Duragrouch

You are so right. Double head tube mount would both divide the vertical shear load between the two points, and also reduce the bending stress by an order of magnitude.

Old '60s Moulton "shoppers" had a front rack that cross-bolted laterally behind the head tube to a midline along the frame tube, very structurally sound (neutral axis in bending of that tube), but a double head tube mount would also be quite sound.

Steered weight on my 20" front rack helped stability (inertial damping and steers in direction of falling), but a study from Cornell and Delft U's proved that front load ahead of the steering axis, even if not steered, also helps stability, for the same reasons. But if carrying panniers, the rack needs to be steered.

grumpus

The problem is not the height but the distance from the steering axis. Better to attach it rigidly to the frame as is customary with cargo bikes. Otherwise fit half the basket either side of the wheel, or reserve it for bulky but lightweight items.

CrimsonEclipse

Dude, those tires!
2.5"?

Ron Damon

Better 2.4" and acceptable ground clearance of the RD than 1.75" with the SGS RD scraping the ground. 😉

Duragrouch

IIRC(?) I think he has a Bike Friday All-Packa with similar large tires (what it was designed for*), so not a surprise. I think my Dahon Speed could fit 2.0s, I have some to try out after current tires wear out. I doubt 2.4s would fit. Even 1.75s were problematic with fenders.

* In addition to big-tire clearance, the All-Packa has slightly different fork geometry versus the New World Tourist.

EDIT: Those are the exact tires that came on his All-Packa. My guess is he put more tready tires on it, and not wanting to waste good rubber, used those on his Zizzo. I do notice they seem to be mounted backward of intended direction of rotation, but for that tread pattern, should make zero difference. (Though there is a reason for that direction.)

tds101 

Question: why is the Litepro adapter no good? I'd say it's a good deal, unless there's a quality issue. I've yet to be disappointed with any Litepro purchases.

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Duragrouch

I see good in that it holds the head tube top and bottom. Some have said it is weak in that it's just point contact at the screw mounts, versus on a brompton where the rack attachment also bears elastically on each side of the head tube, greatly reducing lateral flex and possible fatiguing due to that. IIRC, the brompton part is a high-strength plastic and has an aft-facing V-block arrangement that bears on the head tube. I hope that makes sense. I don't think that issue is exclusive to the litepro adaptor. The ring clamps will take the lateral load, I think it's only an issue if there is excess stress where they transition to the flat part, or same where the front bracket attaches.

john m flores 

2.4 Odyssey Path Pros. They're ***** in mud so I put them on my town bike that won't see mud. They're way beyond the recommended size for the rim width. I think I read that the failure mode will be from the oversized tire pulling the rim bead outward (laterally).. I'll eventually throw a larger section rim on the bike, one more suitable for the tire.

In the meantime, the All Packa's running 2.15" Schwalbe Marathon 365s, which handled miles and miles of mud like a champ.



(This photo is AFTER I "cleaned" the bike for transport)

Jipe

If the diameter and height fit for the bike head tube, the one of the above picture should not be a problem.

The problem was another model made for the Birdy that instead of having the frame bag tilted to the rear like on the one above, had the frame rack tiled to the front of the bike causing wobbling of the steering of the bike.

I wouldn't trust the Zizzo adapter with its single bottom ring!

I also do not understand why there is only one bottom ring and not a top + a bottom ring like on all other adapters because there is enough space on the Zizzo head tube above the main tube to put a top ring?

Ron Damon

A real shame the bike comes with no front block

Schwinnsta

No because I put an H&H on mine. I think Zizzo limits theirs to 10 to 15 pounds. The only problem with the Litepro that I can see is the angle seems off for most head tubes.

Duragrouch

I think that is an available option. Bike Friday will pretty much do anything for ya.

CrimsonEclipse

Ron Damon

Is that actually true? If so, why doesn't it come standard at those eye watering prices and the marketing as a bike that comes with all manner of attachment points? My low-rent, Chinese FnTrash bikes all have them. In 2024 or 2023, or anytime in the last decade, no small wheel bike should come unequipped with a front block. Ditto for the VO Neutrino.

No holy cows, DG. From those to whom much is paid, much is expected.

Duragrouch

Well, I agree with you, but the same argument could be made about a front derailleur mount, which all BFs used to come with, but as soon as they started offering 1Xs with 3x8 IGH, that was no longer standard. And thus, converting one of those to 2X or 3X is more difficult, although I expect that their seat tube diameter is more standard than a Dahon, and can find clamp-on FDs for it. But yeah, I'd want my bike to have an FD mount, and a front block, even if I didn't plan on using it; Both add little weight, plus a future owner may want them.

IMO, what you're paying most for on a BF is a custom fit frameset. Everything is made to order. Not as critical with normal size folks, but they can easily do XL and XXS sizes (the latter both 20" and 16" wheels). In that regard, their prices are in line with other custom framebuilders.

I'm 90% sure it was a VO Neutrino that I stopped to chat with a couple months ago, stopped on the bike trail fixing a flat. Celeste green I think and very nicely outfitted, really good aesthetics.

Small thread drift: I just saw a pic on VO's website from a customer review; Check out the public bike rack!! Notice stagger-tilted ground racks so handlebars don't clash (and backing in alternate bikes, would make fronted one hard to get out). Also notice upper racks which appear to telescope; I wonder if they tilt down after telescoping to load, or there is a raised walkway where those are accessed? Nice looking system:



Bartender says, "Hey, we don't allow any faster-than-light neutrinos in here."
A neutrino walks into a bar.

Ron Damon

I see 20 x 2.30" Maxxis Grifters. That's what caught me eye.

Reddleman

Having used these racks at a past employer’s bike shed, they were a pain in the arse, and probably more so with disc brakes.

If you park at ground level it’s just a wheel-bender with limited options to lock to your frame and no headspace to work in. If you park at high level you have to pull out the rack until it hinges down, slot your bike into the trough and try to lock your frame to the wheel-bender, then heave the back of the trough with your bike wobbling about up to head level before slotting it back in place. A bunch of Sheffield style U-shaped hoops would be much simpler and cheaper to install and work for a greater range of bike types, plus you don’t run the risk of bending your brake discs.

Rant over.

Duragrouch

No rant worries, thanks for the info. Looked good at first glance, but I see your points. Wow, I would have thought the latter versus the former of my guesses, but yeah, tilting the high racks down and then having to haul back up to telescope back in, yeesh, the weight of my heavy bike plus the wheel track, although part of the weight would be taken by the hinge. So yeah, I've seen better systems.

tds101 

This one will work with a Dahon, and it looks good. I haven't seen anyone have issues.
The Zizzo one I'd personally pass on. Not enough support.
The Zizzo lower weight limit is an issue IMO. The Litepro one has different versions, for different folding bikes, available on their website.

https://liteprobicycle.com/

Schwinnsta

I think the advantage of the Zizzo is that it can be mounted above the top tube and provide more clearance, say for light or even a lower rack. Zizzo does not show it used this way, but I think this is the reason for the one leg design.

jfouellette

Update. This is the latest iteration. Basket is lower making the bike more stable.

Duragrouch

Looks good. Where did you get the silver double-clamps? Those look beefy, enough to take handlebar loads. Most look flimsy in design. I need strong ones for a raised handlebar. Thanks in advance.

jfouellette

Hi, I got this from Litepro

https://liteprobicycle.com/en-ca/col...-birdy-bicycle

I added a tube from an old handlebar.

tds101 

Nice mod...

Duragrouch

Thanks. Those look just a touch different in design from yours, but still look strong. I found ones like on your bike after searching on amazon for "double stem" instead of "double clamp" like I had been. I wish they would specify the center-to-center distance between the clamp holes, I need to know how high it will raise my aero bars. And also the clamp width, to see if it will fit in the 25.4mm clamp area without getting into the tapers (must fit outboard of the aero bar clamp area), otherwise I'll need to go in the wider section which is 22.2mm so doesn't fit the clamps without shims. They never make this stuff easy.