder, three broken ribs, road rash and messed up my knee. The knee is still tweaked 2 years later and will probably need surgery at some point.
I rode flatland freestyle, vert and track in BMX- I was on the deck daily.
Mountain bikes - on the deck often.
Road - 2 major and on minor.
Minor - locked wheels with another rider, some road rash.
Major - bonked, passed out and went over the bars during a 120 mile fondo. Road rash everywhere, was knocked out for 8+ hours and woke up in a CT scan. Had a concussion for a month+
Major - carbon bars assploded, broken collar bone, shoulder, three broken ribs, road rash and messed up my knee. The knee is still tweaked 2 years later and will probably need surgery at some point.
#42
aka Tom Reingold
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I've been cycling since I was 4 years old, and I'm 63 now, so that's 59 years. I've had a few crashes, one serious. No regrets, and I'm still riding happily.
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#43
aka Tom Reingold
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I love this and hope to remember it.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
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#44
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Ok, I will play
63 years of biking
biked gravel roads of montana, Hi way 2 in montana, NYC, Newfoundland, Connecticut, bahamas, bermuda, florida, and lots in Californial
commute for work of and on for last 42 years in and around Silicon valley
Lots of weekend and fun riding in and around silicon valley
only three crashes to note (and none on a MUP/Bike path)
1) driver crowds me, and I catch wheel on gas station driveway edge..... major road rash, destroyed new bike shorts
2) neighbors dog sees cat, cat sees dog, cat runs, dog chases cat, dog runs in front of me, I play super man.....ended up very bruised and lots of abuse from my son, to this day. helmet took good hit, replaced helmet
3) exiting work on a side walk going against traffic, stop hard as driver pulls into drive way. Kool stop pads, lock front wheel, and I go over handle bars. Ended u p no separated fracture of the head of ulna, but Emergency Room mis diagnosed. result is are I can not extended fully (95%
63 years of biking
biked gravel roads of montana, Hi way 2 in montana, NYC, Newfoundland, Connecticut, bahamas, bermuda, florida, and lots in Californial
commute for work of and on for last 42 years in and around Silicon valley
Lots of weekend and fun riding in and around silicon valley
only three crashes to note (and none on a MUP/Bike path)
1) driver crowds me, and I catch wheel on gas station driveway edge..... major road rash, destroyed new bike shorts
2) neighbors dog sees cat, cat sees dog, cat runs, dog chases cat, dog runs in front of me, I play super man.....ended up very bruised and lots of abuse from my son, to this day. helmet took good hit, replaced helmet
3) exiting work on a side walk going against traffic, stop hard as driver pulls into drive way. Kool stop pads, lock front wheel, and I go over handle bars. Ended u p no separated fracture of the head of ulna, but Emergency Room mis diagnosed. result is are I can not extended fully (95%
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#45
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Forgot one very unusual crash.
Was doing a group ride with my buddy on his tandem. We were following a rural road near the Salish Sea (think Seattle) when a white van passes us a bit too close - the immediate reaction from both of us was . But little did we know, hitched to the van was a medium size boat on a trailer whose hull impacted me, since I was the stoker. We then launched into an embankment on our right. I had a sore left shoulder from the hull hit and a scraped left ankle when it went into the spokes. My friend came out unscathed. The van didn’t stop and continued obliviously, and probably impaired, down the road. The other riders in the group watched the incident and one called 911 to report it, unbeknownst to us.
About 10-15 minutes later a sheriff came screaming by with lights and siren. Then about 30 seconds later another went by. Then a State Trooper went by with lights and siren followed by an ambulance. We said, to each other, there must have been one hell of an accident behind us with that kind of response- but we sure didn’t pass one in the last 20 miles. About 10 minutes later a Sheriff vehicle pulls along side us and gets on his PA and asks if any of us were involved in an accident. We put up our hands were asked to stop. He took down the info and then the same ambulance we saw earlier stops. We were dumbfounded by the response, and when we asked, the deputy responded, whenever there is a car and bicycle accident they assume the worst and notify all local first responders.
Following a quick exam and a bandage applied to my ankle, we were back on our way. The van driver, as fas as know, was not apprehended. We were extremely lucky-ish.
Was doing a group ride with my buddy on his tandem. We were following a rural road near the Salish Sea (think Seattle) when a white van passes us a bit too close - the immediate reaction from both of us was . But little did we know, hitched to the van was a medium size boat on a trailer whose hull impacted me, since I was the stoker. We then launched into an embankment on our right. I had a sore left shoulder from the hull hit and a scraped left ankle when it went into the spokes. My friend came out unscathed. The van didn’t stop and continued obliviously, and probably impaired, down the road. The other riders in the group watched the incident and one called 911 to report it, unbeknownst to us.
About 10-15 minutes later a sheriff came screaming by with lights and siren. Then about 30 seconds later another went by. Then a State Trooper went by with lights and siren followed by an ambulance. We said, to each other, there must have been one hell of an accident behind us with that kind of response- but we sure didn’t pass one in the last 20 miles. About 10 minutes later a Sheriff vehicle pulls along side us and gets on his PA and asks if any of us were involved in an accident. We put up our hands were asked to stop. He took down the info and then the same ambulance we saw earlier stops. We were dumbfounded by the response, and when we asked, the deputy responded, whenever there is a car and bicycle accident they assume the worst and notify all local first responders.
Following a quick exam and a bandage applied to my ankle, we were back on our way. The van driver, as fas as know, was not apprehended. We were extremely lucky-ish.
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Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
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#46
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I started riding bikes when I was about 5 yrs old in the very early 70's.
My first crash was when I took my first learning bike ride on a chopper style bike. I was riding for the first time in a fairly straight line until I had to turn around. I rode till I got to a wide intersection, made a large loop to turn around, Unfortunately, one side of the intersection was uphill. I pedaled until I was going too slow uphill and didn't get my foot down before falling over on my side. Resulted in a bloody lip and a scraped elbow.
I don't count off roading crashes as that is just part and parcel for MTB riding.
My only real "crash" on the road was before I had a car so, around 1982ish. being hit by a VW van that made a right turn in front of me, while I was riding in the bike lane, at a pretty good pace.
Various bruises and asphalt embeded in my elbows. Large bruise across my throat area where the bolted on trailer mirror caught me on the neck.
My first crash was when I took my first learning bike ride on a chopper style bike. I was riding for the first time in a fairly straight line until I had to turn around. I rode till I got to a wide intersection, made a large loop to turn around, Unfortunately, one side of the intersection was uphill. I pedaled until I was going too slow uphill and didn't get my foot down before falling over on my side. Resulted in a bloody lip and a scraped elbow.
I don't count off roading crashes as that is just part and parcel for MTB riding.
My only real "crash" on the road was before I had a car so, around 1982ish. being hit by a VW van that made a right turn in front of me, while I was riding in the bike lane, at a pretty good pace.
Various bruises and asphalt embeded in my elbows. Large bruise across my throat area where the bolted on trailer mirror caught me on the neck.
#47
I've crashed so many times I can't even count or remember them all. I have bicycle injury scars on all four of my limbs, both my hands, and even on my torso. I'm talking about road cycling crashes. I'm not a mountain biker.
Don't get into cycling if you don't like crashing or injuries. Pick a hobby where you stay indoors.
Don't get into cycling if you don't like crashing or injuries. Pick a hobby where you stay indoors.
#48
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I've been riding since I was a kid, as most of us old folk have. I've had a number of crashes over the forty+ years, ending with bumps and bruises, a few sprains and some road rash, once cracked a bone in my hand that healed just fine on its own. What they have in common is that they were all slow speed and my fault, so pay attention.
You didn't ask, but I've also had thousands of miles of crash-free, unfettered kinetic joy; I'll take those odds. If you don't want to ride a bike, then don't. You don't have to rationalize it, just let it go. I don't free climb cliffs because the idea scares me stiff and somehow I manage to live my life. Be well and have fun!
You didn't ask, but I've also had thousands of miles of crash-free, unfettered kinetic joy; I'll take those odds. If you don't want to ride a bike, then don't. You don't have to rationalize it, just let it go. I don't free climb cliffs because the idea scares me stiff and somehow I manage to live my life. Be well and have fun!
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#49
Junior Member
How many years have you been cycling? --- 60+
How many crashes? --- 4 of consequence
Describe each crash.
· 1983 Triathlon --- Coming into a corner with loose gravel, the guy in front of me took a bad line and went down. His bike slid into me and took me down. I finished the race but needed medical attention at the end.
· 1987 on a cross-country tour with my wife. --- We were drafting on another into a head wind near Arco Idaho. I saw a Pronghorn Antelope near the road which distracted me and ran into my wife’s rear wheel. Down I went, landing on my head and rolling. I was OK but my front wheel was a potato chip. (Long story about “road angels” that saved us.)
· 1990 Club ride with racers and some young want-to-bees ---- We were in a pack rolling at racing speed when one of the “kids” did something stupid. He took 8-9 of us out. I went over the handlebars and landed on my head and shoulder. I rolled up onto my feet mad as hell.
· 2005 Riding from home to a club ride in November. We had had a frost that night. When crossing a wood deck bridge I passed over a steel plate that had iced over. My front wheel went out from under me. I broke my fall with my right hand.
What lasting injuries did you get?
· 1983--- I have a “Road Tattoo” on my left hip from that one.
· 1987----My lasting injurie from that one was having to listen to my wife razz me for years.
· 1990 ---I got a minor concussion that day and my neck has never been the same. I have limited range of motion and a constant ache at about C-2/3.
· 2005 --I tore up tendons/ligaments in my right wrist. I was out of work for a week and not back to normal for a month.
With all the years and miles I have on a bicycle, I have been truly blessed to get by with so little damage.
How many crashes? --- 4 of consequence
Describe each crash.
· 1983 Triathlon --- Coming into a corner with loose gravel, the guy in front of me took a bad line and went down. His bike slid into me and took me down. I finished the race but needed medical attention at the end.
· 1987 on a cross-country tour with my wife. --- We were drafting on another into a head wind near Arco Idaho. I saw a Pronghorn Antelope near the road which distracted me and ran into my wife’s rear wheel. Down I went, landing on my head and rolling. I was OK but my front wheel was a potato chip. (Long story about “road angels” that saved us.)
· 1990 Club ride with racers and some young want-to-bees ---- We were in a pack rolling at racing speed when one of the “kids” did something stupid. He took 8-9 of us out. I went over the handlebars and landed on my head and shoulder. I rolled up onto my feet mad as hell.
· 2005 Riding from home to a club ride in November. We had had a frost that night. When crossing a wood deck bridge I passed over a steel plate that had iced over. My front wheel went out from under me. I broke my fall with my right hand.
What lasting injuries did you get?
· 1983--- I have a “Road Tattoo” on my left hip from that one.
· 1987----My lasting injurie from that one was having to listen to my wife razz me for years.
· 1990 ---I got a minor concussion that day and my neck has never been the same. I have limited range of motion and a constant ache at about C-2/3.
· 2005 --I tore up tendons/ligaments in my right wrist. I was out of work for a week and not back to normal for a month.
With all the years and miles I have on a bicycle, I have been truly blessed to get by with so little damage.
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#50
Passista
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,797
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
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How many years have you been cycling? 61
How many crashes? A lot, but only one serious - hit from behind by a drunk driver.
Describe each crash. Even if I did remember all of them, it would take too much space and time...
What lasting injuries did you get? None
How many crashes? A lot, but only one serious - hit from behind by a drunk driver.
Describe each crash. Even if I did remember all of them, it would take too much space and time...
What lasting injuries did you get? None