ozfix

I have a set of 36 hole aeroheads that i was given and some Formula hubs. My questions are what sort of bearing upgrade should i look at for the hubs and i was also thinking about a radial pattern for the front. Other than looks on the front is there any advantages of radial spoke pattern over cross? They are for my first build which is a late 70s (i think) Pogliaghi Track.

Thanks!

TimArchy

There is a lot of debate about radial lacing. For you, the only difference will probably be appearance. I say go for 3-cross on both wheels.

ozfix

Why is there debate over radial v cross i thought it was just a looks thing mostly?

tradtimbo

radial is fine on the front for modern hubs and spokes. Radial pattern puts more stress on the outer edge of the hub flange than a cross pattern, thus it makes a bit weaker. radial pattern on the rear is not a good choice because of the torsion force you place on the wheel as you accelerate. The benefit of radial pattern in the front is shorter spokes, thus a lighter wheel (we're not talking much here).

go with 3 cross.

marqueemoon

I much prefer the look of crossin' spokes.

operator

For 99.9% of the people out there, radial is for looks.

ozfix

Any suggestions on the bearings? Brands etc. Or should I just go and speak to
someone at a bearing supplier/shop?

Cyclist0383

Phil Wood. As you live in a wet climate you'll find that Phil Wood bearings not only roll extremely well, but also have top notch seals and are filled 100% with waterproof grease, not the 30% which you find in commercial bearings.

They are about USD5 apiece, and you'll need four for a complete wheelset.

Phil Wood ships internationally for very reasonable rates. https://www.philwood.com/Phil%20Spec'd%20Bearings.htm

andre nickatina

Yeah, most peole upgrade their Formula bearings to something like Phil when they're shot from what I understand. Not a bad upgrade really, you'll make your bearings spin as smooth as Phils and not drop all that $$$. I'm about to throw some Phils in my crunchy rear Formula just about now as a matter of fact...

There's ceramic bearings too, but unless you're racing they're overkill, and some would argue still overkill if you are racing.

TimArchy

Are the bearings in the formulas bad?

If they are new, you probably won't notice any difference with nicer bearings (with the exception possibly of ceramics). My phil feels a lot like most new formulas I've spun.

As for the radial/cross debate, some people feel that radial lacing is more aerodynamic than cross. It also creates a wheel that has different stiffness properties. For the details, Get Jobst Brant's "The bicycle wheel". It's an overall good read.

operator

Comparing stock forumula to stock phils - the reason the phils are better is because they last longer and are better sealed. Not because they are faster. Stock phil bearings have so much drag in them it's not funny.

TimArchy

too true.

Just saying that its probably a case where the best thing is to wait till the stock bearings are shot and then worrying about upgrading.

Cyclist0383

They aren't bad, but they won't last long if you ride in wet conditions as they only have a rubber seal on one side of the bearing. PW bearings have double seals, and very good ones at that.

andre nickatina

Not bad at all. It's just a matter of waiting for them to crap out, for me it took just about 2 winters and now the rear is done, the front still has life in it though.

Seeing as Phils "have a lot of drag out of the box", do they improve with use or what?

Cyclist0383

PW bearings improve as some of the grease seeps out of the bearing, creating a very nice watertight seal. PW bearings are packed 100% with waterproof grease, while standard bearings are packed about 30% with non-waterproof grease.

kringle

I've been happy with Enduro Max bearings.

andre nickatina

verr nice, can't wait till i get mine in the hubs and broken in. phil wood knows quality

JACQU3S

What exactly does "waterproof" mean when it's used to describe grease?

Cyclist0383

I would assume that it means that it doesn't washout in water like regular grease does.

dirtyphotons

i've not had any problems with stock formula bearings, they lasted me a long time. cheapo replacement bearings ordered from the bike shop, however, lasted less than a year for me. i'd get some phils, or if you don't want to send away pop into your local skate shop and ask for some quality 6000 bearings (inner diameter: 10mm outer: 26mm width 8mm)

shameless plug for my howto thread

Peedtm

It's all fairly negligeble. aerodynamics are improved if the built wheel has all the spoke heads facing out (so the wheel has a front profile that's just a hair narrower than a wheel with alternating in/out facing heads) but to take full advantage of the lateral stiffness lacing radially provides, you want the spoke heads to face in to increase the width of the 'stance' of the spokes (like spreading your legs to improve side to side balance.) There is still some lateral strength benefit because of the shorter spokes.

Buying high flange hubs also adds lateral rigidity, but it costs you more in weight.


edit: mixed up heads and nipples. All corrected

TheScientist

waterproof grease is insoluable in water. So it creates a nice barrier because water can get inz sides

pirate

I have enduro bearings in my formula hub, they are just fine.

operator

That's not what it means

TimArchy

Waterproof grease means that it doesn't wash out when you wipe the excess on your pants.