greenwithwheels

Hey guys, im having a buddy of mine build up a set of single speed cross wheels. I have the rims (Mavic Open Pros) and the hubs(Paul). Im just curious do straight gauge, like dt champions make that much more of a stiff strong wheel than butted, high tension spokes like dt revolutions?

edzo

straight gauge will take a hit from someone else's foot, pedal, or skewer in your spokes better

urbanknight

Do a search and you will find a general concensus that double butted are actually more durable than straight. Not sure about stiffness, though.

Al1943

I have Revolutions on two road bikes and really like them but I don't think I'd put them on a cross-bike. I think straight gauge would be stiffer and easier to maintain. DT Competitions would be the compromise.

Al

waterrockets 

DB is more durable, lighter, and easier to build (inputs are slightly more gradual -- I guess the wind-up could be a negative, but it's easy to overcome with oiled threads). Straight is stiffer and cheaper.

Kicks won't hurt DB spokes any more than straight because they aren't going to break on the thin part anyway, but at the elbow or nipple, where they are the same size as straight gauge.

tellyho

Consensus seems to be double butted are better. As long as you're using the high end hub and rim, might as well spring for DB spokes.

greenwithwheels

By that it sounds that revolutions are the way to go but a stiff wheel is important. So for a cross bike whats the consensus?

WNG

Keep in mind, a spoked wheel is dynamic. A balance of tension negates deflection.
All things being equal except the spokes, the straight gauge will be more rigid a build due to more material.
The DB wheel gives more over impacts and absorbs and distributes the shock better, thus a rim might survive, whereas the rigid one will bust a rim.
Just imagine the springs used in a car, one thick, one thinner, both can suspend a car, but the spring rate of the heavier one will absorb less shock and be more jarring.

J T CUNNINGHAM

+1 for double-butted.

Regards,
J T

Coyote2

Don't go with the Revolutions unless you are a flyweight (<130 lbs) and are easy on wheels -- they won't hold the rims in true. I recommend Competitions.

operator

Huh

waterrockets 

Why is maximum wheel stiffness so important to you? Rim brakes only work when both sides engage, so a slight rub here and there doesn't matter. With disc brakes, you really have no worries.

Stick with 2.0/1.8/2.0 (DT, Wheelsmith, or Sapim) and you're all set.

edzo

can't use disc in cross racing. not the UCI races.

Mr. Fly

According to actual measured data at this site, straight gauge spokes do build into a stiffer wheel. However, the effect is minimal – the comparison between wheels laced with 2.0 mm spokes and 2.0/1.5 mm spokes (i.e., two extremes of commonly available spokes) showed that the 2.0 mm wheel was only about 11% stiffer.

Furthermore, when one actually examines the data, one will realize that the flexibility of wheels is minute – deflections were measured in the range of a couple of millimetres at the rim with a 26 lbs lateral load! The author had postulated that the 26 lbs test load is "almost certainly more than road bike wheels see in normal use."

zonatandem

Have db Revolutions, 32H front, 36H rear, on our tandem. Combined weight just under 250 lbs for the riders + under 30 lbs for the tandem So far only 17,500 miles on 'em . . . no problems. Have done minor true once on each wheel.
And with 2 of us cranking there's a bit more stress on everything, especially on the rear wheel.

maddmaxx 

? I don't know where these numbers come from but I have to disagree strongly. Revolutions on good rims built right hold up as well as anything. I ride at 200lbs and have no problems.

HillRider

I also disagree. I weigh 150 and am not particularly easy on wheels. Considering the state of the roads around me being easy is almost impossible.

I had a pair of wheels built with Wheelsmith XL14 spokes (Wheelsmith's duplicate of Revolutions) using CXP33 rims on Dura Ace hubs. I put 30,000 miles on these wheels, never broke a spoke and did very minor truing exactly once.

Applehead57

I can't say I've noticed a difference.
I replaced both wheels too, so perhaps that masked the difference in the spokes.

TurdFerguson2

The key is that a DB spoke is less stiff and therefore flexes slightly more. This flex takes up some of the load that is on the elbow and threads of the spoke. Most spokes break at either the elbow or the thread/nipple interface. So, the DB spoked wheel is more durable because it transmits less stress to the areas where a spoke is most likely to break.

Coyote2

I guess some other posters (using Revolutions) have better wheelbuilders than me!

HillRider

Perhaps. The wheels I mentioned above were "factory" wheels built by Wheelsmith so there was no custom labor involved. The guy at the LBS I bought them from put them on a truing stand when I got them and announced they were nearly perfect and the tension seemed good to him. He didn't do any touchup and, apparently, none was needed.

Al1943

Revolutions (2.0-1.5-2.0) are my favorite spokes and I ride them every day. The one concern that I have recommending them to others is that under high tension they stretch. For folks who want to use them but haven't tried them before I'd recommend using Competitions (2.0-1.8-2.0) on the driveside rear.

Al

waterrockets 

Yeah, revolutions on the DS are more challenging to build since you have to prevent the spoke from winding up as great tension is applied. They're pretty nice on the NDS though since they have to stretch more to reach tension, they are less likely to go slack on a big hit (= more durable).

grolby

Stiffness is the single most overrated physical attribute of a bicycle component that there ever was. The difference in stiffness between straight gauge and DB spokes will not bring any advantage, and will make for a weaker wheel. Definitely go for the Revolutions.

J T CUNNINGHAM

IMHO DB spokes advantages 'outweigh', any that regular spokes may have.

(If the above makes any sense to you)


Regourds,
J T