fueledbymetal

I've been reading some threads here on titanium bikes and I often see titanium bikes being described as having a springy or lively feel relative to something like carbon fiber. What exactly does this mean?

Dubbayoo

If the frame flexes one way it flexes right back the other way so little energy feels 'lost'. Unlike early Alan aluminum frames that were just flexy noodies.

NealH

Yea, a little flex with a relatively high inherent material resonant frequency provides that "springy" feel. Just how much energy is really lost is debatable. However, most people don't like chain rub (me included) so, the frame (especially the bottom bracket area) needs to be stiff enough to avoid this. The typical carbon material has a different resonance profile, therefore exhibits a more damped sensation. Of course both type bikes can be noodles, and both type bikes can be super stiff depending on the design.

urbanknight

It's even debatable if any energy is lost at all, but I agree that chain rub is a big factor. I'm a lightweight, so I don't have the problem, but I can say that I seem to feel a slight difference when compared to my former steel and aluminum frames. It could be psychological.

zencadance

I ride a stiffer Ti bike but really compared to my other bikes the only thing I see as different is more smoothness.I think so much of this whole bike feel thing is marketing hype,your wheels,your weight.

Fox Farm

Springy lively like carbon???? Carbon feels nothing like that. It feels stiff and dead like a piece of wood.

Hocam

That's a pretty poor analogy.

WheresWaldo

Springy/lively ~ flexy/mushy

arterture

The key word was relative to carbon.

agilis

A compact geometry Ti bike was the best combination I've found. Lively, but stiff. That's why after 2 aluminum frames, and 4 carbon frames, I settled on my Merlin Agilis. Compact geometry, beefy seat stays, and just enough bottom bracket flex under my 190 lb sprinter's physique. Love it.

deadly downtube

when people spend buckets of cash on their bicycle frames, they tend to get a little kooky and talk about their frame like it's not just a hunk of metal...

agilis

I'm betting the team of craftsmen that designed, developed, fabricated, welded, and finished my frame would take slight offense to your hunk of metal comment.

Oh yeah... buckets of cash? I paid less for my Merlin frame than I did my last 2 carbon frames. So I'm not just trying to justify cost.

patentcad

Partially correct, and that's not always a bad thing on a bicycle, far from it. For MTBs, road bikes that won't be racing, etc, that's potentially a great characteristic. And it is possible to make an outstanding race frame from Ti - my Ibis Ti Road's a good example- that's mushy where you want it to be (rear triangle) and stiff where you need it to be (BB), laterally in the front end.

bitterken

Indeed.

The Rite Aid domestic team races on Merlin Works CR Ti frames, as do a couple of development teams in the UK. By using shaped tubes and beefing up the important areas, you can get Ti to be light AND stiff (though not cheap )

WheresWaldo

Didn't say it was good or bad. As you say, it depends on the intended use.

patentcad

My Ibis Ti Road and Cdale Six13 are very different bicycles. The Ibis Ti better for long distance rides/training, still good for racing. That's partly because it is a slightly larger frame size - 56cm vs. 57cm with a 1 cm longer effective TT. I can stretch out and get long a bit better on the Ibis. The Cdale is a bit more compact, really better for racing. Love how the two bikes feel, enjoy swapping back and forth. I think I'll always have a Ti road bike though, and God willing, it may be this Ibis. It has lasted 12 years so far, and hopefully it will never crack.

Like my pal Rich says boys. Once you get over three grand, none of it sucks too bad.

garysol1 

I have never owned a Ti bike before and I have never really given Litespeed's much thought there new Archon does make me rethink a bit of that. It is one SEXY bike.

bigskyTi

Well it depends on who you talk to, but I can really tell the differnce between my Ti frames and the Al and Al/carbon frames i've owned. I've never been on a full carbon ride because I've really had a desire for a 'stiff' ride. I enjoy the 'spring' on both my road frame and my TT frame as I relly feel like you get into a rythm with the bike.

As far as chain rub, I've never had a problem and I go 175-185lbs and can sprint pretty well. All that on a Ghisallo XL which is supposed to be a 'flexy' frame.

Just see if you can get out and ride one. You will either love it or hate it.

Siu Blue Wind

*nods head in agreement*

Mr. Beanz

I have bud with a Merlin ti compact. Beautiful bike with engraving and the works. REAL nice looking. But he says it sucks compared to his steel Pegorrettis.

George

+1, that sure is a sweet looking bike.

agilis

If I'm doing a long rolling or flat ride with a full pack... smelling the flowers... stopping at cafe's... and doing 100 miles of touring per day I can see why a steelie would be the bike of choice. Very plush ride. But for the type of riding i do... steel wouldn't do for me full time. No disrespect to Pegorrettis... they are sweet... but I need a lighter and more nimble frame. To each his own though. But "suck?"... that may be stretching a bit.

Cyclcist4879

My Moots is the most satisfying feel I've ever had in 35 years of cycling. I can't say if its softer, stiffer, faster, or anything else. I can tell you that when I push on it - it goes. And it makes me smile every time, even under the stress of "battle".

My advice is to purchase whatever bike/component that makes you feel good. If it encourages you to get out and "do it" - its worth it.

RC2

[QUOTE=masshoff;6057676]My Moots is the most satisfying feel I've ever had in 35 years of cycling./QUOTE]

+1 (in 25 years of cycling). Just finished building a VaMoots.

I'd describe the feel not as springy, but as lively, really much like stiff steel. Going over something like a rough expansion joint -- on a typical carbon fiber frame you'd feel something like 'thud-thud' (front/back wheel), Al is probably a 'whack-whack', vs. the Ti is more like 'zinnng-zinnnnng'.

patentcad

There's nothing quite like a Ti racing bike. CF bikes may be lighter and stiffer. They may offer a slight edge in performance. But Ti bikes blow them away in feel. What's that worth? Arguably that's all there is. The best combination may be a Ti bike for training and a CF bike for racing. That's what I have.