keraba

I was trying to give my old Campy BB an overhaul (the first that it's ever had, AFAIK) when I discovered that the spindle is slightly pitted. Anticipating replacing the BB entirely, I tried taking off the drive-side cup. According to Zinn, it should be right-hand threaded, however, it doesn't want to come off. I haven't tried heating the BB and cooling the cup but that's next.

Have I read Zinn correctly ? Is there something that they do to the cup to lock it in (since it doesn't have a lockring) ?

well biked

If your bottom bracket is English thread, you're turning it the wrong way. The fixed cup is left-hand threaded, the adjustable cup is right-hand thread. If it's Italian threaded, then it's right hand thread for both sides.

keraba

It's a Giubilato frame and Campy BB so I assumed it was right-handed. Is there some way to verify ?

well biked

If it's an Italian bottom bracket, the bb shell should be 70mm wide, if it's English, 68mm width-

keraba

Thanks for reminding me. Yes, the calipers say 70mm and the spindle says 70-SS, so I guess it's time for fire and ice.

well biked

One thing about it, Italian threaded bb's have to be super-tight to keep from loosening, that's probably why you can't loosen it, it was put on with LOTS of torque to begin with. Good luck with it-

HillRider

Further confirmation may be available from any engraving on the cups themselves. If they say 36mm x 24tpi they are Italian. If they say 1.37" x 24tpi, they are English.

keraba

Thanks for the additional info. They do indeed say, "36 x 24F Made in Italy Campagnolo" so, unless Campy made left-hand threads at one point, they are right-handed.

Part of my trouble is that I was using a headset wrench, Park's HCW-15. While it is 36mm, it's just not strong enough to take off the cup. The tips bend before applying any torque. I'll pick up an HCW-4 which completely surrounds the cup and give it a try.

Thanks for everyone's quick and generous help!

well biked

It does sound like you've got an Italian threaded bb, but it's not because the bb is Campy, it's because the frame is threaded that way. Campy bb's are made to different standards, you just have to make sure you get the right one for a particular frame (English, Italian, etc.). Hopefully, the new wrench will help you loosen the bb. If it doesn't, I'd take it in to a bike shop and see if they can loosen it before I'd apply a torch. And btw, I think most newer Italian frames have adopted English thread at the bb, it's a better design because of the reverse threads on the drive side to keep the bb from loosening-

phoebeisis

I have had good luck using some sort of clamp-pipe of wood or whatever to actually hold the wrench on the BB cup.It might take two clamps, and another set of hands. Then give the wrench a very sharp rap with a fairly long 2x4-several raps if necessary while your helper holds the wrench and various clamps in place. The helper will be preloading the wrench so it stays in full contact with the cup.If it isn't in full contact, it will deform the cup when you give it the rap.


Put the clamp on the underside of the BB-so it is pushing the short side of the wrench head "into" the BB and driveside cup.Put a small piece of thick plywood on the other side of the plywood.
Your helper then presses the long side of the wrench into the BB. This keeps thew wrench firmly on the BB cup while you whaaaap it several times.
It takes very high peak torque to initially break it free after so many years.The sharp hit provides that.
You might initially try to get some sort of penetrating oil(careful on the paint) in contact with the threads. You also want to gently do some metal to metal tapping on the cup to set up a little vibration to break up the corrosion bonds that have formed over the years.Wait about 30 minutes after the metal to metal tapping before you do you "big hits".
The rapid heating cooling might "break up" the corrosion bonds, but the metal to metal tapping is easier,safer.
Use the clamps/helper to keep the wrench in place-hit it(2x4 or heavy little maul-2x4 is safer for the frame-just in case)! Careful about the frame-have helper wear leather gloves(don't ask!!)
Luck,
Charlie

Dr.Deltron

In the picture is the Stein Fixed Cup Wrench Clamp. United Bicycle Supply #SN-FFC1
(top 2 pieces) This is a "must have" tool for easy BB work. I got one after rigging the idea (shown in bottom opart of picture).

The "Rig"; (from left to right)

A) Nut,
B) washer that fits closely to bolt o.d.
C) washer big enough to cover the fixed cup & wrench
D) the offending fixed cup
E) thick keather washer (to protect the cup race)
F) THICK metal washer
G) Bolt

This rig is used with the other BB parts removed. The Stein tool is used with BB spindle and bearings in place, and can be used on nutted or bolt type spindles.

Hope that helps!

dreamy

I used the home made tool at the bottom of the page here (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html) on a very stuck one that I had actually given up on ever gettign off after trying everyhting else I could think of. It removed the cup, but I did have to cut the bolt off with a hacksaw afterwards as I had to tighten it so much it mangled the washers and there was no way I was ever goign to be able to unscrew it

keraba

Those tools sound handy but I'm not sure that they're appropriate in this case. We suspect that this cup uses standard right-hand threading, so unscrewing the BB will just unscrew the bolt. Please correct me if I've got this wrong because it sounds cheap and easy.

My plan, once I get the HCW-4 tool, is to clamp it on using plywood spacers, just to make sure it doesn't pop off. I'll tap it like phoebeisis suggests. Finally, I'll extend the tool with either a pipe or 2x4 and pull like crazy.

dreamy

It works for both threadings - you just turn it around and screw from the other side and it unscrews the cup in the opposite direction.

I also thought it sounded too easy, but it worked for me after I had pretty much given up!

Dr.Deltron

Clamp the HCW-4 tool to the cup using the "Rig" tool I pictured above. The difference between mine and Sheldon's is that I use a BIG washer to hold the HCW-4 onto the cup. The washer pictured on Sheldons site doesn't look big enough to cover the cup & wrench.
Also using a "dead-blow" hammer works very well to persuade the cup to come out.

keraba

Sheldon's method isn't intended to be used with an HCW-4. You use a standard 3/4" or adjustable and crank away. I too can now report that the method works. It took my wife helping by leaning on the tightening wrench but the cup finally budged.

As a suggestion to others who may try it, I think you want to use as fine of threads as possible. Otherwise, you just spin the contraption around and around. Also, oil on the _threads_ of the bolt would probably help (obviously any oil on the washers will ruin it) but more importantly, would help remove the nut when you're done. I had to Dremel mine off.

Thanks again to all who posted!