Just how far have C&V prices fallen?
#101
Senior Member
Bizarre alternate reality only experienced by BF members getting scolded by people on group rides when showing up with out of date gear. When in realty the only criticizing seems to be here on the forums insulting riders on new gear. You don’t seem like a group ride guy by the obvious disdain you have for your fellow cyclists.
My comments are not allegations but from real experience and observation. I also jump on Thursday night shootouts, drop rides with 'fellow' cyclist, quite a few of them half my age. Some of these kids are jacked up and solid riders. Actually we all get along very well, each our own competitive exercise. Maybe you'll never understand and not that it matters but I'll keep going for you stereotype.
I enjoy and own a wide variety of bikes, including very current MTB's. My most modern road (though not by today's kids standards) is a carbon Cannondale Supersix Evo w/ caliper brakes. This year for unexplained reasons I've been riding far more the later model bikes.
Staying on topic and discussion of the classic and vintage includes the understanding of the who's buying, what and why's. Maybe you'll learn something and get out of your bubble.
I do what I want, don't cave for the trends. My appreciation for classic bikes mostly started 40 years ago. Even still have earliest ti and carbon bikes to a few post war lightweights. Toe clips, DT shifters, direct lever action derailleurs are a blast for me. Bomb the descents and grind the climbs the way the bike was made back when is rewarding to me. I don't whine or wimp and truly enjoy a hardcore ride, solo or with younger punks. Bye.
Likes For chain_whipped:
#102
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,995
Bikes: old ones
Liked 10,458 Times
in
7,255 Posts
I have no feel for what's going on in NYC, but I have some idea of what I see that rides around here, where I live. Disc brakes, e-bikes...the world is very different for the most part. Nothing wrong with that. But my point was more toward the idea of re-use. As opposed to new. Which I suppose can then get re-used. But maybe doesn't, for various reasons. I've been giving away some stuff. I get some pretty strange questions on it, at times. It was a comment mostly on what I've seen and experienced locally. These better bikes from the 70's and 80's are seen more as an oddity now, for the most part. There are some enthusiasts, but they are few in number.
Likes For 3alarmer:
#103
You seem like a cool dude. I'm betting that some folks here maybe took some of your descriptions of your generation and applied all the negative ones to you
There are a lot of great things about the newer generations - some of which I really enjoyed and admired when working w/ HS students a few years back.
Regarding buying power, I do think what you say is real. You look around at home prices and its like...man, how would I ever be able to afford a home if I was buying right now? On the other hand, I hear conversations of folks younger than me and some of the stuff that they spend their money on seems wasteful. A lot of convenient, non-essential subscription-based services which suck budgets dry, $8 coffees everyday and think of how much new phones and data plans cost, which a lot of value is placed on. I remember when the 'purchasing power' argument was also made about my generation (millenial, unfortunately). It's true of every new generation - of course they are going to have less buying power because they are young, impulsive, unwise with finances (comparatively), and haven't had time to 'climb the ladder' to higher paying jobs yet. The generation after Z will probably also less purchasing power than Z will have once gen Z has more time in the markets.
Regarding old bikes - times change, and the older generations grew up staring and drooling at those Raleigh Pros and Colnagos and Masis. The newer gen doesn't care, that's not their experience. One day people are going to be restoring Priuses.
I like old bikes because aesthetically, they are better looking and cheaper than newer bikes. I also find them less ethically-challenged than new bikes (unless they are stolen). I have no way to know if the newest carbon wonder frame from China is made w/ the equivalent of sweatshop labor and Foxconn-style building nets. And how do you recycle carbon when its past its life cycle? So, no. And Chinese e-bikes (or rather, all e-bikes?) have batteries that are made w/ cobalt which is probably sourced from child slavery in the Congo. So, nope. If those things weren't an issue, I'd probably be more into them. Sign me up for wooden bikes.
There are a lot of great things about the newer generations - some of which I really enjoyed and admired when working w/ HS students a few years back.
Regarding buying power, I do think what you say is real. You look around at home prices and its like...man, how would I ever be able to afford a home if I was buying right now? On the other hand, I hear conversations of folks younger than me and some of the stuff that they spend their money on seems wasteful. A lot of convenient, non-essential subscription-based services which suck budgets dry, $8 coffees everyday and think of how much new phones and data plans cost, which a lot of value is placed on. I remember when the 'purchasing power' argument was also made about my generation (millenial, unfortunately). It's true of every new generation - of course they are going to have less buying power because they are young, impulsive, unwise with finances (comparatively), and haven't had time to 'climb the ladder' to higher paying jobs yet. The generation after Z will probably also less purchasing power than Z will have once gen Z has more time in the markets.
Regarding old bikes - times change, and the older generations grew up staring and drooling at those Raleigh Pros and Colnagos and Masis. The newer gen doesn't care, that's not their experience. One day people are going to be restoring Priuses.
I like old bikes because aesthetically, they are better looking and cheaper than newer bikes. I also find them less ethically-challenged than new bikes (unless they are stolen). I have no way to know if the newest carbon wonder frame from China is made w/ the equivalent of sweatshop labor and Foxconn-style building nets. And how do you recycle carbon when its past its life cycle? So, no. And Chinese e-bikes (or rather, all e-bikes?) have batteries that are made w/ cobalt which is probably sourced from child slavery in the Congo. So, nope. If those things weren't an issue, I'd probably be more into them. Sign me up for wooden bikes.
I demand value, maintainability, and durability in most things. That rollaboard mentioned above, top quality except the wheels which had junk bearings which failed, I replaced with inline skate wheels and now it'll last forever. I've bought two bikes new in my lifetime, 1) A kmart 3-speed with a year's saved allowance, it worked, is all I could say, and 2) A Cannondale racer after graduating college, mid-priced, excellent value in a bike, I still have, in storage after 70k miles, only regret is wishing I had been more knowledgeable, if had known about rear OLDs, might not have purchased if known that 126mm was being phased out, I don't think I'll be able to fine UG freehubs and cogs going forward. All other bikes have been bought as huge deals used and overhauled to better than new. I didn't have any appreciation back then of the art of quality C&V bikes, now I do, and would probably ride one for function if I found a great deal on one, except that now I'm a 20" folder aficionado, with panniers.
It seems to me that steel frames have had a resurgence with oversize chro-moly tubes and welding, especially for loaded touring, such as Surly and others. I read many years ago that was smart for international touring in remote areas in case of need of repair, I don't know if that is still true.
I want recyclable, that is an even greater consideration for me on anything carbon fiber, than its fragility which is a close second. I want non-proprietary component interface standards, "open source", and wide selection at good prices on things like tires. I want a frame and fork that should last a lifetime in intended use. Repairable frame and common fork replacement are pluses.
I don't know if there has been a resurgence in handbuilt lugged steel frames, or even market maintained; With acoustic guitars, there used to be the big quality makers and that's it, custom builders very rare, but now there are a plethora of custom builders; Craft in that area is better than ever. So is beer.
So compared with a very pricey new bike at thousands of dollars, or overhauling a vintage frame at good cost via parts of amazon, I would choose the latter.
Having said that, only a few years ago, I saw superb deals on new; A Trek 520 chro-moly, and a Masi in same, both 700c touring bikes with superb welds, good tire clearance, disc brakes (in front, Trek with thru-skewers, Masi with forward-facing QR dropouts, and in rear, both having calipers inside the triangle), and well equipped with excellent front and rear racks, I think brifters on the Trek but bar-end shifters on the Masi, the latter more tour-reliable, and both bikes about $1500+tax, out the door, tour-ready. That's a good deal. Neither bike is available any more. That's a shame. I'd be hard-pressed to build up a vintage frame with equal quality and durability, versus the same available new, at a good price; If new and classic-style functional bikes not selling, how can C&V sell, unless only for style and collectibility?
Last edited by Duragrouch; 05-24-24 at 08:05 PM.
Likes For Duragrouch:
#104
The Huffmeister
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 3,132
Bikes: Gängl, Trek 938, Raleigh Professional, Paramount, Allez, Guerciotti, Specialized Stumpjumper, Trek 750, Miyata 1000 < Huffy
Liked 4,008 Times
in
1,618 Posts
Mixed bag. To their credit, many young folks are not eager to own a car, a big money suck, and they also seem to vary experiences over accumulation of things. I know someone graduated in a top field, working at good pay (not as high as in USA, but establishing citizenship in Canada where they schooled, so free medical), and either busing or biking into work. They have a nice vintage Cannondale no-suspension MTB that their dad bought cheap at the pawn shop and being chained outside for years in the pacific northwest, it was pretty ragged, but for $140 in parts and my free labor, it was restored to like-new function, for which they were grateful. They still bus between their apartment in CAN and parent's home in USA. They were grateful to get a black ballistic high-end carryon roller, and superb cookware, that I got at goodwill for 5% and 10% respectively and restored to near new.
I demand value, maintainability, and durability in most things. That rollaboard mentioned above, top quality except the wheels which had junk bearings which failed, I replaced with inline skate wheels and now it'll last forever. I've bought two bikes new in my lifetime, 1) A kmart 3-speed with a year's saved allowance, it worked, is all I could say, and 2) A Cannondale racer after graduating college, mid-priced, excellent value in a bike, I still have, in storage after 70k miles, only regret is wishing I had been more knowledgeable, if had known about rear OLDs, might not have purchased if known that 126mm was being phased out, I don't think I'll be able to fine UG freehubs and cogs going forward. All other bikes have been bought as huge deals used and overhauled to better than new. I didn't have any appreciation back then of the art of quality C&V bikes, now I do, and would probably ride one for function if I found a great deal on one, except that now I'm a 20" folder aficionado, with panniers.
It seems to me that steel frames have had a resurgence with oversize chro-moly tubes and welding, especially for loaded touring, such as Surly and others. I read many years ago that was smart for international touring in remote areas in case of need of repair, I don't know if that is still true.
I want recyclable, that is an even greater consideration for me on anything carbon fiber, than its fragility which is a close second. I want non-proprietary component interface standards, "open source", and wide selection at good prices on things like tires. I want a frame and fork that should last a lifetime in intended use. Repairable frame and common fork replacement are pluses.
I don't know if there has been a resurgence in handbuilt lugged steel frames, or even market maintained; With acoustic guitars, there used to be the big quality makers and that's it, custom builders very rare, but now there are a plethora of custom builders; Craft in that area is better than ever.
So compared with a very pricey new bike at thousands of dollars, or overhauling a vintage frame at good cost via parts of amazon, I would choose the latter.
Having said that, only a few years ago, I saw superb deals on new; A Trek 520 chro-moly, and a Masi in same, both 700c touring bikes with superb welds, good tire clearance, disc brakes (in front, Trek with thru-skewers, Masi with forward-facing QR dropouts, and in rear, both having calipers inside the triangle), and well equipped with excellent front and rear racks, I think brifters on the Trek but bar-end shifters on the Masi, the latter more tour-reliable, and both bikes about $1500+tax, out the door, tour-ready. That's a good deal. Neither bike is available any more. That's a shame. I'd be hard-pressed to build up a vintage frame with equal quality and durability, versus the same available new, at a good price; If new and classic-style functional bikes not selling, how can C&V sell, unless only for style and collectibility?
I demand value, maintainability, and durability in most things. That rollaboard mentioned above, top quality except the wheels which had junk bearings which failed, I replaced with inline skate wheels and now it'll last forever. I've bought two bikes new in my lifetime, 1) A kmart 3-speed with a year's saved allowance, it worked, is all I could say, and 2) A Cannondale racer after graduating college, mid-priced, excellent value in a bike, I still have, in storage after 70k miles, only regret is wishing I had been more knowledgeable, if had known about rear OLDs, might not have purchased if known that 126mm was being phased out, I don't think I'll be able to fine UG freehubs and cogs going forward. All other bikes have been bought as huge deals used and overhauled to better than new. I didn't have any appreciation back then of the art of quality C&V bikes, now I do, and would probably ride one for function if I found a great deal on one, except that now I'm a 20" folder aficionado, with panniers.
It seems to me that steel frames have had a resurgence with oversize chro-moly tubes and welding, especially for loaded touring, such as Surly and others. I read many years ago that was smart for international touring in remote areas in case of need of repair, I don't know if that is still true.
I want recyclable, that is an even greater consideration for me on anything carbon fiber, than its fragility which is a close second. I want non-proprietary component interface standards, "open source", and wide selection at good prices on things like tires. I want a frame and fork that should last a lifetime in intended use. Repairable frame and common fork replacement are pluses.
I don't know if there has been a resurgence in handbuilt lugged steel frames, or even market maintained; With acoustic guitars, there used to be the big quality makers and that's it, custom builders very rare, but now there are a plethora of custom builders; Craft in that area is better than ever.
So compared with a very pricey new bike at thousands of dollars, or overhauling a vintage frame at good cost via parts of amazon, I would choose the latter.
Having said that, only a few years ago, I saw superb deals on new; A Trek 520 chro-moly, and a Masi in same, both 700c touring bikes with superb welds, good tire clearance, disc brakes (in front, Trek with thru-skewers, Masi with forward-facing QR dropouts, and in rear, both having calipers inside the triangle), and well equipped with excellent front and rear racks, I think brifters on the Trek but bar-end shifters on the Masi, the latter more tour-reliable, and both bikes about $1500+tax, out the door, tour-ready. That's a good deal. Neither bike is available any more. That's a shame. I'd be hard-pressed to build up a vintage frame with equal quality and durability, versus the same available new, at a good price; If new and classic-style functional bikes not selling, how can C&V sell, unless only for style and collectibility?
If newer kids are not into vintage, it is what it is, and yelling at the clouds, spitting in the wind, may be the only option, although I've heard of some having favorable interactions with younger folks and talking about older bikes, planting the seed, etc. I think more of the aesthetic comes with age - its rare to find when you are young. Those are tastes that get refined over time. I think one of the better avenues is to pursue the limited impact one makes w/ a used steel bicycle vs a new carbon bike, or a new e-bike. Cost is less, parts are stuff are going to be less as well, just gotta have a willingness to invest in a small amount of basic maintenance knowledge - servicing hubs/bb/headset, truing wheels, running cables, adjusting brakes and derailleurs, and you are nearly there.
But now that the price of older bikes continues to get even less and less, that 'smaller purchasing power' lines up even better w/ older bikes for sale
__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!
#105
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,995
Bikes: old ones
Liked 10,458 Times
in
7,255 Posts
...I think I was referencing market share, Tom. And the fact that the manufacturing industry for bicycles (as a whole), has a dominant position there. And they churn out a lot of product. The stuff we value in C+V is continually referenced as obsolete, (rim brakes, DT shifters, etc.) So who would really want to spend money on such a thing ?
I have no feel for what's going on in NYC, but I have some idea of what I see that rides around here, where I live. Disc brakes, e-bikes...the world is very different for the most part. Nothing wrong with that. But my point was more toward the idea of re-use. As opposed to new. Which I suppose can then get re-used. But maybe doesn't, for various reasons. I've been giving away some stuff. I get some pretty strange questions on it, at times. It was a comment mostly on what I've seen and experienced locally. These better bikes from the 70's and 80's are seen more as an oddity now, for the most part. There are some enthusiasts, but they are few in number.
I have no feel for what's going on in NYC, but I have some idea of what I see that rides around here, where I live. Disc brakes, e-bikes...the world is very different for the most part. Nothing wrong with that. But my point was more toward the idea of re-use. As opposed to new. Which I suppose can then get re-used. But maybe doesn't, for various reasons. I've been giving away some stuff. I get some pretty strange questions on it, at times. It was a comment mostly on what I've seen and experienced locally. These better bikes from the 70's and 80's are seen more as an oddity now, for the most part. There are some enthusiasts, but they are few in number.
Apart from a few resources like this forum, and websites like Classic Lightweights, etc., and maybe some few YouTube guys, the higher end classic bicycle demographic pales in comparison. So there's not as much interest, and you get the idea that "$150 is my top price" is a pretty pervasive attitude. I guess the people talking about selling the truly high end stuff on eBay are speaking from practical experience. But they seem to be few, and the exception to overall trending experience. Not sure who their customer base is. But I can guess at it.
#106
Senior Member
If newer kids are not into vintage, it is what it is, and yelling at the clouds, spitting in the wind, may be the only option, although I've heard of some having favorable interactions with younger folks and talking about older bikes, planting the seed, etc. I think more of the aesthetic comes with age - its rare to find when you are young. Those are tastes that get refined over time. I think one of the better avenues is to pursue the limited impact one makes w/ a used steel bicycle vs a new carbon bike, or a new e-bike. Cost is less, parts are stuff are going to be less as well, just gotta have a willingness to invest in a small amount of basic maintenance knowledge - servicing hubs/bb/headset, truing wheels, running cables, adjusting brakes and derailleurs, and you are nearly there.
The only thing I don't like about modern tech is currently the information on it is fleeting. Stuff is cool, but I can't have all the stuff so reading about it is something everyone can do. What happens when this site disappears? Also, 2 Japanese collectors come to mind, Hiroshi Ichikawa (HiCampy) and a fellow who's name I don't know that had a site called "My Bianchi". Both these people have/had some rare stuff where there is no information available. They stopped paying for their websites, the information is gone. Thankfully Hiroshi created a book called "Campagnolo Collection" that documents what he had on his site. Yes, the run of books was limited, but even in years to come, I would like to think it will be easier to find than a defunct website. My Bianchi is just gone, unavailable even on the wayback machine. That's a shame. Documentation is necessary to keep information moving forward.
Likes For iab:
#107
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 37
Bikes: Panasonic DX 3000, '91 Hard Rock Sport
Liked 50 Times
in
19 Posts
Regarding buying power, I do think what you say is real. You look around at home prices and its like...man, how would I ever be able to afford a home if I was buying right now? On the other hand, I hear conversations of folks younger than me and some of the stuff that they spend their money on seems wasteful. A lot of convenient, non-essential subscription-based services which suck budgets dry, $8 coffees everyday and think of how much new phones and data plans cost, which a lot of value is placed on. I remember when the 'purchasing power' argument was also made about my generation (millenial, unfortunately). It's true of every new generation - of course they are going to have less buying power because they are young, impulsive, unwise with finances (comparatively), and haven't had time to 'climb the ladder' to higher paying jobs yet. The generation after Z will probably also less purchasing power than Z will have once gen Z has more time in the markets.
I like old bikes because aesthetically, they are better looking and cheaper than newer bikes. I also find them less ethically-challenged than new bikes (unless they are stolen). I have no way to know if the newest carbon wonder frame from China is made w/ the equivalent of sweatshop labor and Foxconn-style building nets. And how do you recycle carbon when its past its life cycle? So, no. And Chinese e-bikes (or rather, all e-bikes?) have batteries that are made w/ cobalt which is probably sourced from child slavery in the Congo. So, nope. If those things weren't an issue, I'd probably be more into them. Sign me up for wooden bikes.
You are new here. Atlas Shrugged is a broken record, he thinks C&V members are meanies who hate on new stuff. When in reality, they troll here and gets their undies in a bunch when correctly told for the caliber of cyclists on BF it doesn't matter if you ride the latest and greatest wonder bike or the janky old crap I tend to have. I was responding to that, not Chainwhipped.
But since you asked, as far as what Chainwhipped wrote, I have never experienced what they experienced. The group rides I'm on are very congenial, everyone helps out everyone else. And when I was young I was called wasteful and lazy. I believe my father was called the same when he was young. Hating on younger generations is as old as dirt. I don't abide, but I don't get my undies in a bunch about it because it is nothing new and will continue on long after I'm gone.
Likes For cleverbeefalo:
#108
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 9,013
Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,
Liked 6,250 Times
in
2,009 Posts
Dang, I can't get my boxes anywhere near that small for a normal size bike. I usually leave the rear wheel on to protect the triangle and RD. I guess I could take them both off, but where do you put the rear wheel? The front wheel is already taking most of the side space up along the frame.
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
Likes For jamesdak:
#109
Senior Member
But enough kvetching from me. I'm off for a ride, lovely day here.
Likes For iab:
#110
Likes For FrejusFlyer:
#111
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,923
Bikes: 82 Medici, 85 Ironman, 2011 Richard Sachs
Liked 2,239 Times
in
1,218 Posts
Ten years ago +/-, our old bikes listed on CL competed with other new and used bicycles in a very broad market. Today our old bikes are competing with motorbikes. Bikes I sold to non-enthusiasts a few years ago were purchased to ride with friends who had bikes. Many of those friends now have motorbikes and their numbers are growing. I pedaled past a group of motorbikes on my way home yesterday and one in the group answered her phone, “Oh hi. Fine. We’re on a bike ride.” Wtf?
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Likes For Classtime:
#112
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,370
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Liked 3,324 Times
in
2,000 Posts
Just my opinion, but I think there is no doubt vintage bikes are going the way of the model train. Sure, you'll have onesies and twosies of younger folks who get into it, but their numbers will be significantly less than current enthusiasts (or, at the peak, the number of enthusiasts of the mid/late double aughts).
There are some high-end collectible Lionel trains from the 1950s that still command high value, based predominately on condition. But I am able to buy less-perfect pieces today for prices that would have been unheard of 30 years ago. The guys who had massive collections of trains are dying off, flooding the market, Kids today generally couldn't care less about model trains. So...a boon for me, but not so much for the guys who planned on lavish retirement living by cashing in on their "investment."
Likes For smd4:
#113
Senior Member
I have sold off about a dozen bikes in the last year. They were mostly pretty high end vintage steel bikes. The prices were not great by any measurement. I still plan on selling 3-4 more or the bikes listed beneath name on the left. I am getting the distinct feeling that sale prices will be worse for these than the ones I sold last year. I am kind of dreading listing them for sale. I live in the Twin Cities which is a hot bike market so I am guessing prices are worse in other areas. I don't think there are a lot of us left that prefer classic and vintage bikes to carbon or e-bikes.
Likes For rjhammett:
#114
The Huffmeister
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 3,132
Bikes: Gängl, Trek 938, Raleigh Professional, Paramount, Allez, Guerciotti, Specialized Stumpjumper, Trek 750, Miyata 1000 < Huffy
Liked 4,008 Times
in
1,618 Posts
Just my opinion, but I think there is no doubt vintage bikes are going the way of the model train. Sure, you'll have onesies and twosies of younger folks who get into it, but their numbers will be significantly less than current enthusiasts (or, at the peak, the number of enthusiasts of the mid/late double aughts). Less demand, less money, as simple as that. Fine by me, times should change, no need to fight it nor wring your hands about it either.
The only thing I don't like about modern tech is currently the information on it is fleeting. Stuff is cool, but I can't have all the stuff so reading about it is something everyone can do. What happens when this site disappears? Also, 2 Japanese collectors come to mind, Hiroshi Ichikawa (HiCampy) and a fellow who's name I don't know that had a site called "My Bianchi". Both these people have/had some rare stuff where there is no information available. They stopped paying for their websites, the information is gone. Thankfully Hiroshi created a book called "Campagnolo Collection" that documents what he had on his site. Yes, the run of books was limited, but even in years to come, I would like to think it will be easier to find than a defunct website. My Bianchi is just gone, unavailable even on the wayback machine. That's a shame. Documentation is necessary to keep information moving forward.
The only thing I don't like about modern tech is currently the information on it is fleeting. Stuff is cool, but I can't have all the stuff so reading about it is something everyone can do. What happens when this site disappears? Also, 2 Japanese collectors come to mind, Hiroshi Ichikawa (HiCampy) and a fellow who's name I don't know that had a site called "My Bianchi". Both these people have/had some rare stuff where there is no information available. They stopped paying for their websites, the information is gone. Thankfully Hiroshi created a book called "Campagnolo Collection" that documents what he had on his site. Yes, the run of books was limited, but even in years to come, I would like to think it will be easier to find than a defunct website. My Bianchi is just gone, unavailable even on the wayback machine. That's a shame. Documentation is necessary to keep information moving forward.
There is a good video I saw a few years ago (wish I could find it now) about a guy who is passionate about woodworking and helping wayward kids who have no other trajectory than prison develop a passion for it. He describe this phenomenon using the analogy of a train, that we keep throwing information overboard, even as we steam towards a future of unrestricted access to most information - then that information is lost. In the video, he does a quick demonstration of how, on a wood turning lathe plate, they used to make that little round decorative square found at the corners of the trim that surrounded doorways in most of the old homes from 100 years ago.
__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!
#115
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay Area, East bay
Posts: 7,978
Bikes: Miyata 618 GT, Marinoni, Kestral 200, Soma double cross 2002 Trek 5200, KHS Flite, Koga Miyata, Schwinn Spitfire 5, Mondia Special, Univega Alpina, Miyata team Ti, Santa Cruz Highball, Waterford rs11
Liked 3,058 Times
in
1,391 Posts
Rosette...
Likes For curbtender:
#116
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,030
Bikes: 1964(?) Frejus Tour de France, 1967(?) Dawes Double Blue, 1979 Trek 710, 1982 Claud Butler Dalesman, 1983 Schwinn Paramount Elite, 2014 Brompton, maybe a couple more
Liked 753 Times
in
366 Posts
I didn't know Holdsworth made folding bikes. Looks more compact than a Brompton.
#117
Cantilever believer
Takes longer to fold than a Friday.
__________________
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
#118
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Kingdom of Hawai'i
Posts: 1,270
Bikes: Peugeot, Legnano, Fuji, Zunow, De Rosa, Miyata, Bianchi, Pinarello, Specialized, Bridgestone, Cinelli, Merckx
Liked 571 Times
in
248 Posts
Margins aren't great right now, would not want to be a flipper.
Isn't this kind of thing cyclical? If you already see your time collecting and wrenching on vintage bikes coming to an end, then it's easy to get worried about the market.
Everything I have is hand built and made somewhere by someone doing something special. It'll come back around.
A lot of my bikes could qualify as art, just the rideable kind.
Isn't this kind of thing cyclical? If you already see your time collecting and wrenching on vintage bikes coming to an end, then it's easy to get worried about the market.
Everything I have is hand built and made somewhere by someone doing something special. It'll come back around.
A lot of my bikes could qualify as art, just the rideable kind.
Likes For billytwosheds:
#119
Steel is real
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Not far from Paris
Posts: 2,453
Bikes: 1992Giant Tourer,1992MeridaAlbon,1996Scapin,1998KonaKilaueua,1993Peugeot Prestige,1991RaleighTeamZ(to be upgraded),1998 Jamis Dragon,1992CTWallis(to be built),1998VettaTeam,1995Coppi(to be built),1993Grandis(to be built)
Liked 1,273 Times
in
847 Posts
From my point of view,I check regularly price of frames such as Tommasini Techno Extra or Coppi made by Maschiaghi or Bianchi and when the tubing is high end and the condition outstanding, the prices aren't like to go down, ditto for Cannondale frames made in the US as well as the rare stumpjumper, sworks, FSR made in M2&M4 made in the US same with the older GT Zaskars, STS and Xizang as well as their rare road frame made of Reynolds 853 and the one with a frame made of titanium. The Breezer and the Scott Endorphin MTBs aren't cheap as well. The 7700-7800 Dura Ace new old stock parts prices have skyrocketed worse for the campy nuovo record. Some deals can be with the Treks 2200-2300 alumnium alpha road frames and their 6500-6700-8000slr mountain bike counterparts. The zr9000 frames are more expensive than they were three years ago. Frames from brands like Wilier, Faggin, Basso and Grandis also command a premium when using the highest grade tubing. Even older 26 rims for MTB when high end aren't cheap anymore , worse if you want to purchase a complete sets of older crossmax or crossride of the older generation in oustanding condition. I have never sold a bike, gave one as presents to a neighbor who helped me and one to my bike tech. In my country, people have a bad tendancy to think that what is vintage must and should be cheap by default. If I am ever going to sell something someone day which I doubt, it is going to be at the price of the market and regarding the condition my bike is but I am not going to sell it for cheap.
#120
Full Member
Likes For BMC_Kid:
#121
Steel is real
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Not far from Paris
Posts: 2,453
Bikes: 1992Giant Tourer,1992MeridaAlbon,1996Scapin,1998KonaKilaueua,1993Peugeot Prestige,1991RaleighTeamZ(to be upgraded),1998 Jamis Dragon,1992CTWallis(to be built),1998VettaTeam,1995Coppi(to be built),1993Grandis(to be built)
Liked 1,273 Times
in
847 Posts
Likes For cleverbeefalo:
#123
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,820
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Liked 3,660 Times
in
2,204 Posts
I Going forward I'll just save longer until I can afford the Madone or S-Works that has disc brakes, a modern mechanical drivetrain, and more clearance for cushy fat tires (38 and above). When that day comes I won't have to worry about 40 year old tech failing while I'm cruising around. I'll be able to find NEW replacement parts and avoid the fleabay gougers. And I won't have weird old bike things that I have to constantly check to make sure I'm still good to ride..
#124
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 37
Bikes: Panasonic DX 3000, '91 Hard Rock Sport
Liked 50 Times
in
19 Posts
I'm not so sure you can always find parts as easy for newer bikes. You will often see in the mechanics section people looking for parts like FH, RD hangers, brifter covers/hoods, hub parts etc. and coming up empty. With the old tech you can frequently mix and match components between manufacturers. I'm also seeing issues with proprietary parts availability like seat posts and stems, not to mention the numerous BB types out there. With a C&V frame pretty much from the 80's on with standard threads, ability to respace, you can restomod new tech onto an old frame.
Besides, I was speaking in generalities. It's not hard to point out the exceptions. My argument was not "it's always easier to find replacement parts for every new bike than it is to get old parts for C&V bikes to mix and match." That'd be silly. Actually one of the best "upgrades" to bikes is the wheelset. By virtue of choosing C&V you're limited to rim-brake compatible rims (already miniscule to choose from) and the clearance of that particular frame. As others have pointed out, documentation on these bikes often goes by the wayside, so I'm left digging through forums for info that may or may not be correct. Considering I didn't grow up with the bikes I don't have all the details memorized. There are many tangles to sort through to actually build up a C&V bike. If I didn't enjoy the process I probably wouldn't do it/may not do it again. I don't know.
Realistically, in my budget, hopefully the new Cues brifters are out if I build another bike. Compatibility would be much simplified at that point.
Not sure how any of this pertains to the current prices of C&V, though...
#125
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,995
Bikes: old ones
Liked 10,458 Times
in
7,255 Posts
same with the older GT Zaskars, STS and Xizang as well as their rare road frame made of Reynolds 853
I wish it were not that way, and I agree that it might turn around, if suddenly higher end steel becomes trendy again. Right now, here, I think it's not.
Likes For 3alarmer: