RoboCheme

did the DA actually operate more smoothly?

I'm trying to decide between Ultegra and DA for my bike and, obviously (I think) the 300 gram weight reduction doesn't justify the $370 price difference that the LBS is quoting me. So, I am searching for other reasons to rationalize the DA choice. Of course, there is the bling factor, which, to tell you the truth, is probably the main reason for the new bike in the first place.

So, back to my question. I've heard it several times that the main difference in upgrading between any groups is that the shifting is a little bit smoother. Did anyone actually notice this when they upgraded from Ultegra to DA?

Are there any other rationalizations that I could use?

Thanks,

Cliff

Blade-Runner

Yes shifting is smoother.

Also, I went from DA to SRAM Red and I'm very very............................... happy I did.

NoGaBiker

Well, it's very easy to spend MUCH more than $1.23 per gram lost on bike upgrades. So reward yourself for your prudence.

brian416

the shifting difference between my Ultegra bike and DA bike is night and day, the DA shifts much better than the Ultegra

bsyptak

I wouldn't justify it on the basis of better shifting. Weight is more defendable.

WCroadie

I can't believe people are saying the difference is night and day. I have 2 bikes that I train and race on. 1 is ultegra and the other is DA. I can't tell the diffence at all. If the bikes are maintained properly you can't tell the difference. Ultegra is more then enough, I would not spend the extra $$, if my bike didn't come with DA I would have bought an ultegra grouppo.

twopoint7

DA has other perks over ultegra, not just weight.

Both Jockey wheels have bearings on the DA instead of just one like ultegra on the rear mech.

bigtea

I like your comment. It is objective and addresses the essential question: what is the marginal return on the investment. A marginally better shifting groupo that saves a few ounces will not provide a commensurate return in performance.

I've always looked at Dura Ace, Campy Record, and SRAM Red as I do expensive wine and perfume. Their greatest value to a non-racing road rider is brand image, not functional benefit.

Jared88

You should at least get the DA cranks. They are very stiff.

sp00ki

Gotta call BS there-- ultegra cranks are (and have been for awhile) stiffer than dura ace. Granted, the difference is almost immeasurably nominal-- but since this thread is (by design) about splitting hairs...

RudeSiggy

I wouldn't call the difference "night and day" but upgrading to DA 7800 from Ultegra 9 speed (circa 2003) that I had beat up and used a lot was a CRAZY difference in performance and shifting. Granted, I don't have the DA crank (got a free s-works crank with my frame, couldn't say no), everything about the DA groupset it better. Even with a compact crank now, where there are supposed to be more shifting problems, I have smoother shifts in the front than I used to with a 53-39 and ultegra. I should say, I've been taking care of my new bike a hell of a lot more than I took care of my old bike. So by the time I took it apart, I'm sure things weren't exactly working as well as they should have. That makes the upgrade to DA that much sweeter and feel like a huge improvement.

Now, there's also Ultegra SL these days... could be a nice middle ground for you. I don't know much about it but have heard it has the mechanics of DA, but not as lightweight. Not so sure - can someone give some input?

By the way, you can get some mad prices on DA7800 nowadays, since 7900 is emerging.

Wested

Doubtful for now. I'm still breaking the bank replacing my older DA 7700 components.

JayC

I know Im going to be in the minority on this one. I had Ultegra, switched to Rival and my LBS guru talked me into switching back to Shimano so I went with DA. I thought DA sucked. It does shift better than Ultegra.. much smoother.. BUT... my DA needed CONSTANT adjustment. Every few weeks I'd be taking it to the shop to adjust the RD. Im a fairly decent bike mechanic and it just kicked my ass... the shop dude could get it to shift "okay" for a couple of weeks then it would start messing up again.

We changed cables and housings and it still didnt shift right for any period of time.

Not to mention, you cant get a DA compact but thats neither here nor there.

Anyway, sold the DA and went back to Force and Im much happier.

kensuf

Ultegra SL. Same guts as DA, quite a bit cheaper. Plus it looks sexy.

WCroadie

Going from 9 spd to 10 spd is night and day, but that's not comparing apples to apples.

Coyote2

Even cheap stuff can be made to shift smoothly. I'll bet these people who claim that DA shifts more smoothly just take better care of their DA bikes, 'cuz their Ultegra-equipped bikes are their second-tier rides.

Ultegra will work just fine in practice.

ScrubJ

+1 I've got Ultegra on my Masi and Dura Ace on my Lynskey, not sure I notice much of a difference in them. I do like the SL stuff and if I were spending money and staying in Shimano I think I'd do the Ultegra.
Have to admit Force is becoming real big locally. So far everyone is happy.

curiouskid55

Been racimg my Ultegra 10 for six months. Rode my DA 10 today. DA is much more efficent and also has much smoother operation. Both work great for Shimano pile of poop.

caloso

I would say yes, but then I went from Ultegra 6500 triple to DA 7800 double. That jump was night and day

merlinextraligh

I've ridden RSX, 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace, and every generation of Dura Ace since they started indexed shifting.

IMHO, 10 speed Dura ace shifts a bit better than 10 speed Ultegra, but I'd be willing to concede the difference is subtle enough it could be plecebo.

I would guarantee you that clean, lubed well adjusted Ultegra set up will outshift a dirty, poorly adjusted Dura Ace setup.

And to put it in perspective, last time I was at the TDF, a number of the Shimano equipped teams had Ultegra components on the back up bikes.

Moreover, I know a fair number of Cat 2's that ride Ultegra.

Booger

I'm guessing we're talking about DA 7800, right? If so, not worth upgrading. $370 is better spent on nice bibs, pro fit, shoes, tools, etc.

I think DA 7900 is shaping up nicely (trimless front derailer, nicer brakes, ergo hoods), though. I'd spring for that.

cctexas

I rode Ultegra 10sp for a few years, then when I got a new bike I upgraded to Dura-Ace. It is somewhat smoother, but I would disagree that it's night and day.

One of the big things that I DON'T like is that the brake hoods are more narrow in your hand and don't feel as good for big hands. I don't have huge mitts, but they are on the large size. Feels like the difference in a properly taped tennis racket handle.

Also, cassettes are a lot more and chains just a bit more when they need to be replaced.

I won't even speak to the minimum weight savings. You'd best be climbing real mountains if you are counting grams is all I will say.

So looking back, is it worth it? Honestly no.

HillMut

@ $370 difference, I would get DA.

RudeSiggy

Excel and Competitive Cyclist (and other places I'm sure) have bulk purchasing discounts. The more you buy, the more you save, and you can customize your kit so it's a mix of Ult and DA if that's what you want. Plus, do you really need new brake calipers? New crank? A lot of that stuff could be compatible and in good shape to save some cash.

RudeSiggy

No, it's not. And that's the point. My DA is better . But mainly it's just new and I have been taking better care of it.