VeganRider

You would understand what pride of ownership means if you owned a ti bike. Gee,, just calm down there bucko. I sota figured your opinoin was based on hearsay and no real experience; guess I was right! Why did all these people spend thousands on a ti bike if they thought they were noodles anyhow? I don't get it. And who here is ridding in the tour and what does any of that have to do with us? Reality check.....?

mingsta

Ah, you must be the forum expert then.

I take it that you work in a bikeshop and am speaking from experience from riding 100's of bikes, or are you just as much of a "read it somewhere, so it must be true" expert as the people that you're trying to mock?

baiskeli

A lot of the benefits of steel without the weight (at a higher price). However, you don't have to pay an arm and a leg. I built up an Airborne Zeppelin (the company that is now Flight) that was sub 18 pounds for less than $3000 (at the time you could get the frame (titanium) for $799. I ended up giving away the frame cause it didn't fit me perfectly (and now ride a Jamis Quest steel frame) but I totally loved the ride of the Airborne (and that year if I remember Bicycle Editors named the Zepellin bike of the year). I think there are a number of other manufacturers who retail decent titanium frames for less than $2000

For me the ti benefits were
1. Comfortable yet lively ride
2. Light
3. Clean looks (no paint etc)

Ramjm_2000

Hmmm I bet if you actually looked you'd find significantly more stating the opposite.

Laughable. Pros ride what they get paid to ride.


Huhhh? That's just plain silly. Designers use appropriate materials with appropriate properties for specific applications.

slowandsteady

So I can only know what pride of ownership means if I own a bike made from a ridiculously expensive material that I don't need? Still looking for an explanation.

Hearsay is when person A witnesses person B doing something. Then person A tells person C what person B did. Hearing directly from the person that their own Ti bike was noodley is not hearsay.

Why did all these people spend thousands? I don't know. Pride of ownership maybe..... Why does someone buy a $35k car over a $25k car? Why does someone with no children buy a 5 bedroom 5,000sf house? You got me.


And finally, those in the tour are riding what is light, stiff, and fast. If they accurately described a Ti bike, that is what they would be riding in the tour. I don't even race, so a super stiff bike isn't necessarily what I want. And I don't necessarily want what a pro rider rides. But, that has nothing to do with the premise that Ti bikes are light, stiff, and fast which is what people are claiming.

And for others who think they ride what they are given, that isn't exactly true either. All of their bikes have been modified from stock to suit the rider. Nobody is riding the bike they appear to be riding.


And still, Ti frames CAN be stiff just like steel can be stiff and alum can be noodley. It has more to do with geometry than anything. But, I guess you tell yourself whatever you have to to justify the exorbitant cost of Ti.

BikeWNC

Magnus Backstedt won Paris Roubaix on a Ti Bianchi frame. Obviously it was stiff enough for him at near 200 lbs. They had to do some special things to the frame to meet his needs but how many here put out that kind of wattage? Really, it's more about the engine than the bike, whatever it's made from.

voltman

The extra price for titanium is attributable to the included chip on your shoulder.

Ramjm_2000

If you actually belive that all pros can race what ever they want your kidding yourself. Especially these days. Who do you get your info from? I do have a close friend who races professionally and two others who work for major component companies. To state it again, pros ride what they are contractually obligated to ride. Very few pros get to dictate their bike spec like back in the 80s-90s. The days of painted over Serottas, Calfees, Parlees, and Pegorettis are much more rare. Further, companies like Cervelo, Specialized, and the like have invested way too much money in tooling and molds to have special custom ones made for every rider (look at what going on with Tom Boonen), especially the domestiques. They ride stock frames and "customize" via component selection.

slowandsteady

From people who have ridden as pros........

Ramjm_2000

Then please by all means give us the details. What team is ridding on one off custom bikes? I'm serious. I want to know....

wtex

I heard Lance rode a rebadged Litespeed in his first few Tours . . .

Strong Bad

I've ridden steel, aluminum, carbon and ti.
Most of the bikes were high end and very nice riding.
There is no need to turn the discussion into a religious war, almost all materials can be turned into a great bike with the right design and execution.
The bike I ride most now is my Merlin CR, it is light (7200g w/clinchers), very stiff at the BB, and also very comfortable. It was expensive, but no more expensive than many high end carbon or steel (I probably could have found aluminum cheaper).
I love my bike, and I'm happy for the people that love their CF, AL, and Steel bikes.

ratebeer

Well Cervélo designers sit down and talk to Bjarne and the CSC riders and develop bikes for certain professional applications/races. Their work on the R3 the strongest, lightest and victorious bike for Paris-Roubaix is quite notable. They've also tested new bikes and modifications with their professional racers.

I'm sure if the CSC team was begging for titanium, Cervélo could and would arrange it.

Ultimately, professional cycling teams are about money. Money comes mostly from winning and teams will go to ridiculous lengths to produce wins. If titanium bikes aided this cause significantly and indisputably, you'd see all pro racing teams riding titanium. You definitely do not. Disco rides Trek. CSC rides Cervélo. Liquigas rides Cannondale.

Still, good bikes are good bikes, and all these pro level bikes are about equal. Titanium doesn't make a bike any worse than any other.

superslomo

It's absurd to me that people would dump on something that they themselves had no actual personal experience with.

For the Ti vs. Carbon question, it seems to me that a pro can replace a crash damaged CF frame for free immediately, and will get a new one the following year with no worries or cost as well, so the durability factor is completely irrelevant.

Any material can be made/engineered to give you any of a broad set of qualities. For the simple reality as I understand it: Ti has the capacity to be lighter than steel for the same qualities, but it is very difficult to work, and as such is more expensive.

Personally, I would love to have the dough to buy a custom Ti bike, in the meantime I will just ride aluminum until the perfect Ti deal comes rolling along. No paint, no worries... the finish-free look of Ti is just beautiful to my eyes.

And, btw, slowandsteady: Aluminum is NOT corrosion free. Just do a little search on a thing called google and note what they say about Aluminum, salt, water and damage. Might just be interesting for you. Also, which pros do you rely on for your inside info? Not a hostile question, just an honest one.

ccdisce

Add Magnesium to the list.
Pinarello Dogma
Paketa Mg

Ramjm_2000

CSC riders race on stock models (same frames available to you and me) with the exception of prototypes, a fact they brag about.

You are 100% right companies sponsor teams to test equipment and sell bikes. This however doesn't explain the carbon domination in the pro ranks. What does is the ability of companies to mass produce a frame. Ti will always be expensive, difficult to construct well, and be labor intensive. Carbon's costs exponentially decrease with each frame popped out of the mold. If you had the choice between making a sweet riding ti or carbon frame and still make as much money as you could, plus give away lots of free frames to a team which material would you choose?

ViperZ

I would gladly buy another Titanium bike.....



Or a carbon one, or steel, or aluminum....



I fail to understand these constant divisions people try to impart on the material a frame is made of. All 4 major material groups is capable of being made into a fine bike.

ratebeer

Cervélo's work in establishing high quality mass production for carbon frames in Taiwan, requiring lots of hands-on, face-to-face involvement with the production staff and the rejection of thousands of carbon frames for every one accepted, would be a good model for Ti to follow.

Human skilled labor need not be expensive. Ti frame production costs would see the same decrease in cost per unit if Litespeed followed the same model.

I trust engineering over craftsmanship.

Yeah, maybe I have drunk the Cervelo Kool-aid, but companies like Litespeed have done Ti a great disservice. When Cervelo is highlighting the extensive third party stress testing of their frames according to an industry standard they've improved upon and have tested many times beyond, you have the engineers at Litespeed running over aluminum tubing and putting out "Carbonello" stickers.

When the Litespeed corporate image is one of joking engineers making shock jock product claims, who could ever entrust their life to their bikes?

Ritterview

Do you have a link? There are all sorts of RIDE magazines...




...do you mean this one?

Ramjm_2000

I think your probably heading in the right direction with your second option...here is a link to the pdf file.

https://www.trickbits.ashop.com.au/g/...rformance.html

ElJamoquio

+1.

ElJamoquio

I got the $50 bill upgrade. It cost 2.5X as much, but it's way faster.

Surferbruce

steel, alu,ti,and cf can all be made into great bicycle frames. weight and stiffness matter some but frame geometry, construction quality, and proper alignment are all really much more important, not to mention proper fit. in reality nowadays there very few BAD frames out there, i'd dare to say. dress out a motobecane in some decent components and give it to tom boonen, and he's still gonna be fighting for the win.

chzman

i love your work. your brothers should get into cycling too.

https://www.homestarrunner.com

everyone should check out the email Q&A

mx_599

huh? that is a bit pricey...what frame are you referring to? my friend has a moots dura ace that wasn't even close to that.